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[Kai]

Also, I think Sonic Youth's Daydream Nation (and several other albums by them) are really overrated. Sure, some parts are great, but a lot of it gets really boring, particularly later on. However, I'd like to point out that even though the studio version of Eric's Trip is pretty bad, if the Dirty Boots EP is any indication, it is really awesome live.

Daydream Nation is a tad overrated, yeah. Bad Moon Rising and Murray Street are better. Personally.

[TrueNeutral]

Well, I obviously loathe most of the indie canon stuff, whilst liking a lot of classic rock. Within the canon of music I actually like, well. Hmnnn... I think Slayer are terribly over-rated, though not to say they haven't got some cracking songs, and I never got in to Godflesh or any of the bands like Pelican or Isis, except maybe Sunn 0))) if you count them in that area. I think Carcass, At The Gates and Anathema are also over-rated, though nowhere near as much as Slayer. With Carcass I can't stand all the overblown worship of them in the death metal scene, with At The Gates I hate it how everyone says they invented melodeath, when they didn't (Edge of Sanity did) and I just don't think Anathema generally stand up to the early works of My Dying Bride and Paradise Lost. I generally don't like American style death metal, except odd dribs and drabs from odd bands: like I love 'To Serve Man' by Cattle Decapitation, but none of their other stuff. As foir other things, I've never really seen the point of NON (I find it pretty much pure masturbation), though I do like a lot of Boyd Rices other work. Some of those opinions are quite common though. As for the other way round, I like some hair metal, and I fucking love melodic black metal, especially the really awful shit. I would still class myself as a fan of Cradle of Filth, for example, their early work anyway. It's just so damn enjoyable!


Oh, and I don't like The Clash. At all.

Wait, Anathema is considered a good band at places?

Granted, I've only heard them a couple of times but they've always felt... Creedish... to me.

[thepugs]

I don't like The Clash, The Sex Pistols, Pink Floyd, Aerosmith, The Cure, Sonic Youth, Slayer, My Dying Bride, Carcass, Cradle of Filth, The Decemberists, Interpol, Sigur Ros, Modest Mouse, Franz Ferdinand...
And many more.

[Inlander]

I'm kinda angry at the anti-Reggae posts. But I have to go to class soon. I'll write my response that slams you all at another time.

Ohh no you won't.  Not in this thread you won't.  You will, at the most, offer a polite suggestion as to what a particular poster might listen to, in order to hopefully change his or her mind.

Such as the Harder They Come soundtrack.

[rynne]

This is probably sacrilege as far as industrial music goes, but I’ve never really liked Skinny Puppy’s Too Dark Park or Last Rights.  I keep hearing that these are the pinnacle of their career, but to me, they sound way too unfocused.  I prefer The Process or Rabies over both.

Oddly, I really enjoy Download’s Furnace, which is essentially the unfocused part of Last Rights being taken to extremes.

[Johnny C]

Nobody in this thread should be slamming anybody. This is a thread about taste and evaluation, and in instances where it's more than just "I don't like how it sounds" it gives you a place to say why you don't like something. And no, "it sucks" is not a valid reason.

[IronOxide]

I don't like Neutral Milk Hotel. He could probably sing with his mouth closed.

[robert g]

I'm kinda angry at the anti-Reggae posts. But I have to go to class soon. I'll write my response that slams you all at another time.

Ohh no you won't.  Not in this thread you won't.  You will, at the most, offer a polite suggestion as to what a particular poster might listen to, in order to hopefully change his or her mind.

Such as the Harder They Come soundtrack.

Wow. I was joking, you know. 

And yesssss, Harder They Come soundtrack. Also there's Max Romeo's excellent "War Ina Babylon," Horace Andy's "Skylarking," The Upsetters' "Revolution Dub," the Trojan Records Dub collections... the list goes on. I could be here all night.

The reason why I'm kinda angry though is that I feel that the people here saying that they don't like reggae just simply don't understand what's going on there. I can kinda understand though, if they don't like the "slow" sound of it. Slow music isn't for everyone.

[Johnny C]

It isn't the speed of it I don't like, it's the fact that it all comes across very same-y to my ears. Except Jr. Gong.

[KharBevNor]

Wait, Anathema is considered a good band at places?

Granted, I've only heard them a couple of times but they've always felt... Creedish... to me.

Anathema were one of the pioneers of doom-death. But, like Paradise Lost, and countless other decent gothic metal bands, they succumbed to the 'mid-nineties disease' and turned into a mopey alt-rock act.

The Anathema I was talking about

Even their old stuff though isn't doomy enough for me. I kinda dig the Pink Floyd influence, but it doesn't do it for me the way albums like 'Gothic' and 'Turn Loose the Swans' do.

[robert g]

It isn't the speed of it I don't like, it's the fact that it all comes across very same-y to my ears. Except Jr. Gong.

This is a problem I believe occurs across all genres of music, and unless one has an edcuated ear, it can happen very easily to anyone (my past self included). One just needs to look for those artists who actually create(d) originality within said genre, as opposed to, say, poorly-concieved compilations (shudder) or Greatest Hits packages (even worse).

I have an excellent collection of mixes by DJs, of classic reggae and dub that got me into the genre. At your request, I'll get a couple on here for you.

[Inlander]

Wow. I was joking, you know. 

Noted.  But it's important to be aware that, with only 8 posts under your belt, you don't really have an established personality on this board yet.  I'm not saying that to try to beat you over the head with my post-count, I'm just saying that as a new person here it's important to be aware that nobody yet knows enough about you to be able to tell when you're joking.  So it's a good idea to take extra care with what you say.  After all, there's no tone of voice on the internet.

[robert g]

Wow. I was joking, you know. 

After all, there's no tone of voice on the internet.

True. It's easy to forget that.

Do you listen to any other classic reggae/dancehall/dub? How about the modern stuff like Rhythm & Sound?

[The Hammered]

Daydream Nation is a tad overrated, yeah. Bad Moon Rising and Murray Street are better. Personally.

I haven't heard Murray Street, but I used to really love Bad Moon Rising. I think I overplayed it a bit, because I don't like it quite as much now.

[robert g]

Daydream Nation is a tad overrated, yeah. Bad Moon Rising and Murray Street are better. Personally.

I haven't heard Murray Street, but I used to really love Bad Moon Rising. I think I overplayed it a bit, because I don't like it quite as much now.

While we're on old Sonic Youth albums that are better than Daydream Nation, don't forget Evol OOOOOOOOOF.

[Gryff]

I'm curious as to whether people tend to like Daydream Nation less than other Sonic Youth albums (which is something I've noticed a bit on these boards) as a reaction to that album being generally named as SY's "essential" album.

[Inlander]

Robert g, I dip my toes in the warm waters of reggae and related music every now and then, but I haven't got in any deeper.  I own a few C.D.s by the likes of Horace Andy, Lee Perry, and Desmond Dekker.

[Rizzo]

This is probably sacrilege as far as industrial music goes, but I’ve never really liked Skinny Puppy’s Too Dark Park or Last Rights.  I keep hearing that these are the pinnacle of their career, but to me, they sound way too unfocused.  I prefer The Process or Rabies over both.

I'm with you there. I mean, I like Last Rights but I LOVE The Process.

So music that does nothing for me?

The Decemberists, Architecture in Helsinki, Of Canada, Deerhoof or any other indie band that people seem to go absolutely nuts over. I just find them so absolutely mind numbing. I can't describe or justify my dislike but they just cannot maintain my interest.

Trance, House and Hardcore (in the dance scene) bore me to fucking death. There's no variance, no hook, nothing to maintain my interest. Oddly, I love EBM which is basically just trance with vocals.
As far as I'm concerned, house is the worst music in the world. It's like taking everything that's good about electronica and raping it.

Doom, Amebix and Crass. I cannot fucking stand the early crust/anarcho punk scene. It's absolutely fucking atrocious. Comepletely unoriginal, horribly recorded, mind numbingly repetitive and fucking weak. Yet I absolutely adore modern d-beat/crust like Disfear, Asschapel and Tragedy. I think it's probably the abysmal recording.

80's hardcore. Black Flag, Bad Brains et al. Poorly recorded. Minor Threat are somehow Ok. It's just not heavy enough, I prefer my hardcore to have screaming and bits that go "jugga jugga" or "waaaily waaiily screech".

Early British punk. Sex Pistols, The Clash, The Buzzcocks, Slits and so on. Boring. Just so dull. Give me the US scene or 2nd wave any day, bands like Dead Kennedys, Misfits, The Exploited, the later work of The Damned, GBH and Bad Religion.

On the flip side I really enjoy synth pop, hair metal, metalcore, whiny teenager music (conventionally called emo), radio rap and pop. Justin Timberlake, The Game, Lupe Fiasco, That chavvy bitch who sings about fucking her boyfriend over, that kind of radio nonsense.

No doubt tommy will slag me out again and we'll have a big argument which no one will win. Just remember this, Deerhoof fucking sucks.

[nuisance]

Upon reflection, I realized something. To reggae and Bob Marley's credit, they produced Damian "Jr. Gong" Marley, who melds a lot of genres into his smart, listenable music.

Other than that, still don't like reggae.

FWIW Damian Marley is the cross-over face of a roots revival in Jamaica generally labelled "One Drop".  There is at least one comp by that name with other comparable artists.  Albums like Sizzla's 'Rise To The Occasion' are much more varied again, although I'm not sure what the hell to make of it.  Falsetto sing-jay styles through that silly Cher / Eiffel 65 'I'm Blue' vocal effect??  What the Funkadelic is he playing at?

So if you felt sufficiently inspired, that's a direction to look in.

I can sympathise with what Robert G wrote.  Reggae's got a good 40 years of evolution behind it, so I'm kind of amazed people would dismiss all of it, from the Skatalites to African Headcharge to Augustus Pablo to Yellowman to The Bug, but then I'd do the same with, e.g. metal or trance.  Sometimes, despite all the variations, it's the defining characteristics of the genre that are the things you can't respond to.  If I did like anything vaguely metal or trance-oriented it'd be in spite of that stuff...



Also, I'm kinda confused as to who's canon includes people like Paris Hilton? 

[Rizzo]

nope.
i do notice that your tastes run exactly opposite mine though. i guess we'll leave it to everyone else to decide who's 'right'.

What'd you say about me? I'll fucking fight you! 

[screwjack]

Don't like Sex Pistols or Dead Kennedys.   I Do like the  Dead Milkmen though.

Don't like Cradle of Filth or post Barnes Cannibal Corpse much (Not that I like Six Feet Under).  Metallica (especially anything after and including the Black Album), Led Zepplin, The Beatles, or Bob Marley.

Well to be more general... I don't like most bands that people say they like, then can only sing you the lyrics that the compilation CD commercials show.  Or maybe its just the people that say they like those bands whilst only knowing the 2 lines that happen to be on a commercial.

Still love Modest Mouse, Type O Negative, Bile, Dead Can Dance, Evergreen Terrace, Wumpscut, and MSI though.

[Kai]

So you don't like bands because... other people say they like the singles..?

[screwjack]

Not so much the single thing.  I think its the people who profess to like a band then can only name you popular songs by said band who really just get my goat.  Oh you like Bob Marley?  YEAH!  No Woman No Cry is amazing!

Mostly, (And I realize this, but don't work too hard on changing it)  I just don't like music other people listen to (or anything other people do for that matter).  I havn't purposefully listened to the radio (aside from the occasional talk show) in about 4 years.  I think one of the saddest moments I ever had was when I saw Modest Mouse on The OC.

[Kai]

Why should bands you like actually making it somewhere and actually maybe being able to afford a goddamn sandwich or something to eat depress you? That sounds ridiculously crass.

As for not liking bands because other people say they like them (even when they have just heard, as in Bob Marley's case, No Woman No Cry, a single), who gives a shit about those people? Just listen to the music you like and be done with it.

[screwjack]

I'm kind of torn on that subject... and I guess bands do have to cater to the larger demographic to sell albums, ie  teenage girls or whoeverthehell watches the OC. 

I don't begrudge a band selling albums, but a band that sells itself to corporate America to sell said albums is not cool with me.  But hey that's the way things generally work so who am I to argue with it right?

The other saddest moment in music I had was at a Metallica concert when I was a senior in high school (96-97)  During Nothing Else Matters or Wherever I May Roam (can't remember specifically without listening to both those songs again)  James was sitting on a barstool playing guitar, when it got to the *harder* part of the song he jumped up off the stool and kicked it backwards.  There was a stagehand who jumped up from the lower area of the stage and caught the stool before it hit the ground.

[Misereatur]

Tommy is right, there is nothing sadder then Metallica in 97.

Anathema were one of the pioneers of doom-death. But, like Paradise Lost, and countless other decent gothic metal bands, they succumbed to the 'mid-nineties disease' and turned into a mopey alt-rock act..

Have you heard Paradise Lost's new album? It's pretty good, they really took a few steps back into their Icon era. Anyway, I'm a big fan on Antehma's and PL's entire discography (except PL's Host. There is no such album. They never realesed it. IT DOES NOT EXIST). I actually really like the direcion Anathem took latley. Their last album, A Natural Disaster, is really amazing.

[E. Spaceman]

Mostly, (And I realize this, but don't work too hard on changing it)  I just don't like music other people listen to (or anything other people do for that matter).  I havn't purposefully listened to the radio (aside from the occasional talk show) in about 4 years.  I think one of the saddest moments I ever had was when I saw Modest Mouse on The OC.

Why were you watching The OC?

[screwjack]

I was watching the OC because I had to see for myself what the commercial said.  I should have just saved myself the pain.

[a pack of wolves]

Wow. I was joking, you know. 

And yesssss, Harder They Come soundtrack. Also there's Max Romeo's excellent "War Ina Babylon," Horace Andy's "Skylarking," The Upsetters' "Revolution Dub," the Trojan Records Dub collections... the list goes on. I could be here all night.

The reason why I'm kinda angry though is that I feel that the people here saying that they don't like reggae just simply don't understand what's going on there. I can kinda understand though, if they don't like the "slow" sound of it. Slow music isn't for everyone.

Oh no, I get it. It just bores me to tears and makes me think of hippies sitting around after free parties talking about chilling out and talking endlessly about that time they did mushrooms in Guatemala on their gap year. And since you mention it I have no problem with slow music. Doom, sludge, noise, slow blues and indie, all good. But not reggae. Never reggae.

Having said that, I really like The Harder They Come and the soundtrack doesn't bother me at all since it's so integral to a good film. I'd never want to hear it out of that context though.

[robert g]

Oh no, I get it. It just bores me to tears and makes me think of hippies sitting around after free parties talking about chilling out and talking endlessly about that time they did mushrooms in Guatemala on their gap year.

Now that's just sad, that you let [presumably college student-aged] hippies who go on "trips" [and probably go see shitty jam bands too] ruin a whole genre of music for you. That'd be like if I rejected liking the Books because they had an all-ages show here in Cleveland and so I had to deal with kids who were only ten when the Books started making music. In other words, laaaaaaaame.

[Cernunnos]

Sweet! Another clevelander! on a related note, sometimes one can like music because they hate it. for some reason I can't think of an example, but sometimes, a band is so obnoxious, grating or insulting or painful that you just gotta love them. Weird, isn't it?

[robert g]

Sweet! Another clevelander! on a related note, sometimes one can like music because they hate it. for some reason I can't think of an example, but sometimes, a band is so obnoxious, grating or insulting or painful that you just gotta love them. Weird, isn't it?

Hmmm... That is possible. Do you know John from Bent Crayon? I think he does that.

[nickyandthefuture]

I really tried to like the Specials, but it didn't work.  And fuck Symphonie Fantastique by Hector Berlioz.  Piece of crap.  *spit*

[a pack of wolves]

Now that's just sad, that you let [presumably college student-aged] hippies who go on "trips" [and probably go see shitty jam bands too] ruin a whole genre of music for you. That'd be like if I rejected liking the Books because they had an all-ages show here in Cleveland and so I had to deal with kids who were only ten when the Books started making music. In other words, laaaaaaaame.

You misunderstand me. The crappy nature of reggae music calls to my mind its worst fans since for me they kind of embody the qualities I hate about the music but they don't put me off. They don't exactly help, but neither do emo record collector snobs, middle class morons in girls jeans who think they're tough doing kung-fu to Converge, fashion crusties and obnoxious indie students, but I love all that stuff despite it.

[ImRonBurgundy?]

What about skinhead reggae, though?  That should conjure the exact opposite image.

[a pack of wolves]

That would just make me picture a hippy/skinhead crossbreed bringing together in one potent whole the worst of both, and nobody needs thoughts like that in their mind. It's just not healthy.

[Merkava]

More recent stuff: Modest Mouse.  I've only heard The Moon & Antarctica, but I cannot for the life of me see why everyone gushes over it so much.  Killer first two songs, one or two other good ones in there, but my god it draaaaaaaaags in the middle.

Really? I find the first few tracks splotchy and boring. I think the album only gets really great from Cold Part onwards. In fact, the "drag" is the best part of the album for me.

[ImRonBurgundy?]

That would just make me picture a hippy/skinhead crossbreed bringing together in one potent whole the worst of both, and nobody needs thoughts like that in their mind. It's just not healthy.

Skinhead reggae is rather different than say, Bob Marley stoner reggae, you know.  It's got a completely different feel to it.  It's reggae that goes out drinking after an eight-hour day at the steel mill and gets into a streetfight rather than getting baked and sitting in its dorm room spouting off vague political credos and half-incubated philosophical ruminations.

[Splitter]

Not so much a band as a genre really. When I turned 25 people started asking me if I liked jazz. Did this happen to anyone else? Is that supposed to be the watershed age when i stop liking shortloudfast and get drawn into langorous noodling and atonal hooting?

Oh, And I dont like Weezer.
(i'm new, Howdy.)

[BeoPuppy]

On a related note, sometimes one can like music because they hate it. for some reason I can't think of an example, but sometimes, a band is so obnoxious, grating or insulting or painful that you just gotta love them. Weird, isn't it?

Case in point:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=42718986

Try the song 'black'. The lyrics are on the same page if you scroll down a bit.

they hurt.

[a pack of wolves]

That would just make me picture a hippy/skinhead crossbreed bringing together in one potent whole the worst of both, and nobody needs thoughts like that in their mind. It's just not healthy.

Skinhead reggae is rather different than say, Bob Marley stoner reggae, you know.  It's got a completely different feel to it.  It's reggae that goes out drinking after an eight-hour day at the steel mill and gets into a streetfight rather than getting baked and sitting in its dorm room spouting off vague political credos and half-incubated philosophical ruminations.

Recommendations? It can't hurt to give it a try.

[robert g]

i've loved jazz since i was about fifteen, so i guess that didn't apply.

It doesn't apply to me either.

What's with people always associating reggae to Bob Marley and then to stoners? Seriously, there's way more to reggae than 1) Marley and it really isn't all that much into the pot. At least, not the real stuff.

[nuisance]

First time music was called "ska" it was in reference to the first kind of reggae in the 60s, pre-dating two-tone by close to 20 years, and kicked off by Jamaican jazz musicians.  Most obvious example being the Skatalites.  But I guess you mean this rock music with horns coming from California.

[The Hammered]

for me the two really great sonic youth albums are 'sister' and 'evol'. those are the only two i would say are absolutely essential to any record collection. then i guess if you definitely wanted more 'bad moon rising' and 'confusion is sex/kill yr idols'.
from then onwards there is something to be found each album but they never really hit such a peak again.

I haven't listened to EVOL enough to really get used to it. I like some of it, and I'll probably like it more as I listen to it more. For Sister, it kind of fluctuates for me. Sometimes when I listen to it I really love it, and sometimes I like some of it a little but don't care for most of it. I haven't been really interested in checking out most of their post-Daydream Nation things, but I don't care much for what I've heard of Goo, Dirty or EJST&NS. However, the Dirty Boots EP and the couple other live tracks from that show which are available on their website convince me that Goo-era live shows could be really good. Speaking of which, I want to get Hold That Tiger as well.

On a somewhat related subject, Swans' Cop often seems to be considered their best early album. I don't care for it that much, to be honest; it's all right some of the time when I'm in the mood, and some of it's great, but over the length of the album (which is actually pretty short) it starts feeling dull and unoriginal, like they're just relying on volume and tempo to make it disturb the listener. I love Young God, and what little I've heard of Filth, since they feel far more dynamic and expressive than Cop. I'm sure Cop would've been great live, but the album doesn't work well for me.

Children of God isn't that great either.

[ImRonBurgundy?]

Skinhead reggae is rather different than say, Bob Marley stoner reggae, you know.  It's got a completely different feel to it.  It's reggae that goes out drinking after an eight-hour day at the steel mill and gets into a streetfight rather than getting baked and sitting in its dorm room spouting off vague political credos and half-incubated philosophical ruminations.

Recommendations? It can't hurt to give it a try.

Well, you can't go wrong with Trojan's box sets as far as roots ska and reggae go, so I would recommend picking up the Trojan Skinhead Reggae Box Set for starters.  There's also a few skinhead reggae revivalist bands about, the most prominent of which are probably The Aggrolites.  See 'em live if you get a chance, they put on a really great live show.  Lots of energy.

[The Hammered]

I'll admit I know far too little about reggae in general, but is anyone familiar with the Drastics? I haven't heard any of their studio work yet, but I've seen them live and they were great.

[Gryff]

I am not a guy who goes for reggae or ska either, but two words make an exception to the rule:

The Specials.

And then another four words if you want to be specific:

'Message To You, Rudy'