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[SeanBateman]

I hate the whole mainstream/not mainstream idea, I must say. There's hardly any telling if there's any line, if there's any line to begin with. Everything's music, there's good and there's bad, and that's all I need. In fact, I'm way more uncomfortable with bands desperately trying not to be mainstream, than bands that don't care either way, and just make music.

Actually, there's no objective good and bad music either. There's no truth. There's no definite answers. There's only subjective opinions filtered through societal influences.

[MysteriumTremendum]

There is no spoon.

[SeanBateman]

You're an idiot. I was being serious and you fucked it up with a shitty pop culture reference. Go read Rorty and come back when you're older.

[Johnny C]

8====D

Let's try and focus, kay guys?

Anyways, Our Lady Peace is decent, and Kanye West's pretty damn good, too. There. Mainstream people who I think are good. Not hard.

[Merkava]

Modest Mouse. In their defence, I read in an interview with Isaac Brock that they did a lot less drugs while making "Good News" than their other albums. Hence its more mainstream sound.

Modest Mouse isn't experimental.  Also, Isaac Brock is a twat.  I was reading (oh shit, shame shame shame) some interview with him in Spin (I was bored and it was on my friend's floor) and he was dissing on VIvisectVI by Skinny Puppy.  Like, hardcore dissing.  Yeah, okay, we get it, you don't like Industrial.  Alright.  Cool.  You're still a talentless asshole who plays stereotypical shit music.

I really don't get the whole Modest Mouse worship thing.

Wait a second. Why are we on the "Modest Mouse = or does not = experimental" debate? Only one person said they were experimental and he/she/it was already proven wrong by Kai.

Oh, and stereotypical shit music TOTALLY makes sense as an insult. Wow. Modest Mouse is SOOOOO what all of us think of when we think of shit music! No, not Britney Spears or Snow Patrol, MODEST MOUSE. Yes, THAT's the common definition of shit.

Wonderful.

[Everest]

I hate the whole mainstream/not mainstream idea, I must say. There's hardly any telling if there's any line, if there's any line to begin with. Everything's music, there's good and there's bad, and that's all I need. In fact, I'm way more uncomfortable with bands desperately trying not to be mainstream, than bands that don't care either way, and just make music.

Words to live by.

And I love Snow Patrol, seen them three times now and enjoyed every single concert...best was when they were supported by Keane, that was great!

Thank you!

And I too think Snow Patrol is good. Definitely better than Coldplay, I fail to see where that comparison came from.

OLP is good too, but mainstream? Maybe on native soil. I've never heard them on the radio, never read about them in magazines, never saw them on tv, never saw any publicity anywhere. I don't even know anymore how I got to know them. That reminds me to put on "Spiritual Machines" again. Good stuff.

Everything is mainstream on native soil. Another reason why I'm uncomfortable with the label "mainstream".

[KharBevNor]

The media is a tool designed to mold us into slaves
Drugging us into an empty, apathetic daze.
The trick is that we think that everything is going fine
But the truth to our reality lies buried in the mind
I don't give a fuck about the Hollywood elite;
I don't really care if models can't fucking eat.
I don't give a fuck a fuck about which movie is on top.
But what I really know is that the shit has got to stop.
Consumer appetites are never satisfied in full,
Beause the objects that they buy can simply never fill the void.
A constant need for meaning, and accumulating shit,
drives the lust in their obsession just to get another fix.
I don't give a fuck about the TV ratings game,
The Real World is not a party, just a place for the insane.
If that reflects reality, then pass another drink
You try to be a millionaire, I'll vomit in the sink.
What the fuck is left to try,
on an avaricious nation on an economic high?
If Rome could last 500 years,
who then will throw the wrench inside our gears?
The bottom line is money on the Western power scene,
where celebrities and porn can let the population dream.
They're pathetic human living in an advertising glut,
who devour with a passion what the mainstream vomits up

Dying Fetus - Pissing in the Mainstream

[Johnny C]

An expected statement from a band named "Dying Fetus."

[MysteriumTremendum]

You're an idiot. I was being serious and you fucked it up with a shitty pop culture reference. Go read Rorty and come back when you're older.

Wow, touched a nerve there...sounds like someone needs to be put down for a nap!

Does it really matter what other people are listening to as long as they're having a good time? I mean, if we all had EXACTLY the same tastes the world would be a pretty fucking mind-numbing place.

[soak]

Does it really matter what other people are listening to as long as they're having a good time? I mean, if we all had EXACTLY the same tastes the world would be a pretty fucking mind-numbing place.

Of course it matters!

You contradict yourself; The purpose of railing against the mainstream is that homogenising taste is its goal.

Truely mainstream music (Britney, Avril et al) is the music that people like without truely knowing why or rather the music they like by default because they have no personal taste.

-- sorry for ranting --

[Cpt.Fantastic]

And I love Snow Patrol, seen them three times now and enjoyed every single concert...best was when they were supported by Keane, that was great!

You ARE joking... right?

[Merkava]

I liked Keane...but then my testicles dropped.

[sp2]

Oh, and stereotypical shit music TOTALLY makes sense as an insult. Wow. Modest Mouse is SOOOOO what all of us think of when we think of shit music! No, not Britney Spears or Snow Patrol, MODEST MOUSE. Yes, THAT's the common definition of shit.

It makers sense as an insult because Modest Mouse is often hailed by a lot of people as some sort of music revival (like the Strokes or the White Stripes, but don't get me started on them either) when really, their music isn't anything new or special.  Why do indie kids fellate them?  I'm not really sure.  I mean, if you're going to talk about innovation, there are much better bands out there.  Thus, pointing out that Isaac Brooks writes stereotypical shit music does make sense.  Pointing out that Snow Patrol or Britney Spears are shit is really just being redundant.

[Merkava]

I have yet to find a band that sounds like Modest Mouse. Care to point me to a band that does so that their clicheness and lack of innovation can be proven?

[sp2]

I don't listen to much like Modest Mouse, but I would argue that most of the musical "innovation" is taken from various jam bands and just co-opted into a more traditional indie rock song format.  Really, I don't hear anything on Moon and Antarctica that I haven't heard late at night in a stuffy college dorm room.

[El Opium]

Though they're from a while back I am quite into Kyuss, though sometimes the clean clear production grates on me a bit. Queens of the stoneage are good but I don't have anything by them. There are also quite a few albums that originally came out on indies but have been re-issued by majors.

[Gryff]

Yeah, okay, we get it, you don't like Industrial. Alright. Cool.

Switch "Industrial" with "Modest Mouse" and you get what most board members are thinking right now.

[Jarne]

Another to add to the list for me would be the Ramones. Sure, their music is simple, never evolved and the lyrics where almost laughable, but they're still fun.

[QHD]

I want to come to the stuffy college dorm rooms that churn out songs from Moon & Antarctica. I also agree with the above poster. Unless it's you, sp2, in which case I don't. On the Modest Mouse issue. Because Modest Mouse are awesome.

[PunkisDead]

Avril is a talented girl, and I don;t think she trys to be punk, she just sort of does her own thing... but seriously. she writes her own lyrics and music. and her stuff is pretty original, gotta give her some credit.

Besides she has never called her self. a punk, punker, punk rocker, emo victim, hardcore kid yadda yadda. the media tried giving her those titles..

and AFI was only good for the first 2, maybe 3 albums....
Sex Pistols were never good.

Q. What are the Misfits named after?

[Luke]

- Coldplay
 - Snow Patrol
 - Our Lady Peace
 - Chevelle
 - System of a Down
 - Aerosmith
 - Evanescence
 - U2
 - Franz Ferdinand
 - Lostprophets
 - Jet
 - Green Day

My list. Definitely some controversial ones in there (on this forum anyway), but I don't care. I'm not arguing with anybody over any of them.

Also:

8===D

[practicality]

Yaay for the majority of Luke's list above, especially Franz Ferdinand, Jet, and Evanescense
I'd like to add:
Pink Floyd
Led Zeppelin
Muse
White Stripes

[MysteriumTremendum]

And I love Snow Patrol, seen them three times now and enjoyed every single concert...best was when they were supported by Keane, that was great!

You ARE joking... right?

I jest not, it was a very good concert! Keane remind me a great deal of A-Ha, and I think they're very good. Their music doesn't require my full devoted attention for an hour, which can be the case with other artists.

You contradict yourself; The purpose of railing against the mainstream is that homogenising taste is its goal.

S'funny...I thought the idea of most music you'd consider mainstream was to make as much money as possible? If you homogenise it, how will you appeal to multiple markets and people? Some of the stuff already mentioned in this thread is about as homogenous as oily water for a start.

[Johnny C]

Taaaaaaaake onnnnnnnnnnn meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

TAAAAAAAAKE MEEEEEEEEEEEEE ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

[Freelance Physicist]

I like Coldplay.

...

*whistles piano intro to "Clocks"*

[La Creme]

Taaaaaaaake onnnnnnnnnnn meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

TAAAAAAAAKE MEEEEEEEEEEEEE ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

IIIIIIIIIII'LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL BEEEEEEEEEEEEE GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNEEEEE!

*something* WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[Freelance Physicist]

INNN A DAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY ORRRRR  *smash testicles* TWOOOOOOOOO--

*throut seizes up*

*collapses on floor*

[La Creme]

That song has a pimp-ass video.

[GebStar]

I have a soft spot for My Chemical Romance. It's pretty much the only thing that is emo/screamo which i'll even bear listening to.

I'm not that into mainstream. Although i listen to fairly mainstream indie bands. I'm not into mainstream for one reason, i have a superiority complex and i feel better about myself for liking music which other people haven't even heard of.

[McTaggart]

Arcade Fire is playing arenas and are on MTV.  I'd consider that mainstream, yeah?

Indie mainstream yes. Mainstream mainstream no.
None of the indie record stores in Perth had copies of Funeral this weekend; they were sold out. None of the mainstream chains had copies of Funeral either; they'd never heard of them.

[edit]Sorry for resurecting that, but I didn't notice the second page of the thread.

[lessthanfirst]

Avril is a talented girl, and I don;t think she trys to be punk, she just sort of does her own thing... but seriously. she writes her own lyrics and music. and her stuff is pretty original, gotta give her some credit.

Besides she has never called her self. a punk, punker, punk rocker, emo victim, hardcore kid yadda yadda. the media tried giving her those titles..

and AFI was only good for the first 2, maybe 3 albums....
Sex Pistols were never good.

Sorry but that's not true. There is a website (and I'll get a link for you later then put it in this post) where she says she makes punk music and how she hasn't listened to the Sex Pistols (the only reason being that they're old). Her stuff isn't all too original, it can be pretty much labelled as an easy cross between Blink 182 and typical pop singing. My World reminds me of Nelly Furtado. If you look at the credits for the first album all the songs are co-written with someone else and 1 or 2 of them were written for her.

Sing the Sorrow and the Art of Drowning were good albums. I haven't heard much AFI stuff from before those, only a few songs but if you read through the lyrics they're good. They mix a poetic style with a lot of darkness and to be able to mix that with the melody and energy that they have is pretty good.

Where's your proof that the Sex Pistols were never good. I mean to go backwards to the previous argument that cropped up ever so slightly in this thread that they were better then the Clash... well.... NO.

The Clash's lyrics were intelligent and said something new that could make people think. The 3rd album was just a work of pure genius. It mixed styles and the fact that it has influenced loads of bands does count for something. Sandinista was a good experiment, though a couple songs on there may be a bit boring it is good and the fact that they were brave enough to try something like that is cool. Combat Rock was good too, mostly, and we'll pretend that Combat Rock was the last album but that Dictator was a B-Side or something because that song's brilliant.

http://www.thefilthandthefury.co.uk/home Proof

And if Punk was really dead then bands would have stopped playing it. As it goes, lots of bands still play it and lots of people turn up to the shows to watch them play it.

I'm really sorry, I sound like an arrogant prick and I take this stuff too seriously

[KharBevNor]

Q. What are the Misfits named after?

Marilyn Monroes last film.

Duh.

@Less: Because something is written on a website, especially a 404 error'd one, does not make it true. I find the Clash hugely over-rated. Maybe they inspired some good shit, but does that mean I have to like them? Worth is about which band actually sounds better, in my mind, and the Pistols ace that.

But please let's not have this argument for, what, the third or fourth time now?

[ASturge]

Besides she has never called her self. a punk, punker, punk rocker, emo

I saw an interview where she said

"Before I became a punk I was a surfergirl"

[Merkava]

Another to add to the list for me would be the Ramones. Sure, their music is simple, never evolved and the lyrics where almost laughable, but they're still fun.

SOMEBODY PUT SOMETHING IN MY DRINK!!!

[MysteriumTremendum]

I was mulling something over earlier, and I'll use Arcade Fire as the objective piece.

Hypothetically, if everyone in the world (barring people from Anglesey) went out and bought Funeral tomorrow, went crazy on merchandising and created a five-year waiting list for gigs, and all of the music channels and stations started airing their music, would you:

a) consider them 'mainstream'?

and b) stop listening to them?

[Jarne]

I was mulling something over earlier, and I'll use Arcade Fire as the objective piece.

Hypothetically, if everyone in the world (barring people from Anglesey) went out and bought Funeral tomorrow, went crazy on merchandising and created a five-year waiting list for gigs, and all of the music channels and stations started airing their music, would you:

a) consider them 'mainstream'?

and b) stop listening to them?

Yes, they would be mainstream. And I would probably get sick of whatever song they constantly played on the radio, but I'd still listen to them.

[Merkava]

Dude, I'm WAAAAY ahead of you. I stopped listening months ago.

[Jarne]

Dude, I'm WAAAAY ahead of you. I stopped listening months ago.

Teach me your hipster ways.

[Kai]

It's a technique called "The Arcade Fire tends to get boring after about 5 or 6 listens."

[Sythe]

There's no definite answers.

To say that there are no definite answers is a definite answer, yes?

[PunkisDead]

Just spent 3 hours reading amd watching avril interviews... VJs are idiots and rolling stone should just burn

first and formost, just because a person calls them self a punk, dosen't mean they make punk music.... this just came to my attention reading an interview with Corb Lund.... chances are if our not canadian or european you won't be sure who he is... basiclly he was the frontman for a band called "The Smalls" with some absoultly amzing lyrics even if the music was lacking... But anyway Corb is now making country music under his own name with the band "The Hurtin Albertans" While it is country and I can admit that not ALL country is bad (most of it is crap though) he does write some really good music, but i have  a soft spot for his music being from teh same area and growing up with alot of folk/counrty. Anyway moral is. Corb said himself he is still a punk at heart I like Avril cause she a) writes her own shit b) can play an instrument and c) is proud of her heritage which is very uncommon for Canadian musicans and actors who make it big.... actually by rights I like Nelly Furtado for the same reasons... Shania Twain is a skank and needs to be beaten and Celine Dion.... I just ca';t stand her.

I was never a fan of the Sex Pistols, i just have a strange dislike for them, not a big fan of teh clash either....

And it's easy to say punk is dead.. No more Dead Kennedys, DoA is all but gone and Black Flag has left us. They don;t classify punk as punk anymore anyway....people use terms like hardcore, ska, emo, scremo etc... when i first got into the music we didn't differentate things like that. It was Just Music!!. It makes me sad. If it wasen't for Bad Religion ( new album aside, it just sounded too good :/) those of us stuck in the 80's and early 90's era of punk would have nothing left.

Although if you are into spoken word Jello Biafra (DK)and Henry Rollins (Black Flag, Rollins Band)  have some great stuff!


** Note brackets inserted because for some reason people do not know who these people are**

[TheSmirkster]

I really like the thought behind this thread here goes the list

Jack Johnson, Rancid, Dropkick Murphys, Led Zeppelin, Nirvana, White Stripes, Weezer, Transplants (a little bit), The Clash, Weird Al, The Vines, The Hives, Jet, U2, Suicide Machines, Sublime, The Sex Pistols, Rolling Stones, Beatles, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Outkast, Ludacris, NIN, Neptunes, Metallica, Libertines (in the UK anyways), Jurassic 5, Iced Earth, Mos Def, Gorillaz, Foo Fighters, Moby, Fatboy Slim, Cake, Bush, Beck, Ben Harper and the Innocent Victims, 311

I tried to keep it slim, since I normally have a very broad idea of mainstream.  For example, I would have put Catch22, but they're only mainstream in the ska scene.

[soak]

Can an Artist escape the mainstream?

For example Blur's last few albums have recieved less and less mainstream attention, i never heard Crazy Beat on commercial radio, but are they doomed to be considered eternally mainstream because of the success of Park Life etc?

[Luke]

If I ever became part of a music group that got off the ground, I'd do my best to get into the mainstream, just so I could make some money - I mean, seriously, how awesome would it be to make a crapload of money making music that you love to make? I don't see what the big deal is.

[Garcin]

"Mainstream" means different things to different people at different times.

If you use "mainstream" to mean not under an indie label, that is to say under Universal, EMI, Sony/Bertelsmann, or Warner, then obviously groups not run by superstars will have given up a substantial amount of creative control, have significant marketing budgets, and create primarily profit driven music (ie. music meant to appeal to as many people as possible).  Music for music's sake, experiments, attempts to challenge & educate the audience -- these don't exist for pop under the big four labels, hence the need (& value) for indie.

If you use "mainstream" to refer to groups that are well-known by their particular niche audience, then it should have no impact on the quality of their music.  I've heard some people make the argument that the only way an artist can do something really novel & interesting is when they don't feel the need to please their audience, hence the justification for the unknown group being best -- but I think that's complete bullshit.  Indie obsession with unknown bands is either (on the good side) a pleasure taken in introducing other people to new & exciting things or (on the bad side) a need to feel special & privileged, and a pathetic rationalization for the monumental amount of time spent to listening crap bands it takes before discovering a new one before anyone else.

Finally if you use "mainstream" to refer to groups that appeal to almost everyone, regardless of niche tastes, then your using it as an epithet.  Because a band that appeals to almost everyone is appealing on the lowest common denominator.

Conclusion?  "Mainstream" can be good, bad, or neutral depending on the context.

[Luke]

What gets me off is just that lots of people see a video on TV and/or hear a song on the radio, and immediately disown their appreciation for that artist. (See the "OMG" thread in this forum) Sure, there are instances where an artist will make music for the sole purpose of making as much money as possible - that is, changing the kind of music they make so it'll bring in the most profit. But when an artist/group simply becomes popular, I don't see the wrong in that.

Back a couple steps to the topic at hand, a couple artists I forgot to mention before (probably because they're at the other end of my music tastes) are Eminem and the people of G-Unit. G-Unit is simply good. Eminem - I'd say that 75% of his tracks are ones that you can bump to, but the other 25% of it is music that he makes based on his "I rap about whatever the hell I want to" policy. I don't have a problem with that at all; I respect his decision to do so, and besides, the other 75% of his stuff is really cool.

[ASturge]

^ I'd disagree on the G-Unit thing, they are most definatly bad music. Popular or not, bad music is bad music.[imo]

I'm with you when it comes to the mainstream though. So long as an artist doesn't make a concious effort to change his/her music just to get money and be more famous, I'm cool.

Death Cab for instance. Sure they're popular now, but 'Plans' is still awesome.

[Luke]

[high-fives ASturge for being cool]

[beckrokk]

I'm going to get some flak for this, but I'm not that afraid.

Gwen Stefani (Yes, solo. No, I'm straight. Bubble Pop Electric is a great song.)
Weird Al
Eminem's first record.
Chemical Bros.
The occassional Madonna song.
The White Stripes, though I heard them before they were big.

 I'm sure I'll think of more later.

[Skibas_clavicle]

I have one word for this thread: NURRRR