THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)

  • 04 Oct 2024, 17:07
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Poll

What else about Marigold's family will we discover?

Mom and Aurelia are besties from childhood.
- 3 (16.7%)
Mom and Aurelia are sworn enemies from childhood.
- 1 (5.6%)
Dad knows Claire and Clinton's dad - he hated him.
- 2 (11.1%)
Dad knows Mr. Augustus - he was his boss.
- 1 (5.6%)
Dad "knows" Marten's mom.
- 0 (0%)
Mom "knows' Marten's mom.
- 4 (22.2%)
Neither parent knows anyone else in Northampton.
- 2 (11.1%)
Mom and Hannelore's mom were sorrority sisters.
- 1 (5.6%)
Something completely different.
- 4 (22.2%)

Total Members Voted: 18


Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)  (Read 13667 times)

jwhouk

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11,022
  • The Valley of the Sun
WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« on: 13 Mar 2022, 09:24 »

Here ya go.
Logged
"Character is what you are in the Dark." - D.L. Moody
There is no joke that can be made online without someone being offended by it.
Life's too short to be ashamed of how you were born.
Just another Joe like 46

Farideh

  • Global Moderator
  • Duck attack survivor
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,678
  • La li lu le lo
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #1 on: 13 Mar 2022, 12:47 »

This is very bright and early 😊
Logged
I am not hiding. I am maintaining a respectful distance.

jwhouk

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11,022
  • The Valley of the Sun
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #2 on: 13 Mar 2022, 18:27 »

Daylight saving time? Who needs it when we have all the daylight we need? :D

Marigold turns into more of a goblin the more we find out about her past...
Logged
"Character is what you are in the Dark." - D.L. Moody
There is no joke that can be made online without someone being offended by it.
Life's too short to be ashamed of how you were born.
Just another Joe like 46

Farideh

  • Global Moderator
  • Duck attack survivor
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,678
  • La li lu le lo
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #3 on: 13 Mar 2022, 18:57 »

It's funny how Marbear transitions from 'Awww, Dad!' to 'Arrrgh, DA-HAD!' in the space of 1 panel.
Logged
I am not hiding. I am maintaining a respectful distance.

Gyrre

  • Born in a Nalgene bottle
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,288
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #4 on: 13 Mar 2022, 20:45 »

D'awww!

Also, ah dangit! My poll idea was to ask the forumites which of the following they identified as; goblin, gremlin, kobold, pixie, gnome, or other.
Logged
Quote
a real-ass gaddam sword
Quote
"Broken swords and dragon bones scattered on the way back home."

Too stubborn to die, just like the rest of my family.

Farideh

  • Global Moderator
  • Duck attack survivor
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,678
  • La li lu le lo
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #5 on: 13 Mar 2022, 21:03 »

There's always next week!
Logged
I am not hiding. I am maintaining a respectful distance.

traroth

  • Vagina Manifesto
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 687
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #6 on: 14 Mar 2022, 00:06 »

Look at Marigold's father denying the importance of luck in success...

Meritocracy is a myth.
Logged
"Courage is freedom and freedom is happiness" --Thucydides

BenRG

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,861
  • Boldly Going From The Back Seat!
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #7 on: 14 Mar 2022, 00:23 »

From panels 3 and 4, May was just convincing herself that Marigold was kind of cute but suddenly wasn't so sure.

As a broader lesson from this strip, I wonder how many thing we did more or less by accident that, for some reason, those who know us are assuming was just us being cunning?
Logged
~~~~

They call me BenRG... But I don't know why!

Perfectly Reasonable

  • Bling blang blong blung
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,070
  • Be nice to everybody. So you're better than them.
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #8 on: 14 Mar 2022, 04:42 »

Am trying to picture Marigold as a tween, playing soccer.

( but whos gonna kill those spiders )
Logged
What would I do if I were smart?
I guess first I'd stop taking the stupid pills.

Mr_Rose

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,822
  • Head Canon arms dealer
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #9 on: 14 Mar 2022, 05:57 »

Look at Marigold's father denying the importance of luck in success...

Meritocracy is a myth.
Eh it’s both. Seriously. You can work as hard as you like and never get a break and you can get breaks left and right but if you don’t work hard to exploit any break you get you will never advance on either path.
Logged
"I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." - Charles Babbage

shanejayell

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,524
    • Church of Yuri
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #10 on: 14 Mar 2022, 06:54 »

Jeph should do a 'Nocturnal Dumpster Goblin' t-shirt.

dutchrvl

  • Bling blang blong blung
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,152
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #11 on: 14 Mar 2022, 07:07 »

Look at Marigold's father denying the importance of luck in success...

Meritocracy is a myth.

I don't see him denying the importance of luck at all. To me it sounds like he's telling Marigold that she shouldn't dismiss her success as only happening by accident, which is the right thing to do IMO.

Some degree of luck almost always plays a role with any kind of success, but I think nobody becomes successful at anything purely by luck. Therefore it is okay to take at least some credit as to what you managed to achieve. Good dad to build up his daughter's self-confidence.
Logged

traroth

  • Vagina Manifesto
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 687
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #12 on: 14 Mar 2022, 08:26 »

Look at Marigold's father denying the importance of luck in success...

Meritocracy is a myth.
Eh it’s both. Seriously. You can work as hard as you like and never get a break and you can get breaks left and right but if you don’t work hard to exploit any break you get you will never advance on either path.

That's what I mean. Luck is a huge part of success, and of wht is left, work is not the most important either. Connections, for example, play a key role (I'm not saying it is relevant to the comic, though).
Logged
"Courage is freedom and freedom is happiness" --Thucydides

sitnspin

  • Born in a Nalgene bottle
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,199
  • Amoral lust machine
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #13 on: 14 Mar 2022, 08:43 »

Connections are part of the luck factor.
Logged
I'm a simple girl, all I want from life is to drink the blood of my enemies from their bleached hollowed skulls.
@syleegrrl

hedgie

  • Methuselah's mentor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,382
  • No Pasarán!
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #14 on: 14 Mar 2022, 11:29 »

Both blind luck, and hard work, in my experience. Often, maintaining connections can involve a bit of effort, especially for those who have social difficulties. I know that I have hurt myself career-wise by avoiding people I work with while off the clock, and not bothering at all after they or I leave.
Logged
"The highest treason in the USA is to say Americans are not loved, no matter where they are, no matter what they are doing there." -- Vonnegut

Gyrre

  • Born in a Nalgene bottle
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,288
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #15 on: 14 Mar 2022, 13:02 »

There's always next week!

Very true.

Connections are part of the luck factor.
Reminds me of a post I saw recently about the wild things people raised with money will ask other people. The post concluded with someone sardonically posting, "Have you tried being born into money? It's easy! I did it all by myself."

Meritocracy is one of those things that sounds great on paper, but the praxis is almost impossible.
Logged
Quote
a real-ass gaddam sword
Quote
"Broken swords and dragon bones scattered on the way back home."

Too stubborn to die, just like the rest of my family.

TV4Fun

  • Balloon animal serial killer
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 98
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #16 on: 14 Mar 2022, 18:48 »

Comic. Jeph has definitely not been reading our comments 😅.
Logged

Farideh

  • Global Moderator
  • Duck attack survivor
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,678
  • La li lu le lo
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #17 on: 14 Mar 2022, 19:40 »

Cue Markiplier yelling "THE LORE!"
Logged
I am not hiding. I am maintaining a respectful distance.

shanejayell

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,524
    • Church of Yuri
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #18 on: 14 Mar 2022, 21:03 »

Robots dreaming intrigues me. WHY, especially.

BenRG

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,861
  • Boldly Going From The Back Seat!
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #19 on: 14 Mar 2022, 23:55 »

I think that dream is a kind of flashback to the worse days at the convenience store. One way or another, May is well rid of that phase of her life!

Robots dreaming intrigues me. WHY, especially.

Basically the same reason as us and even a similar mechanism - the sensory processing parts of the brain reacting to short term memories being sent to long-term storage.
Logged
~~~~

They call me BenRG... But I don't know why!

Gyrre

  • Born in a Nalgene bottle
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,288
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #20 on: 15 Mar 2022, 05:23 »

I think that dream is a kind of flashback to the worse days at the convenience store. One way or another, May is well rid of that phase of her life!

Robots dreaming intrigues me. WHY, especially.

Basically the same reason as us and even a similar mechanism - the sensory processing parts of the brain reacting to short term memories being sent to long-term storage.

Doubly so in this case as it's been stated in universe that these AI's mental substrate functions in much akin to that of our own squishy brains.

I can relate on the recurring work nightmare dreams, too. Occasionally even now, I'll be haunted and daunted by the clack clack clacking of ceramic plates and bowls at the end of a plastic segmented blue conveyor belt (I haven't worked that job in just shy of a decade).
Logged
Quote
a real-ass gaddam sword
Quote
"Broken swords and dragon bones scattered on the way back home."

Too stubborn to die, just like the rest of my family.

Perfectly Reasonable

  • Bling blang blong blung
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,070
  • Be nice to everybody. So you're better than them.
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #21 on: 15 Mar 2022, 07:17 »

There is no such thing as big evil boob demons.
Logged
What would I do if I were smart?
I guess first I'd stop taking the stupid pills.

hedgie

  • Methuselah's mentor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,382
  • No Pasarán!
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #22 on: 15 Mar 2022, 09:06 »

Clearly, you don’t play FFXIV:




Edit: There seem to be three kinds of monsters in that game, too adorable to kill, awe-inspiring (like the various dragon designs), and “Lovecraft was an amateur” level horrors like the boss with dozens of boobs.
« Last Edit: 16 Mar 2022, 07:38 by hedgie »
Logged
"The highest treason in the USA is to say Americans are not loved, no matter where they are, no matter what they are doing there." -- Vonnegut

Wingy

  • Asleep in the boner patch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 789
  • Is my cape on right?
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #23 on: 15 Mar 2022, 09:49 »

There is no such thing as big evil boob demons.
The way May describes that, my minds eye sees a giant boob, nipple at the apex, with eyes and mouths on it like a Christmas tree.  I'm waiting with bated breath for a picture of this stream...  Primarily because my rational mind is saying "That can't be right.".
« Last Edit: 15 Mar 2022, 10:08 by Wingy »
Logged
This space intentionally left almost blank.

Ghanima Atreides

  • Balloon animal serial killer
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 93
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #24 on: 15 Mar 2022, 12:03 »

Sounds to me like May wants to be a Daemonette (Slaanesh approved!  :evil: )
Logged
Strange is the night where black stars rise,
And strange moons circle through the skies,
But stranger still is
Lost Carcosa.

Perfectly Reasonable

  • Bling blang blong blung
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,070
  • Be nice to everybody. So you're better than them.
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #25 on: 15 Mar 2022, 16:39 »

'tail with a sword' made me think of Orochi.

{ now if the tail had a broom on the end )

We could ask the kids she broomed out of the shop about the big evil boob demon.
I will now be watching the fanart thread closely. Rule 34, you know.

« Last Edit: 15 Mar 2022, 16:47 by Perfectly Reasonable »
Logged
What would I do if I were smart?
I guess first I'd stop taking the stupid pills.

TV4Fun

  • Balloon animal serial killer
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 98
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #26 on: 15 Mar 2022, 16:42 »

Robots dreaming intrigues me. WHY, especially.
Perhaps similar to human dreaming, it serves as a way to refresh and sort through old memories and to keep the (robotic equivalent of the) visual cortex active so it doesn't get taken over by other parts of the brain.
Logged

Y

  • Curry sauce
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 256
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #27 on: 15 Mar 2022, 18:54 »

New comic. I was a bit anxious when I saw the comic title appear on my rss plugin.

I watch a couple of streamers, and when they have an argument, chat uses the the phrase "Is this the end of the (group name)?" and sometimes picked up by one of the streamers with "this was the last (group name) stream".

Logged

Farideh

  • Global Moderator
  • Duck attack survivor
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,678
  • La li lu le lo
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #28 on: 15 Mar 2022, 19:54 »

This sounds like the kind of joke that my husband and I would've made when we were engaged.
Logged
I am not hiding. I am maintaining a respectful distance.

Gyrre

  • Born in a Nalgene bottle
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,288
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #29 on: 15 Mar 2022, 20:34 »

I may not be the sharpest knife in the Caesar when it comes to social interactions [1], but I'm pretty sure I've got friends who'd do this if they ever changed thrir stance on marriage.

[1]obligatory OSP Blue quote for the Ides of March

EDIT typo correction. Feels like my wrist is Caesar and the senators are stabbing it.
Logged
Quote
a real-ass gaddam sword
Quote
"Broken swords and dragon bones scattered on the way back home."

Too stubborn to die, just like the rest of my family.

St.Clair

  • 1-800-SCABIES
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 898
  • not actually a saint
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #30 on: 15 Mar 2022, 23:55 »

Incidentally and FYI, every month has ides; it just means "middle".  But only one had a famous general/politician get stabbed on 'em, and then plays got written about it.
Logged

BenRG

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,861
  • Boldly Going From The Back Seat!
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #31 on: 16 Mar 2022, 00:04 »

The point is, Claire, that you don't know and that is at least to be supposed to be the joke.

Ever notice that what is funny to some people just causes distress in others? I learned that a decade ago and had to retire some of what I thought were my funniest routines!
Logged
~~~~

They call me BenRG... But I don't know why!

Farideh

  • Global Moderator
  • Duck attack survivor
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,678
  • La li lu le lo
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #32 on: 16 Mar 2022, 00:14 »

Humor is very subjective indeed.
Logged
I am not hiding. I am maintaining a respectful distance.

Mr_Rose

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,822
  • Head Canon arms dealer
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #33 on: 16 Mar 2022, 03:28 »

The real question in my mind is will they keep doing this bit after the wedding? Because that would probably actually be funnier.
Logged
"I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." - Charles Babbage

shanejayell

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,524
    • Church of Yuri
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #34 on: 16 Mar 2022, 04:53 »

Awww, that was cute.

keithcurtis

  • Plantmonster
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #35 on: 16 Mar 2022, 08:30 »

In our house, the standard joke like that is, "You've ruined Christmas!". This can even be said in July.
Logged

ctishman

  • Not quite a lurker
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #36 on: 16 Mar 2022, 08:33 »

Is this Loss?
Logged

TV4Fun

  • Balloon animal serial killer
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 98
Logged

Raptorofwar

  • Plantmonster
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #38 on: 16 Mar 2022, 15:23 »

I love them to bits.
Logged
Life is hard. Then you die. Then they throw dirt in your face. Then the worms eat you. Be grateful it happens in that order.
-David Gerrold

Near Lurker

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,642
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #39 on: 16 Mar 2022, 18:10 »

I thought one of the primary selling points of the dark side was the cookies.
Logged
After seventeen years, once again, sort of a lurker.  (he/him)

Mr_Rose

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,822
  • Head Canon arms dealer
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #40 on: 16 Mar 2022, 19:06 »

I thought one of the primary selling points of the dark side was the cookies.
It’s that they have cookies. Not that they are any good. It’s like “I’d buy that for a dollar!” – a great marketing slogan.
Logged
"I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." - Charles Babbage

Farideh

  • Global Moderator
  • Duck attack survivor
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,678
  • La li lu le lo
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #41 on: 16 Mar 2022, 19:09 »

I was a regular Girl Scout. Wish I'd had the option to be a Goth one instead.
Logged
I am not hiding. I am maintaining a respectful distance.

Baz_Yat

  • Emoticontraindication
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 52
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #42 on: 16 Mar 2022, 20:16 »

I was a regular Girl Scout. Wish I'd had the option to be a Goth one instead.
I was, briefly, in the British boy scouts. I think I'd have wanted to be a Goth Scout instead too...
Logged

sitnspin

  • Born in a Nalgene bottle
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,199
  • Amoral lust machine
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #43 on: 16 Mar 2022, 20:22 »

To be fair, if they had met years ago it would have been before Dora's therapy and subsequent emotional growth so they likely wouldn't have worked out. It's much better that they met when they did.
Logged
I'm a simple girl, all I want from life is to drink the blood of my enemies from their bleached hollowed skulls.
@syleegrrl

Gyrre

  • Born in a Nalgene bottle
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,288
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #44 on: 16 Mar 2022, 20:28 »

Incidentally and FYI, every month has ides; it just means "middle".  But only one had a famous general/politician get stabbed on 'em, and then plays got written about it.

And it's a tumblr holiday.

[I've been on since 2011. They'll have to burn me off like a tick.]
Logged
Quote
a real-ass gaddam sword
Quote
"Broken swords and dragon bones scattered on the way back home."

Too stubborn to die, just like the rest of my family.

Near Lurker

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,642
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #45 on: 16 Mar 2022, 20:58 »

...I didn't even know Tumblr existed in 2011.
Logged
After seventeen years, once again, sort of a lurker.  (he/him)

DaiJB

  • The German Chancellory building
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 450
  • Utterly clueless.
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #46 on: 16 Mar 2022, 21:36 »

These two are cute together.

And I want to see the shorts!   :-D


edit: Oh yes, the poll - And now for "something completely different"...Marigold's Dad used to be a lumberjack...
« Last Edit: 16 Mar 2022, 21:52 by DaiJB »
Logged
"This fellow... he picks up this tiny bird in his hands and carries its quivering little body across this busy junction -  and feeds it to his cat.
Life's like that; a complex texture of conflicting moralities. " 

Norman Clegg, Last of the Summer Wine

TV4Fun

  • Balloon animal serial killer
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 98
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #47 on: 16 Mar 2022, 22:19 »

"unsupervised night canoeing" is the strangest euphemism I've ever heard.
Logged

shanejayell

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,524
    • Church of Yuri
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #48 on: 17 Mar 2022, 04:19 »

Happy St Paddy's Day, too.

traroth

  • Vagina Manifesto
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 687
Re: WCDT strips 4741-4745 (14-18 March 2022)
« Reply #49 on: 17 Mar 2022, 05:52 »

Connections are part of the luck factor.

At least a big part of it.
Logged
"Courage is freedom and freedom is happiness" --Thucydides
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up