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Author Topic: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)  (Read 6674 times)

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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #200 on: 31 Oct 2020, 20:24 »

Global Moderator Comment Anyone looking for the posts about racism, they still exist but are now in the Racism thread in DISCUSS.
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #201 on: 31 Oct 2020, 20:39 »

I think it would be fair to say that when Clinton becomes emotional, he becomes insensitive to the feelings and emotions of those around him. We saw that when we were introduced to him, and we've seen it this week. This is exacerbated by his inebriated state, obviously. He did at one point detect Elliot's unhappiness, but he was unable to think it through and believed Elliot's denial all too readily.

The future of their friendship (and potential future relationship) will lean heavily on how they are able to talk this out the next time they meet, when Clinton is sober and both have had time to process what has happened. Hey, to be honest, encouraging the shippers is not usually my bag, but honestly, I would not catastrophise yet. We're all here to get it right, not to be right at all times. If Clinton listens and learns from this, and apologises to Elliot, then I think Elliot will forgive him.

I think, by the way, that we could all stand to increase our emotional vocabulary. When we use terms that are overly-broad , when we use terms that would more aptly be used to describe much greater crimes, when we lack the emotional intelligence to accurately describe our reaction to an event, our discussions will inevitably generate more heat than light.

It's understandable when a character reminds you of someone who has done you significant harm to condemn them in the strongest possible terms -- and I don't say this because I know that's what's happening here (I don't) but because I've seen it before. But if you give yourself a day or so to process before posting, and endeavour to prefer the concrete and specific over abstract and hyperbolic, we will all enjoy greater mutual understanding.

I have learned to do this myself. In the past, I have angrily defended characters from angry criticism - in part, as someone else cannily observed, because I unconsciously deduced that the person would also hate me if my previous actions were put under the spotlight. Knowing this about myself, I can take action to counter that tendency.

Not forgiving myself---certainly not forgetting---is one of the ways I avoid repeating past mistakes.

We must have very different understandings of what self-forgiveness is, because I don't see how it is possible to truly learn from one's past mistakes without it.
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #202 on: 31 Oct 2020, 20:52 »

What self-forgiveness means for me is changing blame into responsibility.
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #203 on: 01 Nov 2020, 01:41 »

This as pairing never worked for me, it just smacked of the author wanting to check another box.

Elliot is a low tech guy (bread making, sports, working out) and Clinton is all about AIs, not (presumably) into fitness or sports so they have nothing in common, Clinton hadn't even had any gay thoughts up until now (or has he and I missed it?)

The only way this seems plausible is that Elliot and Clinton are both so lonely and desperate they'll get off with anyone that'll have them
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #204 on: 01 Nov 2020, 01:37 »

I kinda agree with this; but on the other hand, I remarked recently that this pairing seemed inevitable, and I have not really changed my mind this week.

I mean, whither Clinton if this ship is torpedoed? How long have we been strung along with this Clinton/Elliot/Brun triangle? A couple of years?

During that time, it's been very clear that Jeph is only interested in portraying queer relationships and queer or AI storylines. So what will happen if Clinton decides he's not interested in guys after all? I can't think where Jeph would take an awkward white straight boy from there.

Clinton's journey has been pretty uneven. He started as a foil to Hannelore, quickly became a supporting actor to Claire's journey (who, like other QC characters who more recently have landed in a relationship, has been pretty well sidelined). Then became creepy again. Then became confident and heroic in what seemed to be the most heavy-handed on-the-nose bit of writing in the history of QC, not to put too fine a point on it (and which I now can't locate to save my life). And now he's back to being socially inept, any progress that he seemed to make in considering the welfare of someone other than himself seems to have been thrown out.

I wonder what lies in the future for QC. I wish Jeph would stop abandoning characters as soon as they make relationships - it's terribly self-limiting. I know I harp on this - sorry. Where are the Marten/Claire stories? Dora/Tai? Even Bubbles/Faye strips have been thin on the ground. And the May storyline, the one story that wasn't written to indulge the shippers, has magically resolved itself without May really having done much to earn it (other than finally accept charity, which I didn't find to be super satisfying because her hand was more or less forced - she's very much been a passive protagonist in that storyline).

There's always Hannelore's relationship with her mother, I guess - maybe that story will get back off the ground, who knows. But again, since it's clear that Hanners isn't interested in relationships, it seems inevitable she will remain on the sidelines as well.

And then there's also Roko's dissociative episodes, hanging there waiting for resolution (or not).

But I suspect that these are addressed at all, they will simply magically be resolved at some point like all the other interesting storylines we've seen.

*sigh*
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #205 on: 01 Nov 2020, 02:56 »

You make some good and valid points.

I'd like to see some storylines with Marten and Claire dealing with some of the realities of a trans relationship, it's got the potential for some interesting storylines but it seems like the author doesn't want to go there which is fair enough as it's his comic but if you don't want to go there then why bother bringing it up as it just makes it seem like it's another box to be checked
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #206 on: 01 Nov 2020, 03:21 »

"Forgiveness means letting go of the hope for a better past".
That's kind of the idea behind "forgive but don't forget."
That ties back to an interesting sermon I heard a few years ago on the matter, forgive them but hold them accountable.

And while neither blame nor praise will modify past events, it's important that we learn from them all the same.

You make some good and valid points.

I'd like to see some storylines with Marten and Claire dealing with some of the realities of a trans relationship, it's got the potential for some interesting storylines but it seems like the author doesn't want to go there which is fair enough as it's his comic but if you don't want to go there then why bother bringing it up as it just makes it seem like it's another box to be checked
Well, hopefully Jeph is doing research on that matter to try and portray it accurately. As I understand it, a number of long running webcomics have had some nasty falls from grace over the mishandling of subject matters or the author either going through personal issues or getting dragged into extremist views of some variety. So I can see why Jeph might be tiptoeing around that aspect of Claire and Marten's relationship.

I'm still disappointed with the obvious author breakdown happened with Dresden Codak: Dark Science (Balthazar's sudden betrayal and the next several strips after), but I'm happy the author managed to work through her personal breakdown and figured out she was trans. She is still trying to get the story back on track, but it's taking a bit to recover.

EDIT: *derp* Of course it may have no bearing simply because Jeph doesn't want it to. We've already got fully sapient synthetics, so why not? A trans woman in a happy stable relationship is more realistic afterall.
« Last Edit: 01 Nov 2020, 06:43 by Gyrre »
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #207 on: 01 Nov 2020, 05:16 »

You make some good and valid points.

I'd like to see some storylines with Marten and Claire dealing with some of the realities of a trans relationship, it's got the potential for some interesting storylines but it seems like the author doesn't want to go there which is fair enough as it's his comic but if you don't want to go there then why bother bringing it up as it just makes it seem like it's another box to be checked

Chris, we have discussed this topic repeatedly in these threads. Stop bringing it up.
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #208 on: 01 Nov 2020, 06:24 »

The idea that trans characters can only exist to fulfill some narrative function or to make a point directly related to them not being cis is deeply and intensely frustrating. Trans people are allowed to exist just as themselves. No one ever insists that a cis character has to have their cishet status be a storypoint, so why are trans characters held to that expectation? Why are they allowed to just be?
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #209 on: 01 Nov 2020, 08:47 »

Wither Clinton? Well, we have Millefeuille, who is longing for her life to become a romantic comedy...
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #210 on: 01 Nov 2020, 08:52 »

Clinton is not a nice guy

Clinton is a Nice Guy.

He turns immediately toxic and abusive the moment he doesn’t get his way. He is entitled, and an asshole.

If anyone ends up in a relationship with him, I will be genuinely worried about their safety and mental health going forward.

Honestly, I think that's a really extreme and unfair take. I don't think any of this is intentional, which doesn't change the fact that it's hurtful behavior, but it sure as hell isn't abusive or entitled. I think some people are filtering it through the lens of their own experiences with Far Worse people, and thinking it applies to Clinton. Who, frankly, is just an idiot, but hardly the type to be malicious. His 'meddling' here isn't even as bad as Claire's has been.

He's drunk, and socially inept. Neither of those are excuses for hurtful behavior, but they're factors to keep in mind, especially with how frequently alcohol consumption can result in lapses in judgement. He's certainly not a threat to anyone's safety, and canceling him over a flub like this, no matter how cringeworthy, is definitely excessive, in my view.

Honestly, I think a lot of boils down to the fact that it was a big mistake for them to have their first date at Elliot's place of work WHILE he was actually working.  Even if it was just a "test", there's no way that Elliot could give his full attention to Clinton.  And it also made it easier to treat it as a "not-date", which just skews the vibe more.

Maybe they both thought it would be a lower-stakes way of exploring the potential, but it ended up being a little too low-stakes, in that it didn't seem like either of them truly treated it like a real date, and it shows.
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #211 on: 01 Nov 2020, 10:56 »

The idea that trans characters can only exist to fulfill some narrative function or to make a point directly related to them not being cis is deeply and intensely frustrating. Trans people are allowed to exist just as themselves. No one ever insists that a cis character has to have their cishet status be a storypoint, so why are trans characters held to that expectation? Why are they allowed to just be?

Ok that's a good point I hadn't considered. I guess for me it comes down to wanting to see more of Marten as he's a character I relate most to and since he's in a relationship with a trans character I want to see where it goes

It was a big deal for both of them at the time the relationship started (and still is I'm assuming) so that's why I'd like to it addressed
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #212 on: 01 Nov 2020, 11:11 »

I kinda agree with this; but on the other hand, I remarked recently that this pairing seemed inevitable, and I have not really changed my mind this week.

I mean, whither Clinton if this ship is torpedoed? How long have we been strung along with this Clinton/Elliot/Brun triangle? A couple of years?

During that time, it's been very clear that Jeph is only interested in portraying queer relationships and queer or AI storylines. So what will happen if Clinton decides he's not interested in guys after all? I can't think where Jeph would take an awkward white straight boy from there.

Clinton's journey has been pretty uneven. He started as a foil to Hannelore, quickly became a supporting actor to Claire's journey (who, like other QC characters who more recently have landed in a relationship, has been pretty well sidelined). Then became creepy again. Then became confident and heroic in what seemed to be the most heavy-handed on-the-nose bit of writing in the history of QC, not to put too fine a point on it (and which I now can't locate to save my life). And now he's back to being socially inept, any progress that he seemed to make in considering the welfare of someone other than himself seems to have been thrown out.

I wonder what lies in the future for QC. I wish Jeph would stop abandoning characters as soon as they make relationships - it's terribly self-limiting. I know I harp on this - sorry. Where are the Marten/Claire stories? Dora/Tai? Even Bubbles/Faye strips have been thin on the ground. And the May storyline, the one story that wasn't written to indulge the shippers, has magically resolved itself without May really having done much to earn it (other than finally accept charity, which I didn't find to be super satisfying because her hand was more or less forced - she's very much been a passive protagonist in that storyline).

There's always Hannelore's relationship with her mother, I guess - maybe that story will get back off the ground, who knows. But again, since it's clear that Hanners isn't interested in relationships, it seems inevitable she will remain on the sidelines as well.

And then there's also Roko's dissociative episodes, hanging there waiting for resolution (or not).

But I suspect that these are addressed at all, they will simply magically be resolved at some point like all the other interesting storylines we've seen.

*sigh*


Wow...I have never agreed with a post on this forum more in my LIFE!

Where my TaiDora at?! You got them engaged and then the wedding plots been dangling , I wanna see more Dale/Marigold and even more Bubbles/Faye ...Clair and Marten need more spotlight too...I'm sad so much of the cast basically gets put on a bus to a peace conference whenever they get another.
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #213 on: 01 Nov 2020, 12:15 »

As poorly conceived this meet was, there's much for them each to consider. And is tighter storying than recently has been.
especially after she indicated she needed to get back to work.
I think this is the valid point. It's not about the work, but about there being other things to do. But Clinton didn't demand. Brun could've refused or deferred.
As much I might dislike it, some businesses care about false pleasantry, but if Clinton understood Brun disregards such expectations, it'd be against only such employer.
treating this exploratory outting as a checkbox with steps to speed through [...] less about Brun or Elliot than about Clinton crossing his Ts and dotting his Is.
You said it yourself, Brun's hurrying back to work. And Clinton's hurrying to the toilet. There's not much time for much more. He could've waited for when there's more time---but what's wrong with quick? Ask the question, get an answer; then consider it at his own pace---or not get the answer: let them consider it at their own pace, answering a next time.
immediately divulges what should be a personal
Yeah. Terrible. Too bad it happens so often. At least Clinton's inconfidence is patent.
Not forgiving myself---certainly not forgetting---is one of the ways I avoid repeating past mistakes.
We must have very different understandings of what self-forgiveness is, because I don't see how it is possible to truly learn from one's past mistakes without it.
Forgiveness is the committment to not request restoration. It helps cease myopic pressure to restore earlier than effective, but, especially intrapersonally, such pressure with me is naught, so it'd only convolute. It's about keeping the books strait, so to speak. Balancing said `books' neatly requires correcting the root error, then tidying it's instances---like repaying interest after the principal's extinguished.
What meant you by truly learn?
any progress that he seemed to make in considering the welfare of someone other than himself seems to have been thrown out.
Well.. no. It's coming in phases. First: naught; then intense work towards, then rest---seeming regression---focus on other things, until motive returns,,---is how I learn; like a sum of sine and hyperbola.
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #214 on: 01 Nov 2020, 12:53 »

This as pairing never worked for me, it just smacked of the author wanting to check another box.

Elliot is a low tech guy (bread making, sports, working out) and Clinton is all about AIs, not (presumably) into fitness or sports so they have nothing in common, Clinton hadn't even had any gay thoughts up until now (or has he and I missed it?)

The only way this seems plausible is that Elliot and Clinton are both so lonely and desperate they'll get off with anyone that'll have them

Chris, that's a well taken point about how little they have in common.

Attraction doesn't depend on that but I think there's research that relationship success correlates with having common attitudes and interests.
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #215 on: 01 Nov 2020, 14:34 »

I actually think that while Marten/Dora wasn't a stable relationship, it was one of the more interesting and realistic ones. This is all I will say on that matter to avoid another Dorapocalypse.

The other couples are almost fantasy in their stability. Fights are rare, minor, and easily and quickly resolved. While I don't want to see any catastrophic breakups, it would certainly add a little intrigue to the comic if there were a bigger dispute.

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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #216 on: 01 Nov 2020, 17:09 »

I actually think that while Marten/Dora wasn't a stable relationship, it was one of the more interesting and realistic ones. This is all I will say on that matter to avoid another Dorapocalypse.

The other couples are almost fantasy in their stability. Fights are rare, minor, and easily and quickly resolved. While I don't want to see any catastrophic breakups, it would certainly add a little intrigue to the comic if there were a bigger dispute.

I blame Hollywood. There are so few stable/healthy relationships in movies and so SO many examples of sequels where the pair that get together in tbe first movie get broken up off screen just so they can retread the romantic subplot. Usually much to the detriment of the narrative.

Are there any examples other than The Mummy and The Mummy Returns where that doesn't happen?
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #217 on: 01 Nov 2020, 17:23 »

I actually think that while Marten/Dora wasn't a stable relationship, it was one of the more interesting and realistic ones. This is all I will say on that matter to avoid another Dorapocalypse.

The other couples are almost fantasy in their stability. Fights are rare, minor, and easily and quickly resolved. While I don't want to see any catastrophic breakups, it would certainly add a little intrigue to the comic if there were a bigger dispute.

Not only that, if there ever is some kind of non-trivial fight or conflict, then the overwhelming majority of forumites assume that the relationship is over.

Real relationships are not all sunshine and flowers. There are fights and we cause genuine hurt.

Long-lasting relationships are made through the real work required to deal with those moments.

What meant you by truly learn?

Great question.

To truly learn from your mistakes is to understand yourself well enough to know why it happened and what you need to do to be a better person. That kind of necessary work is an act of self love. If you can't forgive yourself, then lack that fundamental prerequisite.

If you believe you did wrong because you're a bad person, then of course you won't be able to forgive yourself. If instead you focus on the behaviour, then you can believe that are able to change your behaviour in the future. To fail to forgive yourself is to believe that you can't do better, so of course you won't. Simply telling yourself you're a bad person isn't understanding yourself, and it's not truly learning from your mistakes.

Accountability isn't refusal to forgive yourself. Accountability is work.
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #218 on: 01 Nov 2020, 17:27 »


I blame Hollywood. There are so few stable/healthy relationships in movies and so SO many examples of sequels where the pair that get together in tbe first movie get broken up off screen just so they can retread the romantic subplot. Usually much to the detriment of the narrative.

Are there any examples other than The Mummy and The Mummy Returns where that doesn't happen?

That is pretty much what I see in my social circle as well. People get into a relationship and it just... comes along. Sure, there are some squabbles and disagreements here and there, but for the most part things tend to be quite harmonious. Why does it have to be difficult to be real?
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #219 on: 01 Nov 2020, 17:36 »

The lack of conflict is a big part of what turns me off about Bubbles and Faye (yes, I know this will make me super unpopular). I’ve worked in family business and for couples before. It is not easy—even in situations couples are totally chill, communicate well and have a decent skill managing. I am not buying for a second Faye and Bub are realistic. Sure we have a robot who’s needs are possibly less $ since she doesn’t need food or as many outfits, but they are always talking debt—and to be so chill about it seems way out of character for Faye—even if she is doing therapy and such.

I am totally happy with the other happy couples’ dynamics, but would still like to see them more. Even when you are in a fantastic relationship, arguments happen and life can be challenging. That is where major growth can happen in a relationship and individually...because life changes—even if you are child free. I am guessing, though, we’ll see this more in the future for the characters. Real life seems exciting enough right now... I suppose it is a bit of a little break not to read a mostly happy strip that references it (though I appreciate a few who have managed to pull it off well).
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #220 on: 01 Nov 2020, 18:03 »


I blame Hollywood. There are so few stable/healthy relationships in movies and so SO many examples of sequels where the pair that get together in tbe first movie get broken up off screen just so they can retread the romantic subplot. Usually much to the detriment of the narrative.

Are there any examples other than The Mummy and The Mummy Returns where that doesn't happen?

That is pretty much what I see in my social circle as well. People get into a relationship and it just... comes along. Sure, there are some squabbles and disagreements here and there, but for the most part things tend to be quite harmonious. Why does it have to be difficult to be real?
For me, it's the lack of those squabbles and disagreements that make it unrealistic. Two for Dora/Tai (in over two thousand strips), one for Marten/Claire, none for Faye/Bubbles, one for Steve/Cosette (I don't really count them as a major pairing), one for Dale/Marigold. I have citations if you want them. The couples in QC agree on pretty much everything.

To be fair, I have literally zero relationship experience, so I'm not exactly an expert on this. Also, regardless of what happens on this front, the comic is still addictively fantastic and I'll read it anyway.
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #221 on: 01 Nov 2020, 18:23 »

That is a good point. Then again, 'minor relationship squabbles' do not make for very entertaining comics, which might be one reason why Jeph doesn't portray them? That, and the sheer amount of storylines he has going on:

- Dora/Tai wedding
- Claire's jobhunting
- May's new chassis
- Roko's dissociative episodes
- Clinton/Elliot/Brun's romantic shenanigans
- and maybe some more that I can't think off right now
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #222 on: 01 Nov 2020, 18:36 »

To be fair, I have literally zero relationship experience, so I'm not exactly an expert on this. Also, regardless of what happens on this front, the comic is still addictively fantastic and I'll read it anyway.

They can be messy, but that's 'cos they involve people, and that can always be a total disaster.  I have been single for quite some time, but I only regret one past relationship, since she turned out to be a cheating psycho hosebeast who tried to sabotage my life for well over a year after we split up.  My other exes, even those who were unfaithful were at least, at their core, good people, and I'm rather sad that I lost contact with most of them.
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #223 on: 01 Nov 2020, 19:09 »

Hohoooo.... Minor relationship squabbles. Oh no. If you all believe that is all that happens when you settle down you have been blessed or lack experience.

Even good relationships have fireworks—unless the two people getting together are magically perfectly well adjusted and mature from well-adjusted mature parents, siblings. Oh nooo. Most people are fabulous messes—and crazy childhoods/family dynamics can make dating look like a walk in the park compared to cohabitating or marrying.

That is a good point. Then again, 'minor relationship squabbles' do not make for very entertaining comics, which might be one reason why Jeph doesn't portray them? That, and the sheer amount of storylines he has going on:

- Dora/Tai wedding
- Claire's jobhunting
- May's new chassis
- Roko's dissociative episodes
- Clinton/Elliot/Brun's romantic shenanigans
- and maybe some more that I can't think off right now
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #224 on: 01 Nov 2020, 19:20 »

What meant you by truly learn?
Great question.
To truly learn from your mistakes is to understand yourself well enough to know why it happened and what you need to do to be a better person. That kind of necessary work is an act of self love. If you can't forgive yourself, then lack that fundamental prerequisite.
If you believe you did wrong because you're a bad person, then of course you won't be able to forgive yourself. If instead you focus on the behaviour, then you can believe that are able to change your behaviour in the future. To fail to forgive yourself is to believe that you can't do better, so of course you won't. Simply telling yourself you're a bad person isn't understanding yourself, and it's not truly learning from your mistakes.
Accountability isn't refusal to forgive yourself. Accountability is work.
Perhaps we have different conceptions of accountability, forgiveness---those mine are opposite the other: self-forgiveness, as I understand it, is the giving-up, the refusal to do better---but neither case is necessarily from considering oneself bad: one might simply acknowledge a challenge as too difficult, or with better possibilities available---for such cases, I defer judgement 'til judgement day: for now---in whatever `now' they be---they're simply on account, awaiting when correction may more effective be.
And I'm not sure how self-love enters it---self-understanding, sure, and acceptance: what I am, how I am,, all my behaviours---but I not need love myself to know I can, how, to do better. I need only examine, adjust myself, behaviour, to better.
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Farideh

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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #225 on: 01 Nov 2020, 19:28 »

Hohoooo.... Minor relationship squabbles. Oh no. If you all believe that is all that happens when you settle down you have been blessed or lack experience.

Even good relationships have fireworks—unless the two people getting together are magically perfectly well adjusted and mature from well-adjusted mature parents, siblings. Oh nooo. Most people are fabulous messes—and crazy childhoods/family dynamics can make dating look like a walk in the park compared to cohabitating or marrying.
Both, in my case. I've only had one relationship in my life, and it's still on-going. In a year's time I will have been involved with my husband for half my life. So yes, in many ways I am inexperienced.
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #226 on: 01 Nov 2020, 19:28 »

Perhaps we have different conceptions of accountability, forgiveness---those mine are opposite the other: self-forgiveness, as I understand it, is the giving-up, the refusal to do better---but neither case is necessarily from considering oneself bad: one might simply acknowledge a challenge as too difficult, or with better possibilities available---for such cases, I defer judgement 'til judgement day: for now---in whatever `now' they be---they're simply on account, awaiting when correction may more effective be.
And I'm not sure how self-love enters it---self-understanding, sure, and acceptance: what I am, how I am,, all my behaviours---but I not need love myself to know I can, how, to do better. I need only examine, adjust myself, behaviour, to better.

Yes, we clearly do have different conceptions of forgiveness. Forgiveness is letting go of, as IICIH puts it, the hope for a better past - it's not giving up hope for a better future.

Doing the work to become a better person is self-love. Literally, that is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #227 on: 01 Nov 2020, 19:46 »

Hohoooo.... Minor relationship squabbles. Oh no. If you all believe that is all that happens when you settle down you have been blessed or lack experience.

Even good relationships have fireworks—unless the two people getting together are magically perfectly well adjusted and mature from well-adjusted mature parents, siblings. Oh nooo. Most people are fabulous messes—and crazy childhoods/family dynamics can make dating look like a walk in the park compared to cohabitating or marrying.
Both, in my case. I've only had one relationship in my life, and it's still on-going. In a year's time I will have been involved with my husband for half my life. So yes, in many ways I am inexperienced.

It sounds like lucky, too—if things have been so chill. I have known too many who did not have things end that way—even in the good relationships.
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #228 on: 01 Nov 2020, 21:06 »

Chill? Not always. We have had many ups and downs, and fortunately have managed to come out the other end together.
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #229 on: 01 Nov 2020, 21:53 »

Doing the work to become a better person is self-love.
Of all the meanings of---and overused it is, the word---``love,'' an endeavour as dry error correction, scarcely would, if ever, come to mind.
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #230 on: 01 Nov 2020, 23:12 »

It's overused because, to be concise to a fault, words are cheap.

Love is something you do, not something you feel. True love is hard work.
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #231 on: 02 Nov 2020, 06:33 »

[sigh] It'll be sad if the first m/m relationship in QC is just an awkward fizzle.  Such potential, such disappointment.  [crosses fingers]

It's not the first M/M relationship in the QC-verse, since we already saw Marten's dad get married to Maurice.
I forgot about them!  We don't really get to see their relationship like Claire and Marten or Bubs and Faye, though; I definitely don't think of them as being part of the main crew.

I highly doubt that this is the end for any romance between Elliot and Clinton. Jeph is very big on making his characters grow and evolve, so I can see a lot of talking and discussion happening with those two in the future.
Clinton has left with very positive feelings about the interaction with Elliot, and Elliot has some issues with it, so I can see this being a ripe set up for a healthy discussion and resolution leading to a first date [more finger-crossing].  The dynamic between the two of them will be different no matter what events ensue following this encounter.  If it ends up being uncomfortable, we get realistic interpersonal drama plotlines; if it ends up being REALLY comfortable, we get an E/C date plotline.  Win/Win!

Seeing Elliott sad just makes me sad--poor "big sweet goober." 
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #232 on: 03 Nov 2020, 01:53 »

I think this whole situation will end with elliot being a bit more open about his emotions, a somewhat confused Brun, and a hard reality check for Clinton.
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #233 on: 03 Nov 2020, 17:06 »

About Faye and Bubbles, a question occurred to me today:

What Is Bubbles' favorite song by Toto?
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #234 on: 03 Nov 2020, 23:28 »

What is this "Toto" you're speaking of?
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #235 on: 04 Nov 2020, 00:10 »

I blame Hollywood. There are so few stable/healthy relationships in movies and so SO many examples of sequels where the pair that get together in tbe first movie get broken up off screen just so they can retread the romantic subplot. Usually much to the detriment of the narrative.

Are there any examples other than The Mummy and The Mummy Returns where that doesn't happen?

Why, The Matrix. Though, as we all know, there was only one movie.

Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure.

Star Wars.

Shrek.

Theres not many movies which have followups in the first place ... and if they do, they often dont have such romances in the first place. On Terminator, the man is killed before the end, and the second movie has no romance. Alien, first one has no romance, second and third one the man gets killed between movies. Bourne, the romance gets killed early in the second movie.

But this is definitely done often, and the worst example for this is actually Futurama. Many times they start a Fry and Leela romance in one episode only to have it completely wiped from everyones memory in the next episode, with no explanation whatsoever. Thats frankly very annoying.



[...] I've only had one relationship in my life, and it's still on-going. [...]
I AM SO ENVIOUS !!! :-\

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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #236 on: 04 Nov 2020, 23:13 »

Doing the work to become a better person is self-love.
Of all the meanings of---and overused it is, the word---``love,'' an endeavour as dry error correction, scarcely would, if ever, come to mind.

"Love people just the way they are, and too much to let them stay that way."

It's presumptuous when applied to other people but as an attitude toward self it makes sense to me.
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #237 on: 04 Nov 2020, 23:20 »

I am infinity grateful that my partner did not simply let me be the person I was over a decade ago.
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #238 on: 05 Nov 2020, 00:02 »

But this is definitely done often, and the worst example for this is actually Futurama. Many times they start a Fry and Leela romance in one episode only to have it completely wiped from everyones memory in the next episode, with no explanation whatsoever. Thats frankly very annoying.
Oh whow drat - I missed an important "IMHO" somewhere in there.

Probably originally wrote it then rewrote that part so often it somehow ended up getting deleted.

I really hope we get May next week...
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #239 on: 05 Nov 2020, 01:09 »

Me too. Anything, really, other than a week of on-the-nose dialogue with characters explaining their feelings for us. Dull as ditchwater.
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #240 on: 05 Nov 2020, 03:39 »

Agreed, Tova. Leaving quite aside the fact that no doubt some good storylines could result from the current setup, I feel it's a shame that Jeph seems to be going quite so far out of his way to thumb his nose at the individual who e-mailed him complaining about the comic's relationships and annoyed him sufficiently to make him change the entire Brun/ Clinton/ Elliot scenario he (apparently) originally planned (according to BenRG here: https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php?topic=34755)
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #241 on: 05 Nov 2020, 20:38 »

I blame Hollywood. There are so few stable/healthy relationships in movies and so SO many examples of sequels where the pair that get together in tbe first movie get broken up off screen just so they can retread the romantic subplot. Usually much to the detriment of the narrative.

Are there any examples other than The Mummy and The Mummy Returns where that doesn't happen?

Why, The Matrix. Though, as we all know, there was only one movie.

Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure.

Star Wars.

Shrek.

Theres not many movies which have followups in the first place ... and if they do, they often dont have such romances in the first place. On Terminator, the man is killed before the end, and the second movie has no romance. Alien, first one has no romance, second and third one the man gets killed between movies. Bourne, the romance gets killed early in the second movie.

But this is definitely done often, and the worst example for this is actually Futurama. Many times they start a Fry and Leela romance in one episode only to have it completely wiped from everyones memory in the next episode, with no explanation whatsoever. Thats frankly very annoying.



[...] I've only had one relationship in my life, and it's still on-going. [...]
I AM SO ENVIOUS !!! :-\

Specifically in regards to the romantic subplot from the first movie in relation to how it's handled in the sequels. Though, yes Shrek did a pretty good job now that you mention it.
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #242 on: 06 Nov 2020, 06:29 »

What Is Bubbles' favorite song by Toto?
I'll nominate "Don't Stop Me Now".
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #243 on: 06 Nov 2020, 08:06 »

I always thought that was by Queen.
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #244 on: 06 Nov 2020, 08:11 »

I always thought that was by Queen.
It was and is.
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #245 on: 06 Nov 2020, 08:14 »

About Faye and Bubbles, a question occurred to me today:

What Is Bubbles' favorite song by Toto?

Perhaps one that's arguably about a werewolf searching for a cure for his affliction?
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Re: WCDT strips 4381-4385 (Oct 26th to Oct 30th 2020)
« Reply #246 on: 06 Nov 2020, 15:38 »

A brief Google tells me Toto also have a song by that name.
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