Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[voyvf]

What I guess you meant is "Honestly if someone is overweight then they shouldn't complain if someone criticizes them."

So someone who is overweight shouldn't be offended if someone calls them fat? Even though that is extremely rude and hurtful?

I think it depends on the situation.  For example, a couple of years ago I went out for some drinks with my best friend from back when I was in high school, and he mentioned I'd gained weight. He was right; partying a lot, working a lot (desk job), and exercising very little had earned me a beer gut and some definite, obvious facial chubbiness. Thus, I'd have been a douchebag to get offended by the comment, IMHO - he was just being honest, not vindictive. And the comment was called for, since when he'd last seen me, I was working out a lot and my biggest concern was gaining (muscle) weight.

I understand that it's way different if you come out and call a friend a lardass, but telling them they need to hit the gym isn't a Bad Thing. At least, not unless you know they had just gotten over an eating disorder, or something similar - as I said, it really depends on the situation.

What if somebody called you a pimply-faced loser or pointed out that your beard was stupid or your haircut or clothing choice sucked? All of those are, to an extent, choices you make about the way you look (acne CAN be caused by bad hygeine.) This isn't me insulting you, because I don't know what you look like, but nobody has the right to degrade anyone's appearance in front of them. It isn't "advice" it is "being a fuckface". It is only advice if they honestly ask you for it.

See, telling someone they should pay attention to their hygiene usually isn't bad, either. Calling them a loser is different. The former really is advice. The latter is, as you termed it, being a fuckface. I do have to respectfully disagree about your definition of advice; after all, sometimes we don't know that we need to ask for it. 

Clothing and hair style (facial or otherwise) are matters of opinion, really, and amongst a mature social circle are perfectly open to insult when snarkiness levels reach over 9k.

Of course, one could go on and on about using tact in one's advice to friends, but since my tact-o-meter only works on full moons and leap days, I'm not really the best person to speak about such weighty matters.

[taekwondogirl]

This is a very harsh first post. I promise I'll follow up with something nice elsewhere. Maybe. This lady has proven herself to be rather moronic in addition to being fat. Take a look at this particular article:
http://fatlyyours.blogspot.com/2008/05/argh.html

Pay attention to this part:

Even if fat was the most common body type among children, which it's NOT, skinny is still the ideal and this is what matters in bullying: not the way you are, but the way you "should" be. Kids who have some visible "flaw" are probably the majority. That doesn't stop them from being bullied.

She managed to type the exact point of the comic and still didn't grasp it. Anyone outside the norm is going to have a "flaw". But I think to say being fat is a " "flaw" " is dangerously ignorant. Know what's worse than ignorance? Willful ignorance. Sure, being pointed out things that are unhappy about your physical appearance is mean and upsetting. That doesn't mean the people pointing it out are flawed for seeing it as a problem. The only issue is the way it's being said, and this lady needs to get over the fact that she's been called fatty all her life or whatever. She seems like she'd be one of those people who'd order five cheeseburgers and an extra large fries at a fast food place then request a diet soda.

I would defend my cousin vehemently in daycare when we were younger because she was overweight. She's always been overweight despite the fact that she was very active in high school. Around her senior year, they discovered she had a very serious thyroid problem and once it was operated on, she lost a lot of weight. So sometimes weight really isn't optional, but that doesn't mean you should justify it.

A bit more on topic: I've never really considered Faye fat fat. I view her as one of those cute, heavier set girls who still manage to be very attractive because of their confidence. Yes, they probably break down and have insecurity problems. Just because the casual observer doesn't see it happen doesn't mean it doesn't. I don't think a fat person's going to walk up to someone in public and start conversing and complaining about how fat they are.

Interesting trend: Average sized girls are more insecure about their weight in general than those who're heavier. This is formed from personal observation and not from any real sort of statistic. The end.

[Illumilatte]

I wonder when she's going to write an article complaining about Wall-e. 

[Mars]

Your comment has a great deal of truth in it, but it is actually harder to choose not to be fat over choosing not to smoke.  For most people, the choice to smoke is not available to them until they are in their teens.  But many obese people are that way because of the type of diet they have had since before they were TWO.  I'm sorry, but a toddler doesn't choose to start drinking soda; that is the parent killing their own child.  So people who have been fat for most of their lives will have an uphill battle losing that weight and changing their eating habits, unless they have a lot of support from other people.  This is why obesity is classified as an epidemic and smoking isn't; obesity is a product of culture and family circumstances, even more so than smoking is.  What I'm saying is, fat children often didn't make that choice themselves, and if someone doesn't intervene early, they have increasingly diminishing chances of learning how to lose weight.

Sorry for taking so long to get back to this. I am a busy man, blah blah blah and other excuses.

First of all, there is very real and compelling evidence that growing up in a home with one or more smokers (as I did) may contribute to the decision to smoke in later life, so I don't think it's really accurate to say that smoking is not influenced by parental decisions (which you didn't say, granted, but seem to be implying). Aside from that, at no point did I mean to compare smoking with obesity in terms of breaking the respective habits, although I would contend that anyone who doesn't believe quitting smoking to be exceedingly difficult is clearly someone who's never dealt with an addiction.

Apart from that, I can see your point but don't agree with it. At all.

As stated above, I am a big proponent of personal responsibility. A child, naturally, has a diminished level of responsibility, and an obese child is more the fault of the parents than anything else. This is also true of most character flaws possessed by children, so far as I'm concerned.

Even so, there comes a point when one must accept responsibility for one's own circumstances. An obese adult can no longer blame their parents because once a person reaches adulthood that person is responsible for his or her own lifestyle. This includes diet and level of daily exercise.

Losing weight is not easy. I understand that and did not at any time mean to imply it is. And, as stated above, I don't particularly care if someone is overweight. My point was simply that this is something that is an individual responsibility and that it's moronic to try to blame the rest of the world for 'not accepting fat.' The rest of the world doesn't accept fat because obesity is unhealthy and excepting very rare medical conditions is the individual's own damn fault.

The bottom line is that it's easy to educate oneself on proper diet and exercise. There are myriad resources available online or at the library. One may consult a nutritionist and/or hire a personal trainer, read books, check out websites, watch videos and acquire the information in all manner of other ways. Losing weight is difficult, but it's not complicated. It takes a commitment to better health and better living. If one is not willing to make that commitment that's just dandy, but one must recognize that there are consequences involved in this.

I don't think the people who are a few pounds overweight need to be overly concerned. The BMI system is flawed and the 'obesity epidemic' is a bit overhyped. If you're a male, 6' tall and weigh 200 lbs, you're probably okay (although that will depend on fitness level and body fat percentage). If you're the same male but weigh 350 lbs, then you have a problem. If you're comfortable living that way, more power to you, but it is not healthy, is not universally accepted and under no circumstances should accommodations be made for such people who ultimately have the power to change their circumstances if they're unhappy.

A parapalegic is someone in an unfortunate situation. An amputee is someone in an unfortunate situation. MS, Cystic Fibrosis, ALS, same deal. A fat person is just fat, and while there are people with real problems who need real help I will remain unsympathetic to them getting teased.

[Jepser]

Someone should be able to give constructive criticism, but people should be allowed to take their own responsibility too.
This thing always bothers me with smokers; I disagree with smoking, it's unhealthy for yourself and the people around you. But if someone chooses to smoke, I will not immediately start nagging him/her/them about it. It is their choice, and if I know that they aren't planning to change their choice, I won't bother them. As long as they don't bother me.

I think this should be the same with overweight. Of course you may and should be concerned, and should be able to express that, but if they don't want to come back on their choice, then give them a rest. It's their responsibility.
But I do agree, this blogging girl shouldn't be surprised if there are people who disagree with her lifestyle.

[Mars]

Let's not get too carried away with the smoking analogy. It really does only stretch so far. My point was that you don't hear about people crying for smoke acceptance or declaring that nicotine stains are beautiful. Smokers know that what they're doing is unhealthy and choose to do it anyway regardless of the consequences. I think anyone who lives a lifestyle that leads to obesity is probably aware that it's unhealthy as well. They can choose to live that way if they want; it's the whole idea of fat acceptance that I don't agree with.

For the record, I would say that I probably endure just as much abuse as overweight people do on account of my habit. I get to deal with all manner of people who preach to me about how my habit is going to kill me and does all kinds of harm. I get told that it's causing problems for non-smokers, despite the fact that I take measures to ensure that my smoking doesn't affect them (standing downwind of them, asking before I light up, not smoking around children). I get called all kinds of names because of the choice I made. I take all of it in stride because I know that I've made an unhealthy decision and if people want to judge me solely because of that then that's their lookout. Obese people are going to face the same kind of things, but it's a consequence of their decision and that's just how it is.

You're absolutely right Jepser that people are responsible for their own choices and it's a bit self-important to assume that you know better and to get in their face about it. The issue with the blog linked is that she seems to be surprised and upset that the wider (or thinner, really) public are unaccepting of her lifestyle choice.

[Jepser]

Yes indeed, and she shouldn't. Even though people should try to live and let live, most of the times, they really don't. The best thing you can do then, is either taking value in their opinion, or living your life like you had been, and not getting angry about it.
Nice one in the last line btw. xD

[kurayami]

I looked through the aforementioned blog further just in case there might have been a modicum of intelligence nestled in there somewhere. Then I read this comment that she wrote in response to another commenter:

"What most of us [fat acceptance supporters] have in common is that we don't believe fat determines a person's health, or that a certain lifestyle automatically leads to a certain body type."

Does anyone else see what's wrong with this statement? If things similar to the above are what fat supporters actually believe then that's just really sad. The stupidity espoused by these people is just flabbergasting. I don't consider myself a "fatist", but geez, I don't understand people who are adverse to making better choices for themselves and then howl with outrage when someone calls them on it. I'm sorry, but I don't see how it can be too much effort to put down the cookies, step away from the television and go for a walk.

Meh.

[evernew]

I'm sorry to go back on the smoking thing yet again.

Since February this year, it is no longer allowed to smoke inside restaurants, bars, clubs, concert venues etc. in the federal state where I go to school.
 There have been numerous outcries (our favorite tabloid newspaper had stories about proprietors committing suicide because 80% of their core clientele could no longer visit as usual) and many places that have the layout and financial resources for it have refurbished to have a smoking area (which, also by law, needs to be properly sealed off with a door that cannot be propped open etc.).

A lot of the smokers in that area have been protesting. So have the proprietors. The Supreme Court realized that a lot of these people have a point (you cannot really forbid everything that is potentially bad for a person if you still want your citizens to have freedom of choice etc. - it's a long debate).

A few days ago, the same legislation was introduced in the place where I live. This federal state has about 10 times as many inhabitants. Thus, the outcry was thunderous.

What I'm getting at here is that there are smokers pushing for tolerance. Very similar to fat people.
Their claim to have freedom of choice over their lifestyle is similar as well.
The consequences for themselves are obvious (both choices are unhealthy period; of course there's that one uncle who chainsmoked for 70 years and lived but _in general_ being overweight or being a smoker is not good for you).

The point that has to enter into this discussion is the social consequences. Smokers are expensive patients. Fat people are expensive patients. Both have elevated risks for serious diseases etc. A smoker may directly damage other people through passive smoke. This is where the parallel stops.
But fattiness is still a hazard.
The people who know it isn't healthy and still choose to be fat - in fact, defending to be fat - should IMHO not receive medical treatment unless they pay 100% of it themselves. Same for smokers, by the way.

Now onto something entirely different (but not quite):
My sister is chubby. She likes TV too much, she has no discipline when it comes to food or exercise and she has enough disposable income to have Sex-and-the-City-style cocktail meetings with her fellow chubby 'girlfriends' pretty much weekly. All this is doing her no good.
The rest of the family is pretty slim. My dad has a beer gut but he's working on it and has lost 10 kg in the last year.
We're calling her out on it quite a lot (and she's immensely pissed off by that, we're aware). We're not doing it to hurt her. We're doing it to help her. And sometimes, the heavier a person is, the harder you have to push to get them over the edge.

And RE: that comic with the fat kids mobbing article: I shake my head. Words fail me. I tried to put a medium-critical comment under that post but it probably got
moderated into oblivion with 2-5 mouse clicks administered by a really fat finger.


EDIT: A full-sized picture of the author of the article. Just because I can.

[MC]

I wonder when she's going to write an article complaining about Wall-e. 

yeah no kidding, I can just see it

"Wall-e is an incarnation of fat robotics and Wall-e tries to tell us that our lifestyle is unhealthy, he makes no assumptions toward this at all because I just overanalyze until I see what I wanna see.... but who cares because I'm right! Down with Wall-e and up with irresponsible fat lifestyles. May the grace of the lord fatty cakes be with you all, amen"

[Jepser]

Hur hur, fullsized indeed, evernew.

Things like these honestly make me think of creationists (yes offense). Even when it's utterly, absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to prove that you are not right, they still go, 'yeah, but we don't believe that.' Without giving any kind of proof. Way to ignore facts.

(And no, I don't hate Christians or other monotheists. I just hate people who go on shoving the Bible in your face, telling you to take every single letter literally.)

[MC]

I'm not sure you can say that all theists have this additude and I know quite a few "outside the box" thinkers who act just as you described. I'm not trying to down anyone here and I certainly don't wanna get into a debate about thiesm/atheism as Jeph has asked us very nicely not to approach topics of relegein

why do I think this is worth mentioning? Because I'm actully a theist myself so I was a tad offended but you made it clear thats what you intended so don't mind me

[evernew]

You are also  obsessively  smiling!

This post also serves in showing off my awesome fat avatar. Fat acceptance needs not stop in real life! Avatars have a God-given RIGHT to be fat!

[MC]

You are also  obsessively  smiling!

This post also serves in showing off my awesome fat avatar. Fat acceptance needs not stop in real life! Avatars have a God-given RIGHT to be fat!

are you serious?  Look if your so secure in what you say than why do you go and try to convince the entire world to think like you do? You have the right to be fat and we have the right to not care [or care, or whatever]

EDIT: That being said, that honestly was a very good response in the post before the one in the quote brackets. You laid out your argument very well and I was impressed see? I can give credit where credit is due

I dunno.... I just have a huge disdain for the whole "revolution" mindset. I just think maybe you would have more peace in your life if you just try to maybe stand by what you are convicted by and leave the rest of the world alone. Just my thoughts

[Thlayli]

Holy hell, now I have to go frown at people for a few hours to counteract all those goddamn smiley faces.

 

[Jepser]

I'm not sure you can say that all theists have this additude and I know quite a few "outside the box" thinkers who act just as you described. I'm not trying to down anyone here and I certainly don't wanna get into a debate about thiesm/atheism as Jeph has asked us very nicely not to approach topics of relegein

why do I think this is worth mentioning? Because I'm actully a theist myself so I was a tad offended but you made it clear thats what you intended so don't mind me

I think if all Christians were like Jesus meant them to be, it would be one awesome religion. And I also don't want to debate about these things, to avoid becoming unfriendly, a thing which sadly tends to happen in theological discussions...
Also, if you really think Genesis is completely true, than that's fine. Just don't try to convince me like all those people on youtube do. xD 

Anyway, religious debates closed, back to bashing self-righteous obesity.

[MC]

Just don't try to convince me like all those people on youtube do. xD 

lol! The number 1 problem with youtube? ANYONE can post a video! 

[Jepser]

Well, some people are too dumb to get a video on the internets. And I'm probably glad they are.

[snoppyjanoppy]

I wonder when she's going to write an article complaining about Wall-e. 

[benji]

This thread is getting a little silly, don't you guys think? The woman posted an analysis of a character. The analysis had a few flaws, which have been noted. Let's move on with our lives, shall we?

[snoppyjanoppy]

Nah, I think there's still some flesh around the hooves we haven't beaten off yet.

  that's if Deniselle hasn't eaten it yet.

[Mars]

I'm sorry to go back on the smoking thing yet again.

Since February this year, it is no longer allowed to smoke inside restaurants, bars, clubs, concert venues etc. in the federal state where I go to school.
 There have been numerous outcries (our favorite tabloid newspaper had stories about proprietors committing suicide because 80% of their core clientele could no longer visit as usual) and many places that have the layout and financial resources for it have refurbished to have a smoking area (which, also by law, needs to be properly sealed off with a door that cannot be propped open etc.).

A lot of the smokers in that area have been protesting. So have the proprietors. The Supreme Court realized that a lot of these people have a point (you cannot really forbid everything that is potentially bad for a person if you still want your citizens to have freedom of choice etc. - it's a long debate).

A few days ago, the same legislation was introduced in the place where I live. This federal state has about 10 times as many inhabitants. Thus, the outcry was thunderous.

What I'm getting at here is that there are smokers pushing for tolerance. Very similar to fat people.
Their claim to have freedom of choice over their lifestyle is similar as well.
The consequences for themselves are obvious (both choices are unhealthy period; of course there's that one uncle who chainsmoked for 70 years and lived but _in general_ being overweight or being a smoker is not good for you).

The issue with smoking bans isn't necessarily about acceptance, but rather about freedom of choice. I don't agree with smoking bans because I believe that proprietors should have the option to make that decision for themselves.

Imagine the outcry if a restaurant or bar owner decided that fat people should be cordoned off and segregated.

But really, the smoking thing was only ever intended to be a rough analogy. It's not a 1 to 1 thing, people! It's getting rather silly.

The point that has to enter into this discussion is the social consequences. Smokers are expensive patients. Fat people are expensive patients. Both have elevated risks for serious diseases etc. A smoker may directly damage other people through passive smoke. This is where the parallel stops.
But fattiness is still a hazard.
The people who know it isn't healthy and still choose to be fat - in fact, defending to be fat - should IMHO not receive medical treatment unless they pay 100% of it themselves. Same for smokers, by the way.

The issue with this is where to draw the line. There are a lot of illnesses that are self-inflicted in some way or another. Should melanoma patients have to pay because they didn't wear sunscreen? Should STD patients have to pay because they trusted their partner? Osteoporosis patients because they didn't get enough calcium in their diet?

Refusing people health care based on personal choices is a very dangerous road to go down.

[jeph]

Yeah you got to give people basic health care regardless of what bad decisions they may have made in the past.

Fat Acceptance people really bother me because many of them are advocating an unhealthy lifestyle. It's the same as anorexia-advocates, just on the opposite end of the spectrum. It's like, yes, you should not be discriminated against because of your weight, and yes, not all fat people are that way because they eat too many Big Macs. But the fact remains that being overweight is unhealthy and people should not be unhealthy if they can help it! I say this as a dude who could probably stand to lose about 50 or 60 pounds and is going to the gym to try and do that.

[Thlayli]

The issue with smoking bans isn't necessarily about acceptance, but rather about freedom of choice. I don't agree with smoking bans because I believe that proprietors should have the option to make that decision for themselves.

Imagine the outcry if a restaurant or bar owner decided that fat people should be cordoned off and segregated.

I can't get cancer from secondhand obesity. Smoking is a matter of public safety.

[jeph]

Yeah smoking is actively bad for those around you. I am all in favor of not smoking in public.

[Rocketman]

A bit more on topic: I've never really considered Faye fat fat. I view her as one of those cute, heavier set girls who still manage to be very attractive because of their confidence.

The way you phrase that makes it sound like 'heavier set' is an obstacle to attractiveness. Explain yourself, good sir. 

[Mars]

Why should it need explaining?

Dudes all have different tastes when it comes to women. Some guys aren't attracted to the 'chunky' girls like Faye is portrayed to be. Some guys may consider a girl who is confident and spirited attractive where they may not consider a girl with a similar body type attractive if she didn't possess those qualities.

I can't get cancer from secondhand obesity. Smoking is a matter of public safety.

According to the last studies I read on the subject, the odds of you getting cancer from second hand smoke are exceptionally low unless you're exposed to it on a daily basis. I mean, shit. For perspective, if I quit smoking before I turn 30 the odds of me getting lung cancer are not signifcantly higher than among the general population and I've smoked half a pack a day for years.

Aside from that, if an establishment allows smoking and you don't want to be exposed to it, all you have to do is take your money and business elsewhere. If enough people feel like you do, the change will occur naturally. It shouldn't have to be forced. If we're talking government buildings or public transit or something, I'll agree with you. Outdoors or in a private commercial building like a bar or a restaurant, well that's a different story.

Smoking is really off-topic though. I think we can all agree that fat people who are in denial about being fat and how unhealthy it is suck.

[taekwondogirl]

Why should it need explaining?

Dudes all have different tastes when it comes to women. Some guys aren't attracted to the 'chunky' girls like Faye is portrayed to be. Some guys may consider a girl who is confident and spirited attractive where they may not consider a girl with a similar body type attractive if she didn't possess those qualities.

This is exactly it. If someone's fine with how they look and is confident about it, then it really doesn't matter to me unless it's a health issue. If someone's unhappy about how they look and isn't actually trying to do something constructive about it, that's more indicative of something in the personality. Also I'm imagining the original sir was a joke but um. Yeah. I'm female.

I can't get cancer from secondhand obesity. Smoking is a matter of public safety.

According to the last studies I read on the subject, the odds of you getting cancer from second hand smoke are exceptionally low unless you're exposed to it on a daily basis. I mean, shit. For perspective, if I quit smoking before I turn 30 the odds of me getting lung cancer are not signifcantly higher than among the general population and I've smoked half a pack a day for years.

Aside from that, if an establishment allows smoking and you don't want to be exposed to it, all you have to do is take your money and business elsewhere. If enough people feel like you do, the change will occur naturally. It shouldn't have to be forced. If we're talking government buildings or public transit or something, I'll agree with you. Outdoors or in a private commercial building like a bar or a restaurant, well that's a different story.

Smoking is really off-topic though. I think we can all agree that fat people who are in denial about being fat and how unhealthy it is suck.

Cancer is not the only problem smoking causes, and there are many other health risks associated with second hand smoke. You have a point about not going anywhere that allows smoking and using your money to decide, but the fact of the matter is there are too many smokers for any restaurant to choose really of their own accord to be completely smoke free.

Being fat affects yourself and people who care about you. Smoking affects you, people who care about you, and everyone in the vicinity. To what degree is up for debate, but I've never met someone who's argued that smoking is healthy for the smoker. They might argue for acceptance of their lifestyle for other reasons, but the point is that they aren't deluded into thinking a choice they've made doesn't harm them.

[Illumilatte]

I live near Austin, TX and they passed a smoking ban about 3 or so years ago...back when I was working in a bar as a Hostess. I was thankful for it, as I'm not a smoker(except occasionally at a hooka bar) and I really don't care for it...but if I had to choose between having my job and dealing with some smoke, I probably would've chosen my job. *shrugs*

The town I live in, about 30 miles south and it still allows smoking in bars. I go out to Karaoke at the bar on Wednesdays usually and I deal with the smoke, and I'm not that annoyed...but still, I find it pretty gross. I hate how I smell when I come home. I don't see why it's such a big deal to not smoke in a bar or restaurant considering you can step outside for a smoke break. My friends who are smokers don't smoke in their own house so that it doesn't smell...why should it be so different at a restaurant?

On the other hand being fat doesn't actually hurt anyone except perhaps yourself. And, likewise with smokers, people know being obese is not good for you, in general makes people think you're less attractive, hurts yourself esteem and various other things discussed. If someone knows the consequences of their actions that are harmless to others, should they just be left alone? Does criticizing help them at all? I think it really depends on the individual and their personality.

But, if you say nothing and act like nothing is wrong...does that make it easier for things like "Fat Acceptance" to start? People who feel like outcasts naturally gather, share their similar opinions and start validating one another. The internet is huge in facilitating this. I've visited many message boards that have this same mentality of "Us against the world!" and sadly it seems like someone joins a group like "Fat Acceptance" that they will put much more effort into changing their paradigm and identity to fit within the new group that accepts them "as is" than towards improving themselves towards the "norm"(in this case losing weight).

In general I don't think all of these groups are bad(though most seem to suffer from the same bad habits and problems), and I don't particularly think anyone should be forced or compelled to be more "normal". I believe everyone should spend their lives gradually improving and they should get to be the person they want to be, and spend their lives pursing whatever they want. But I find it really hard to believe "Fat Acceptance" is really what these people want. It just seems like an easy alternative to a healthy lifestyle. I think if and or when our society starts seeing it as more and more acceptable to be obese and "no connection between being fat and being unhealthy" is when we'll be in more trouble...because then there will be less and less motivation for people to be healthy.

[britMonster]

I wonder when she's going to write an article complaining about Wall-e. 

This made me lol for a good 10 minutes. <3

[bicostp]

Actually, don't Twinkies only have something like 4.5 grams of fat and 150 calories? (That's about as much in one slice of bacon, and you usually see people eat three or four of those at once.) One every once in a while isn't going to kill you (or make you fat), but eating 500 of them in once sitting certainly will.

[Jepser]

I think the problem is when you eat 50 twinkies a day.

Twinkies; one of the mysteries of American culture to me. I know they're some kind of cookie or pastry, but still. Ah well, I'm guessing most of you don't know about tompouces.

[Illumilatte]

I think the problem is when you eat 50 twinkies a day.

Twinkies; one of the mysteries of American culture to me. I know they're some kind of cookie or pastry, but still. Ah well, I'm guessing most of you don't know about tompouces.

The Restaurant/Bar I worked at served FRIED twinkies. People actually liked those things. My husband and I ordered them once just because it seems sooo ridiculous. They were disgusting....then again I hate regular twinkies too. Perhaps if they'd had fried ZebraCakes

[Jepser]

Gawd, frying oil and lots of sugar. Doesn't seem like a very good combination. And I thought Wigu's Macarito 3000 With Cheese or however it was called was bad. xD
(Though tasty.)

On another note, getting off-topic isn't bad considering the topic, right? 

[chASS]

OH MY GOD

SUCK IT UP.

GO EXERCISE.

GOOD GOD.

THERE ARE TOO MANY WALLS OF TEXT.

:/

[evernew]

I'm not denying basic healthcare for everybody.

What I don't want is my tax monies / healthcare contributions vanishing in expensive treatment of smokers OR fatties because both groups have been properly warned about the consequences of their choices. And fat people just cost way more once they get older and their fat-related health problems become more apparent.

If I could (and it wasn't regarded as incredibly insensitive), I would hand out leaflets to obese people that just say MODERATION and EXERCISE in big letters.

To quote a great website (Doubleviking):

But even though the REAL Italian diet contains pasta, those bitches know the key to staying fit and still eating what you want: SMALLER PORTIONS.

And in fact, the pasta portion of a traditional meal (the so called "primo piatto") is, according to the experts at About.com, the size of a CUP. Not a plate. Not a bowl. A fucking CUP.

Any advance in fighting obesity in the population needs to go hand in hand with educational efforts.
And those who see all the signs and still choose to be fat - those people can pay for their fat-related extra treatment from their own goddamn pockets for all I care.
If obesity is subsidized through general healthcare, it clogs up the entire system. Much like fat people do a crowded shopping street.

Oh no.
I am fatophobic.
 

[darth.malie]

Hey, I just wanted to throw my hat into the ring.
I'm short as hell and on the curvy side, and haven't always been 100% cool with that. Not clinically depressed or anything, just less than thrilled. Reading QC and seeing such a prominent character with my body type (and abrasive personality) that was considered attractive was really an ego boost. Faye getting made fun of for being squishy is just that, getting made fun of.
That is all.

[evernew]

I don't pay for the war with my tax monies because I'm not from the States.
I do, however, pay for cancer treatment of chain smokers and the cardiovascular therapy which obese people receive.

A lot of the other health risks you listed are job- or lifestyle-related. Over here, job-related hazards are covered in the event of, let's say, a workplace accident.
Most insurance policies will not cover extreme sports injuries. Why? Because there is a serious risk of something bad happening to you.
Much like smoking or being overweight.

I only smoke occasionally. But I do like sports that make you go fast and I'm aware of the risks that come with this conscious decision. And I'm prepared to accept that whatever medical treatment I may require because of sports injuries, I'm very likely to pay for myself.

Hospitals should treat those people, of course. Hospitals should treat all people. But the general public should not foot the bill for individual risk-taking.

The next point I'm quite a heretic on: I don't believe that more than 2 or 3 percent of the population is unable to lose weight because of their genes.
Let me explain.
I was chubby when I was 12 or 13. I like eating. When I hit a growth spurt, that all went away.
When I was 20 or so, my metabolism settled in a little and I noticed after a period of slacking on sports and eating like I used to that I'd gain weight.
Because I don't like being overweight (#1 reason is that I don't fit into my favorite clothes anymore), I try to maintain a certain level. That's all it is, really. Get to a level which is healthy and maintain it.
Most people I've met who claim that their genes are the problem do not do any sports (let alone doing them regularly) or work out or care about their diet at all.

A peculiar group are the people who grow up chubby and who grow up in a chubby family. You could say that they're obviously a product of their environment. Poorly educated parents, yada yada. But once they are adults (and have the chance to know better), it is up to them. This is right about the point where most people I've met settle into the apathy that their body shape is beyond their control.
Once these people have tried it (not just for shits and giggles, I mean diet, sports, the whole works over a longer period of time) and - despite evidence that they are leading an unnecessarily unhealthy lifestyle - choose to remain overweight, I don't think it's fair to burden society with the extra dollars their treatment costs.

Now this may all be biased and karma may well bite me in the ass if I'm wrong.

But if there's one point I wanted to make here - it is that public healthcare is not responsible for picking up after you. A big part of being a responsible citizen is assuming responsibility for one's actions and behavior - including health and sports. If you choose to accept certain risks in your life, it should be you who takes care of them as well.

[britMonster]

I think the problem is when you eat 50 twinkies a day.

Twinkies; one of the mysteries of American culture to me. I know they're some kind of cookie or pastry, but still. Ah well, I'm guessing most of you don't know about tompouces.

What is a tompouce? Twinkies are a yellow cake-ish thing filled with some sort of creamy stuff. They really are very gross.

[Illumilatte]

What is a tompouce? Twinkies are a yellow cake-ish thing filled with some sort of creamy stuff. They really are very gross.

They are also rumored to be "good"/"fresh" forever...which is why it's amusing the cockroach(another thing that is said will survive forever) in Wall-e is eating it, after there's been no food on earth for 700 years

[Jepser]

I think the problem is when you eat 50 twinkies a day.

Twinkies; one of the mysteries of American culture to me. I know they're some kind of cookie or pastry, but still. Ah well, I'm guessing most of you don't know about tompouces.

What is a tompouce? Twinkies are a yellow cake-ish thing filled with some sort of creamy stuff. They really are very gross.

It's two layers of puff pastry with lots of cream in between, and white or pink icing on top. They're quite tasty, though I believe they're exclusively Dutch/Belgian.

[pwhodges]

[Jepser]

Indeed.
Maybe Napoleon brought them to Norway? I dunno if the French ever were there, though.

[brew]

What I don't want is my tax monies / healthcare contributions vanishing in expensive treatment of smokers OR fatties because both groups have been properly warned about the consequences of their choices. And fat people just cost way more once they get older and their fat-related health problems become more apparent.

I've heard that smokers and fatties actually use less health care overall because of their lower lifespan.

[MC]

I've heard that smokers and fatties actually use less health care overall because of their lower lifespan.

ok.... so they will die sooner, tell me how thats a benefit

[Surgoshan]

But the things that cause their lower lifespans (diabetes, heart disease, cancer) are damn expensive while they're still alive.

[evernew]

Surgoshan said exactly what I was gonna say. Unhealthy people don't just drop dead like they were shot. They decay and it's messy and there's a lot of blood and mucousy substances involved. It's not pretty.

I am from Germany (it was relevant a few posts ago). We don't have as many big people as the States if you can believe those fancy-schmancy statistics but we're getting there. All the signs are there. Shops catering exclusively to obese people. I've witnessed a fatass getting preferential seating on a plane because he couldn't fit into any other damn seat on the entire plane.
Enough of that, though.

One of the reasons why I'm so pissed off about fat people and smokers getting treatment out of the public healthcare is that they are a) aware that they're submitting themselves to health risks and b) that they choose to incur these risks individually but as soon as disaster strikes they want it to be paid by the public.

Hell, I like dangerous and unhealthy stuff, too. But I know that a snowboarding injury will come out of my pocket. (We also have a substantial private healthcare system which is pretty important.)
Now instead of discussing whether snowboarding is actually better for you than being fat or smoking I'll propose that either _all_ of the treatments for those lifestyle-related health risks should be covered under public healthcare - or _none_ of them.

Smokers cost a lot of money. But it remains legal (even though smokers are getting cornered increasingly these days) because they also make a lot of money for poppa federal budget.

Again I'm going knee-deep into that individual choice vs. social costs debate.
My brother and me once discussed a 'license for dangerous living' which you have to apply for and, once you pass medical and psychological exams etc., you are allowed to speed, do soft drugs etc. It's a beautiful concept because it accounts for people having different tolerances for addiction etc. It fails in reality because all the dangerous things you could do potentially affect other people as well (best example is speeding). This is the case with smoking and, more and more so, this is the case with obesity.

Instead of rambling out seemingly random thoughts on the issue, I'll stop now. Maybe 10 to 20 years down the road I'll write a book about it. "What Evernew Thinks About Smoking, Being Fat And Other Dangers To Society." Keep your eyes peeled.

[brew]

But the things that cause their lower lifespans (diabetes, heart disease, cancer) are damn expensive while they're still alive.

Old people get those things too; they just get them later.  Fat people still cost less overall when you look at their lifetime health care, though it may be more concentrated.

Whether or not this is relevant is another story, as it depends on how much they're contributing themselves to the costs.  But I don't think it's so cut-and-dry that they're draining our tax dollars.

[Is it cold in here?]

Here's an attempt to put numbers on lifetime health costs of obesity:
http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0050029&ct=1

Back to Faye, I see her in the range of 25-30% body fat, with a weakness for comfort food (#214, #470).

[Rocketman]

If you're a little overweight like Faye, I don't see an issue. However, people I know who are significantly overweight and endangering their health bother me. I want to tell them that this decision to eat just to eat has significantly shortened their lifespan--was it really worth those extra sandwiches ?

Sure. You only lost the crappy years at the end anyway.