Fun Stuff > CLIKC
D&D 4th Edition
ackblom12:
--- Quote from: Narr on 09 Feb 2008, 21:53 ---As I've said, they are making a game that a world happens to exist in, instead of making a world in which you can play a game.
--- End quote ---
Ok, since the rest of your quote is simply personal preference, this is what I'll focus on.
What the hell are you talking about.
Part of what makes the worlds in D&D worlds, rather than just game environments, is the huge amount of history of the worlds that have been put into them by TSR, Wizards and even individual DM's. The interaction of the players, your imagination and the DM's ability to convey a story will always be the most important part of what makes it a thriving world that you just happen to be playing a game in though, and I can't see how the hell a new edition would suddenly make you stop any of that.
frunK:
My friend introduced me to whitewolf's Story Telling Adventure System(world of darkness, vampire, warewolf) and I've given up on anything Wizards of the Coast puts out. Dungeons and Dragons has become a convoluted clusterfuck of contradicting rulebooks, and every time i've played somebody has stalled the game by arguing about some stupid rule.
ST system however
"I want to shoot the guy from the motercycle"
"okay your drive is 2 and your firearms is 3. roll 5d10 dificulty is 8"
"6 7 5 4 10"
"one success. you shoot him. roll damage"
SIMPLE! and everything works like that! WotC has stopped giving a shit about its fans and only cares about punping out two or three new books a month, no matter what BS is inside.
Alex C:
Ah yes, the floating TN systems. The history of those things will never cease to amuse me. Check this out:
"Point of historical trivia - Shadowrun, 1st Edition, was designed originally as a d10 system using the same dice-rolling scheme. Very late in the design process a decision was made to change the dice to d6s because... and I think my memory is still clear on this - "... you can buy six-sided dice at a drugstore..." --Tom Dowd
Incidentally, Tom Dowd later moved on to White Wolf, who basically adopted the d10 version of the Shadowrun's primary dice mechanic for their Storyteller system wholesale. The hilarious part is that Shadowrun basically screwed the simplicity of the system up in many ways-- it was a wonderfully easy mechanic to use, even in d6 form, but they then proceeded to use several different mechanics in other areas and boatloads of equipment with minor modifiers, leading to SR gaining a rep for being too crunch-heavy while V:TM went on to become an unmitigated success. The important point to keep in mind here though, is that whether a game is strong or not thematically (since, love 'em or hate 'em, Shadowrun, Earthdawn & V:TM have pretty vivid histories), is largely independent of their mechanics.
Narr:
--- Quote from: ackblom12 on 09 Feb 2008, 22:14 ---Ok, since the rest of your quote is simply personal preference, this is what I'll focus on.
What the hell are you talking about.
Part of what makes the worlds in D&D worlds, rather than just game environments, is the huge amount of history of the worlds that have been put into them by TSR, Wizards and even individual DM's. The interaction of the players, your imagination and the DM's ability to convey a story will always be the most important part of what makes it a thriving world that you just happen to be playing a game in though, and I can't see how the hell a new edition would suddenly make you stop any of that.
--- End quote ---
Wizards are being nerfed. Magic is being nerfed.
Magic is being nerfed.
Magic is being nerfed.
Magic is being nerfed.
Magic is being nerfed.
What part of this do you not understand? How can I make it anymore clear to you that they are designing an MMO style game with the whole class system everyone-has-his-defined role deal they are planning on? It'll just be Team Fortress 2 with dice instead of running and jumping and shooting. I don't want, and while I can respect Wizard's desire to make the game more accessible to more people, it ruins the very nature of D&D for me. Hybrids are half the fun. Worlds like the Forgotten Realms are dependent on the fact magic is ungodly powerful and cripples mere men. You take that out so wizards have a defined role as some long ranged damage class instead of masters of all that is the arcane and I resist that because it undermines what I stand for as a gamer. It offends my design philosophy as to what a true RPG really is, which really bothers me because D&D is what imbued my feelings within me.
If this still makes absolutely no sense to you, then let's just drop it before I get unreasonably angry.
supersheep:
I'm not really a D&D player, but I can see why they might want to do that - a very similar thing happened with Warhammer 40K between 2nd and 3rd edition. See, people have a tendency to go for the overly powerful characters. If wizards are so damn powerful, then they have to be very rare - not the kind of thing you'd see in every adventuring party, but only in climactic life or death things. In 40K, you'd have people fielding all the heroes of their race in a tiny battle, backed up with the creme de la creme of the hard troops - which is not really in keeping with the background of vast crazy conflicts where, powerful as they are, demigod characters are outnumbered a billion to one. If one class is so much better than everyone else, then what's the point in playing any other? Why would you want to play a fighter if you're only going to be useful for the first few levels and then after that you're a meatshield?
Then again, on the other hand, I agree with you on the background side - wizards are supposed to be masters of all that is arcane, not the guy with a magical sniper rifle. Balancing game mechanics with background is ridiculously hard.
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