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[KharBevNor]

i prefer politics out of music and any art.

Well, quite apart from the fact that pretty much all art makes a sociopolitical statement whether you want it to or not, I completely disagree with this. I'm an artist and a musician and I believe art and music are two of the most powerful political tools available. I plan to (and indeed do) use my music and art to communicate my political, social and philosophical ideas. I also feel that as far as keeping the politics out of art goes, out of the three project briefs I have in this part of my course, one is expressly political and one could easily be political, simply because of the nature of the brief. Already this year mini-briefs I've been given have included designing a new logo for the conservative party and manipulating a section of a billboard to express a political or social message. Art IS politics.

[jcknbl]

Well theres a difference between politics and Politics (though obviously not in the spelling). Pretty much everything is political but not everything makes an explicit point regarding which party or faction should or should not control the governement. Music about the latter tends to be boring, simplistic and oblivious because the topic is explicit, the position of the artics is a known quanity and the message is one most intelligent people have heard before. Further generally speaking I think this sort of music implicitly refuses to accept that it's message might be wrong. None of that is inherrantly bad but those characteristics tend to result in less interesting music.

Part of this is because when an artist is really explicit about the music's message the listener's enjoyment will be undermined the monent the listener hears part of the message that she disagrees with. For example, I can't stand Greenday's "American Idiot", mostly this is because the tune sucks but I also find the message to be short-sighted, simplisitic and at times offensive and just wrong ("redneck agenda"). I actually wonder if history hasn't made the 60's conflict more clear cut than it was. I've assumed "Masters of War" was more compelling when it was written but its definitely possible I would have thought it too simplistic.

Khar is still mostly right though.

[Will]

On the "art is politics" line of discussion; I don't know if I necessarily agree, at least if the argument is that art is ALWAYS politics.  I don't think that art by definition must be politically skewed, or even politically minded.  I think that art should be driven by passion.  Therein lies the crossover; Khar, you say that you are using your art to, quote: "communicate my political, social and philosophical ideas."  I guess I'm trying to argue that this is just a reflection of what you are passionate about, so that is where you find your muse.  I commend you for it.  I haven't had the opportunity to see any of your artwork, but I appreciate that you are trying to use it as a vehicle.  By the same token, let's take someone who writes a sonnet for his lover, or who paints a portrait of his mother to show his appreciation for all she's done for him, or anything along that line; it's political in nature, but I would argue it has as much artistic merit as anything in the "political" spectrum.

I'm very much entralled by the idea of art as emotion and passion, more so than art as politics.  I just think there is much crossover between the two.

Hopefully this didn't sound too pretentious, and I didn't come across as having my head stuck quite far up my ass...

[CutMan]

Here's a simple solution to your "politics shouldnt be in music thing". If it messes with your enjoyment of the music, then you probably disagree with what they're saying. So... Don't listen to it. You're doing the right thing by notl istenign to it, because you shouldn't. It's sort ofl ike a christian complaining about a not being able to enjoy a non-christian movie.

They can express what ever they want, you thinking they shouldnt talk about what they believe is right is artistic tyranny.
And saying they shouldn't act like they know they're riht is a little odd, isn't it? If they didn't think they were right, that would sort of contradict them believing it, wouldn't it?

[cTony]

Well, i'm ok with it as its not the motivation or the ideas that i'm feeling from the music (afterall, how could such things be felt), but rather the convictions and feelings of the artists behind the ideas they put into the music, and how they are conveyed.

[Rocinante]

I'm not a big fan.

They've got some really neat instrumental stuff, and are good song-writers, I'll give them that. But I don't care for their whole attitude. They are a little too careless and offensive for me, although some of their songs are very clever.