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[MadassAlex]

Well shitcakes guys.

Pretty much Slayer and Manson are teaming up for some kind of tour with Manson closing. This is not good - not only musically, but Slayer's affiliation with a shock-rock band kind of kills what was left of the band's badassery.

No disrespect to Manson, but Slayer is pretty much about as thrashy as it gets when you're not Dark Angel or Megadeth during Rust In Peace. Or Strapping Young Lad. Going from a well-established "progenitor" band who's main connection with the media is a huge cocksucker to a shock-rock band who's main connection with the media is a huge cocksucker without ribs is a pretty risky proposition for a show. I just don't think Manson will be able to keep up with the tempo even when he plays his heaviest songs which is going to lose audience members (Manson is playing after Slayer). And will Manson fans want to wait through an hour or more of thrash metal?
So more or less both of them are shooting themselves in the foot. It's like getting Deicide to co-headline with Alice Cooper, except that the latter set of artists are arguably quite a bit better.

Thoughts? Opinions? Equally stupid and poorly-thought-out band combinations?

[Scytale]

SYL are thrash???

Don't get me wrong City is a fucking good album but I don't really think of them as a thrash band.

Slayer are pretty much irrelevant nowadays, haven't but out a good album since Seasons in the Abyss (Divine Intervention is merely mediocre imo...). If you want good thrash listen to something like Destroyer 666, Desaster or Axis of Advance.

[Caspian]

I wonder what kind of stuff will get thrown at Manson?

Seriously, I can definitely see this ending really, really badly. Which is a good thing, because I'm not really a fan of either bands.

Also, Slayer lost most of their credibility ages ago. None of their albums past South of Heaven have really been that good.

[MadassAlex]

SYL are thrash???

Don't get me wrong City is a fucking good album but I don't really think of them as a thrash band.

Slayer are pretty much irrelevant nowadays, haven't but out a good album since Seasons in the Abyss (Divine Intervention is merely mediocre imo...). If you want good thrash listen to something like Destroyer 666, Desaster or Axis of Advance.

Well, The New Black was really thrashy I thought, although you could argue it's more empowered. SYL doesn't really fit into a single subgenre anyway, so I thought I may as well use them as an exaple.

Also lol @ tommy <3

EDIT: For the record I think Slayer still rock really hard and make good music, except the issue is that it's the same good music they made 20 years ago.

[Jackie Blue]

I think Marilyn Manson has made far better music than Slayer.

Dismissing him as a "shock rocker" is retarded.  He has/had certain images.  So?  So did Bowie.  Don't you think that a lot of Slayer's imagery is predated on the notion of being "shocking" or "extreme"?

I'm sick of people listening to Slayer.  Especially people under the age of, I don't know, 30 or so.  I'm sick of 17 year old kids with Slayer t-shirts on who don't listen to any other "metal" but who have bought into the stupid "I <3 Slayer" schtick that started 10 years ago or whenever it started.

Seriously, fuck Slayer.  Go see Acid Mothers Temple instead.  They rock about a million times harder.

[Hat]

Guys, this reminds me. I was listening to Alien on the train to work today. How do metalheads define SYL anyway? I just call them heavy metal because they are extremely heavy metal, but I can never figure out what sub-genre I should label them as.

[MadassAlex]

stuff

Dude, chill.

I say Alice Cooper's a "shock rocker" but he rocks so fucking hard that it makes my penis explode. I don't have anything against shock rock. I just think Manson has pretty mediocre music is all. Nothing to do with "shock rock".

AND he removed his ribs so that he could suck himself off. Yeah, that's a new one for a rock star.


Also SYL are just "heavy metal" I think, since, like Dethklok, there are influences from too many subgenres of metal to be anything else, even though it resembles thrashy deathy metal more than anything else.

[Jackie Blue]

I hope you're being sarcastic.  Marilyn Manson's rib removal is an urban legend.

However, this is not nearly as bad a tour idea as the fact that Mono is going to be playing with High On Fire, Panthers and Coliseum - three metal/hardcore bands - and not only that, but Mono will be playing third and will be playing for a full hour.  That means that hardcore/metal kids are going to rock out for two bands, then suddenly be expected to wait through an hour of instrumental pretty post-rock before the main band.

I'm planning on seeing the show, but Lord, it could be such a trainwreck.

[MadassAlex]

three metal/hardcore bands - hardcore/metal kids

There is something terribly wrong with these terms and I think Khar can spell it out for us.

But fair enough apart from that.

[Gridgm]

SYL are thrash???

Don't get me wrong City is a fucking good album but I don't really think of them as a thrash band.

Slayer are pretty much irrelevant nowadays, haven't but out a good album since Seasons in the Abyss (Divine Intervention is merely mediocre imo...). If you want good thrash listen to something like Destroyer 666, Desaster or Axis of Advance.

ok destroyer 666 and their offspring gospel of the horns are quite thrash orientated but i've really never viewed them outside the black metal genre (i personally thought christ illusion was a solid album it jsut had the problem of having no standout songs)

[Misereatur]

That means that hardcore/metal kids are going to rock out for two bands, then suddenly be expected to wait through an hour of instrumental pretty post-rock before the main band.

Last time I checked, Mono rocked the fuck out.

[hihowareyou]

I hope you're being sarcastic.  Marilyn Manson's rib removal is an urban legend.

However, this is not nearly as bad a tour idea as the fact that Mono is going to be playing with High On Fire, Panthers and Coliseum - three metal/hardcore bands - and not only that, but Mono will be playing third and will be playing for a full hour.  That means that hardcore/metal kids are going to rock out for two bands, then suddenly be expected to wait through an hour of instrumental pretty post-rock before the main band.

I'm planning on seeing the show, but Lord, it could be such a trainwreck.

oh shit I gotta check this tour out.

[KharBevNor]

Mansons toured with Iron Maiden before, and Slayer tour with all sorts of filth and shit on their Unholy Alliance tours (Which I presume this probably is. I think the point of those tours is to pair Slayer with some other enormous band(s) that you wouldn't necessarily think of playing with Slayer). When I saw them it was with Slipknot, Hatebreed and Mastodon, as unlikely a line-up as you'll ever find at a hard rock concert of any sort. Whole thing went fine, though the pits got interesting. They went with Lamb of God and Children of Bodom last year if I recall. The two bands also co-headlined Download as far as I remember. Slayer are in it for the money at this point anyway, and good luck to them. Pity they stopped making good music, but thats often the way shit goes. It's a commercial deal. Mansons huge, Slayers huge, and they've probably got a huge audience crossover. Literally every time I go to an alternative night, I see people rock out to both of them.

Also, how on earth can it harm Slayers image to be attached to a shock rock band. Slayer have always admitted that they offend people deliberately. I remember an interview with Tom Araya (who is, believe it or not, a christian) asking how, given his faith, he could write and perform on an album called 'God Hates Us All'. He replied something along the lines of 'Well, it's a fucking good title, and it'll really piss people off'.

[Jackie Blue]

Last time I checked, Mono rocked the fuck out.

Again I will point to www.fabchannel.com

They do certainly get loud.  But they often take a long time getting to loud.  And there are no lyrics.  And it's not the same kind of loud as High On Fire/Coliseum/Panthers, not even remotely.

The key point, here, is the town I live in (Knoxville, TN) and the venue they're playing at (a venue that mostly books bands like Avenged Sevenfold and Guns-n-Roses cover bands and stuff like that).  The redneck crowd that will show up for this show will not be amused at Mono, even when they're "rocking out".

I mean, this is a crowd that's going to be all "punk" and be moshing and shit.  You can't mosh to Mono.  You just can't.

[KharBevNor]

You can mosh to anything.

That is a fact.

[Jackie Blue]

OK, theoretically one could mosh to Mono.

But the key point here people:

REDNECKS

[Misereatur]

The key point, here, is the town I live in (Knoxville, TN) ... redneck crowd

Good point.

I guess it's like when Mike Patton and Fennesz came to play live in Tel Aviv a few weeks ago. Everybody got so exited that Mike Patton is coming to Israel that they forgot that Fennesz makes Ambient Techno and is kind of hard to get at first, and that Patton is no longer in Faith No More. Basically, people thought Patton was going to do a FNM night and got hit in the face with white noise and Patton screaming. Nobody got it and half of the crowd left in the middle of the concert.

[KharBevNor]

Theoretical schmeoretical. I've moshed to Yellow Submarine.

[Ballard]

Also, how on earth can it harm Slayers image to be attached to a shock rock band. Slayer have always admitted that they offend people deliberately. I remember an interview with Tom Araya (who is, believe it or not, a christian) asking how, given his faith, he could write and perform on an album called 'God Hates Us All'. He replied something along the lines of 'Well, it's a fucking good title, and it'll really piss people off'.

I saw this interview last night in a 3 hour documentary that covered pretty much everything from Dee Snider to Cannibal Corpse. The exact quote was "It's a fucking great title!" which they showed right after a clip of Tom screaming the chorus to God Hates Us All on stage.

Khar, you've got to be joking about Yellow Submarine.

[KharBevNor]

If I was joking, I would have chosen something more ridiculous.

[Storm Rider]

Slayer sucks, guys. Reign in Blood is the most overrated metal album of all time. Listen to Testament.

This has been your daily 'I listen to way too much thrash metal' public service announcement. I'm Storm Rider. Thank you for your time.

[amok]

Also, how on earth can it harm Slayers image to be attached to a shock rock band. Slayer have always admitted that they offend people deliberately.

Indeed. Plus, Slayer haven't been relevant enough to anything to offend anyone for about a decade so it makes sense that they'd be paired with Manson just as people are giving a shit that Manson exists again briefly 'cos of the new CD. Meanwhile Manson who doesn't draw anywhere near as much attention with his antics anymore gets to tour with the Slayer brand name. Savvy business for both parties.

[KharBevNor]

Yup. Pretty much.

[Scytale]

Ok destroyer 666 and their offspring gospel of the horns are quite thrash orientated but i've really never viewed them outside the black metal genre

Yeah I guess its kind of hard to define them. When I think of a thrash band I think off Riffs and Destroyer 666 has them in abundance. On a side note Gospel of the Horns are fucking awesome as well. Destroyer are moving further and further from their BM routes with every album. I kind of view them in a similar light to the European Thrash bands like Sodom and Kreator but with harsher vocals.

Desaster and Axis of Advance are both pretty similar. I'd definitely recommend checking out AOA's albums "Strike" and "Obey" they are both really good

[Felix_]

Here's a thought: Who cares who Slayer tours with? They have had far worse people open for them in the past than Marilyn Manson.

Also, SYL are definitely not thrash metal. I'm not sure what genre-header you would provide them, but it doesn't really matter anyways as they were washed up even before DT said he was done, and after "City" they failed to release anything relevant anyways in my estimate.

Also, AoA, Gospel Of the Horns, Desaster, D666, etc. etc. = these are not thrash metal bands merely because they exhibit random thrash metal elements in their music.

[MadassAlex]

Here's a thought: Who cares who Slayer tours with? They have had far worse people open for them in the past than Marilyn Manson.

Also, SYL are definitely not thrash metal. I'm not sure what genre-header you would provide them, but it doesn't really matter anyways as they were washed up even before DT said he was done, and after "City" they failed to release anything relevant anyways in my estimate.

The New Black is made almost completely of great songs.

Also, AoA, Gospel Of the Horns, Desaster, D666, etc. etc. = these are not thrash metal bands merely because they exhibit random thrash metal elements in their music.

Provide good alternative then. Heathen, perhaps. And Dark Angel.

[Jimmy the Squid]

Last Time I saw Slayer they were touring with Frankenbok and Machine Head. The last time I saw Mason he was touring with Jerk. Most people who like Manson, myself included, like Slayer as well (though not necessarily vice versa) so I really don't think it will be that much of a problem. I would go to that show as both of those bands were two of the main bands I listened to in primary school/high school. Is that tour coming to Australia?

[MadassAlex]

Last Time I saw Slayer they were touring with Frankenbok and Machine Head. The last time I saw Mason he was touring with Jerk. Most people who like Manson, myself included, like Slayer as well (though not necessarily vice versa) so I really don't think it will be that much of a problem. I would go to that show as both of those bands were two of the main bands I listened to in primary school/high school. Is that tour coming to Australia?

No idea, however Slayer was in Australia only a few months back.

[Felix_]

Here's a thought: Who cares who Slayer tours with? They have had far worse people open for them in the past than Marilyn Manson.

Also, SYL are definitely not thrash metal. I'm not sure what genre-header you would provide them, but it doesn't really matter anyways as they were washed up even before DT said he was done, and after "City" they failed to release anything relevant anyways in my estimate.

The New Black is made almost completely of great songs.

Also, AoA, Gospel Of the Horns, Desaster, D666, etc. etc. = these are not thrash metal bands merely because they exhibit random thrash metal elements in their music.

Provide good alternative then. Heathen, perhaps. And Dark Angel.

I'm assuming, of course, that if someone were to call AoA and others 'thrash metal' they'd have a pretty good idea of what original or classic thrash metal might sound like, and yes - Heathen and Dark Angel are fine examples of that.

I also understand that not everyone has the same opinion, and I just can't get into anything that Strapping Young Lad has been doing since "City". I didn't mind the self-titled 'comeback' record, although I did think that it was a far cry from the aggressive abandon that was exhibited on the preceeding release, but everything since....well, yeah. Not very good IMO.

My thoughts on "The New Black".



"This record couldn’t be more ridiculous, unexciting, or uncreative. Whether it’s the idiotic “S.Y.L.” chanting in the opening track (“Decimater”) or the lyrical stupidity of a failed attempt at tongue-in-cheek humor in “You Suck”, one has to wonder whether or not Devin Townsend has finally ran out of shiny new tricks to put on display for his hipster-doofus fanclub. It’s no secret that this album was rushed to production so that the band could have something to sell in time for Ozzfest, and – the lyrics (which are especially retarded), the riffs (boring/predictable), the arrangements (eh), the vocals (see: riffs), and everything else about the record suffered because of it. The result was something exceptionally mediocre. Obviously quantity is more important than quality, eh Devy? Nothing on this record exhibits the same type of focus, aggressive vigor, or clever inventiveness that I’ve heard on prior releases from what used to be one of Canada’s finest. Also, wasn’t there a reason why Devin Townsend, who is arguably the most overrated and hyped musician writing music in the entire heavy metal genre (besides Mike Patton), has a solo career? I’m sick of hearing an overabundance of clean vocals on Strapping Young Lad records. Give me “City” or don’t bother at all. No, I’m not speaking out against progression, and obviously “The New Black” is anything but progressive, but how about serving up something heavy and not rehashed material and pseudo-thrash riffs polished up in the studio? Wasn’t Strapping Young Lad the band that debuted with a record called “Heavy as a Really Heavy Thing”? Unfortunately, after three consecutive releases that were routine, monotonous, and run-of-the-mill, it seems that the speed-driven snarling beast of 1997’s “City” is permanently extinct in favor of accessible Century Media-esque nonsense. For shame."



It's pretty easy to see why Devin put finally decided to put a dying dog down.

[MadassAlex]

At the very least, Far Beyond Metal and The New Black are great tracks I think. Fucker and You Suck are both very fun songs, while Hope and Almost Again are just plain good. I think that review is being overly critical.

Saying that the album is overly commerical and somehow not heavy is pretty much 100% wrong. In fact Devy said why he cancelled SYL for good: "SYL was all about giving the finger. It's done that and it's time to move one." He's right - it's scarcely possible to put more aggression into a song than Far Beyond Metal IMHO. The review seems very concerned with "heaviness", and while SYL was always about heavy, I don't think clean vocals got in the way of that. On "Fucker" they're very well used, I thought. Indeed, that whole song was against commercialisation. Why would Devy be commerical anyway? He has his own record label, he doesn't need to suck up to anyone.
That review doesn't really raise many solid arguments against the album. The reviewer may not have liked it, and that's cool, but giving those reasons rather and saying "it sucks, end of story, dead LOL" is different to saying "I didn't like it for this and this and this". Instead of saying that it definately sucked because occasional clean vocals detracted from the heaviness and because it was evidently commerical because it was released in time for Ozzfest is silly - especially as it has bonus tracks on the Australian release! It's possible that the bonus tracks were indeed rushed, but I think that review is blurring opinion and fact.
The "repetative" riffs might be due to the power metal influence which itself borrows from NWOBHM bands like Judas Priest and Iron Maiden. Either way, I never really thought the riffs were overused or unoriginal - I thought they complimented the vocals perfectly.

[Felix_]

I really don't look for "fun" in the way that it was provided on "The New Black" from a band like Strapping Young Lad. 
You're probably right about being overly critical, but I'm pretty critical I suppose about all of the stuff I listen to, especially a band that I've been listening to for a number of years that has, at least in my mind, been on the continual downward spiral into the abyss of mediocrity.

The album is the most commercial outing that Strapping Young Lad have ever recorded, and it is (possibly) their least heavy record to date. Yes, Devy did say that "SYL was all about giving the finger...", and over the course of the last three albums, the band has failed to do just that. The "giving the finger" that was so readily apparent and vicious in its futuristic delivery on "City" slowly melted away until all that was left was the tired mediocrity and tongue-in-cheek humor found on "The New Black". Also, I really don't think that "Far Beyond Metal" is that heavy of a song. Yes, the review was concerned about the "heaviness" of the record because after SYL's debut, the live record, and "City", I expected something heavy, fast - a pissed off and mechanized metal wall of aggressive sound, which I definitely didn't find on "The New Black" whatsoever. I'm not saying that "Devy" has to suck up to people or that he decided to be commercial during the initial writing of the record, but whether he did or not, the final SYL record will go down as a forgettable footnote in their discography and as the most commercial record the band had ever recorded.

The bonus tracks are irrelevant. It wouldn't be difficult to make the case that the album was rushed so as to garner and secure a slot on Ozzfest at all, but again, and regardless, the end result was in Devin's hands and my opinion of the end result isn't a favorable one at all. I believe that Devin just released the record to appease SYL fans, and that he was tired with the band, probably uninspired and that the record was possibly heavily influenced by the suits in the Century Media offices more than anything (which is a common occurrence among CM bands releasing poor sometimes "mainstream friendly" records). Also, I really don't think that the "repetitive" riffs are due to any sort of power metal or NWOBHM influence whatsoever at all, I think they are what they are - "repetitive" and boorish riffs on an otherwise disappointing, uninspired and mediocre record.

That's all.

Uhm..back on topic...Slayer's new record is much better (even if it is a far cry from their classic material) than the new abomination from Marilyn Manson.

[Cartilage Head]

 Slayer fucking blows.

[MadassAlex]

Slayer fucking blows.

South of Heaven is pretty cool.

[Cartilage Head]

 I wouldn't really know. I've had Slayer crammed dpwn my throat by my friends for years and years and I just detest them. I mean I don't have a problem with anyone liking them, but they are just crap.

 Ya'll can continue with your thread now, uninterrupted.

[MadassAlex]

South of Heaven is crap in the same way that Django Rheinhardt was a really nice, generous dude more or less.