Fun Stuff > BAND
Do you buy music?
a pack of wolves:
Is helping the industry necessarily a good thing? Even if it is the independent side of it. I'm not sure if I have a good answer to that myself.
For example, there's a great little record shop here in Leeds called Out Of Step which specialises in punk music of one kind or another. When it opened I was about 15 and it was a revelation, all of a sudden there was somewhere I could go to buy all these punk records that I'd heard about in zines and pick up gig flyers at the same time. Now, it seems to be dying like many other shops of its type. Part of me is very sad about this, I used to love that place. On the other hand I can't remember the last time I went to it for something other than a gig ticket. Part of the reason for that is that I just don't listen to punk and hardcore as much as I used to and if I do feel the need I've already got a pretty hefty collection of the stuff to dip into. The other part is that when I do want something like that these days it's much more convenient and cheaper for me to order from a distro like SuperFi. Sure, it's not as pleasurable a shopping experience as flicking through a pile of records in a shop where Black Flag is on the stereo in the background, but is that really a good enough reason for me to pay the extra? It seems not, since I don't. I guess what I'm getting at with all that is that although the independent record shop is a nice place and I will be sorry to see it go, does it really have that much a function anymore?
Independent labels and distros on the other hand are a whole different kettle of fish, I think they'll always be around since the purposes they serve (distribution, promotion, fronting recording costs, helping out with tour money, organising split releases etc) will probably always exist in one way or another.
I agree with zerodrone about touring though. I have met very few DIY artists who make money touring, most of us would be ecstatic to even break even. Breaking even on a record is much more common though.
sandman263:
--- Quote from: zerodrone on 30 Dec 2007, 11:57 --- But you are helping independant labels and stores.
Also, as has been pointed out, an artist receiving a little money from a sale is better than nothing.
--- End quote ---
And what is the point in having hundreds of independant stores, if there are no artists providing the music? Supporting the independant labels is different - I heartily agree with supporting these.
As for artists receiving a little money from a sale - I recommend Steve Albini's article (found at http://www.negativland.com/albini.html ). A typical band member earns about 1/3 as much as they would working as a store clerk off any new release.
--- Quote from: zerodrone on 30 Dec 2007, 11:57 --- Did you read the whole thread before posting? I already addressed this. There are many artists, and many I know personally, for whom touring is at best a "break-even" endeavor, due usually to the nature of reproducing their music in a live setting.
--- End quote ---
Indeed I did. Most of my friends still pump money into the merchandise stand of most of the bands we go and see, and these are people into their 30's. You didn't address this - you gave your perception. And I gave mine - most the artists I know personally, and have talked to after gigs, say that merch is where they make their money. I'm sure that everyone has a different view on this, based on the artists they know and have talked to.
--- Quote from: zerodrone on 30 Dec 2007, 11:57 --- The point was not just to help "the artist", but to help "the industry" - mostly independant labels - by actually paying them for what they are providing you. This is a pretty simple point.
--- End quote ---
The industry is based on the output of the artists - they are the lifeblood of the industry. Therefore, I base my buying habits on what supports the artists. Ask yourself which will allow the industry to thrive - every artist getting $8 on each album sale, or your local independant record store getting that $8, and throwing an extra $1 the artists direction? Which would you prefer an artist? Which would encourage you to keep creating music?
Independant labels are a great thing, when I know that the artist is getting a fair deal. In short, I buy where the artists gets the best deal - wherever that may be.
Jackie Blue:
--- Quote from: sandman263 on 30 Dec 2007, 12:23 ---As for artists receiving a little money from a sale - I recommend Steve Albini's article (found at http://www.negativland.com/albini.html ).
--- End quote ---
I, and people much more inside the industry than I, have gone into great detail about why that article is ridiculous and inaccurate and only applies to a relatively small percentage of bands. I'm not getting into it again.
--- Quote ---Independant labels are a great thing, when I know that the artist is getting a fair deal. In short, I buy where the artists gets the best deal - wherever that may be.
--- End quote ---
I don't know why you're derailing so massively. My original question was do you buy music. You say you do; fine, you're not part of the problem.
The initial sentiment stands, however, that a lot of the younger generation does not buy music in any form, or buys a very small percentage of the music they own and enjoy.
"Musicians should make enough money from their day jobs! Music shouldn't be a job!" OK, fair enough, but you know what? It takes a pretty damn good day job to even afford to be a musician. Do you have any idea how much money I spend on amps, pedals, guitars, mixers, PA systems, microphones, strings, etc.? Just having a day job isn't necessarily enough to afford to be the best musician you can; you need to get some supplemental income from the music itself.
The one album I've ever released commercially made the band about $10,000 in the first two years after it was released. That was pre-Napster and high-speed Internet. That money helped a lot.
Today, if even only 25% of the people downloaded it, that's a loss of $2500. That's not pocket change, that's enough to finance a small tour!
sandman263:
--- Quote from: zerodrone on 30 Dec 2007, 12:48 --- "Musicians should make enough money from their day jobs! Music shouldn't be a job!" OK, fair enough, but you know what? It takes a pretty damn good day job to even afford to be a musician. Do you have any idea how much money I spend on amps, pedals, guitars, mixers, PA systems, microphones, strings, etc.? Just having a day job isn't necessarily enough to afford to be the best musician you can; you need to get some supplemental income from the music itself.
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure where in my earlier points I gave the impression this was my opinion? My point is that musicians shouldn't need to make enough money from their day jobs, in my perfect world (the real world, alas, dictates otherwise).
My point is that I buy music from whatever source offers the best revenue cut to the artist themselves - and in many cases, independant labels and independant stores are not the answer.
Jackie Blue:
But a polite audience owes me the courtesy of not stealing from me.
It's like inviting people to your house for a party. At least some of them should bring their own beer and weed, and not eat all your leftover pizza in the fridge without asking.
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