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[evilCarl]

I recently found a thesis this dude named Max Heath (awesome name) wrote for his BA in Arts at Wesleyan University. He's taken a scholarly approach to the wonder and magic of Neutral Milk Hotel's In the Aeroplane Over the Sea, and somehow, it just makes the album even better than before. He notes that "[t]ypically, reviewers have justified this evasion by passing off the album's lyrics as inscrutably enigmatic, and its music as too simplistic to warrant a closer look", and then just blows that kind of thinking out of the water and to the moon Just read it and be happy.

http://www.gloriousnoise.com/features/2008/transience_and_transcendence_1.php

http://www.gloriousnoise.com/features/2008/transience_and_transcendence_2.php

http://www.gloriousnoise.com/features/2008/transience_and_transcendence_3.php

EDIT: Wow, this thing got way out of hand. It might be my fault, I never really specified what I wanted to discuss here. First of all, I don't care whether you like Neutral Milk Hotel or not. Obviously, I do, but I can handle people having differing opinions and tastes. Second, I really don't care about the merits of the article. I'm sorry it has some faggy language. I can't change that, but it does not affect the content of the article in any way. The point I'm trying to make here is that In the Aeroplane Over the Sea, and in fact every piece of work, is influenced by many things that the artist has come across in his/her life. I guess the question I'd like to ask is, "Does knowing the influences allow us to better understand/appreciate a piece of art?" I would argue yes. Without the knowledge that In the Aeroplane Over the Sea is written as a tribute to Anne Frank, the lyrics would just be vaguely interesting psychedelic drivel. Of course, this doesn't mean you have to exhaustively research a piece to enjoy it, and you shouldn't. It's just fun to do.

And for the record, all that "a compelling document that seems to bypass cognition" means is that it "affects you emotionally."

[Jackie Blue]

I've read that.  It pretty much sums up why people need to shut the fuck up about that album.

[De_El]

Hahaha, pointless antagonization.

[Jackie Blue]

I wasn't being pointlessly antagonistic, I really think that paper is a bad thing and a perfect demonstration of Doing Rock Writing Wrong.

 

[Cernunnos]

Please elaborate.

[Inlander]

For starters, no album - nor anything else for that matter - should ever be referred to as "a compelling document that seems to bypass cognition".

I'm afraid it looks like the guy who wrote that paper is in the early stages of that horrible disease known as Academic Writing Syndrome.

[michaelicious]

"a compelling document that seems to bypass cognition".

What a wank.

[Cernunnos]

Okay yeah. Definitely wank.

[De_El]

Oh alright. I misunderstood. My bad.

Edit: This sounds really glib and annoying but it's not supposed to be. I apologize.

[evilCarl]

For starters, no album - nor anything else for that matter - should ever be referred to as "a compelling document that seems to bypass cognition".

I'm afraid it looks like the guy who wrote that paper is in the early stages of that horrible disease known as Academic Writing Syndrome.

I don't know why writing for academia is automatically a bad thing. Of course, there are many pitfalls that just cause a self sustaining system of thought that has no real relevance to anything (see post-modernism), but that doesn't mean every article is invalid. This article is a perfect example of scholarly papers down right. All Heath is doing is making connections between the album and The Diary of Anne Frank to help understand it better and, hopefully, increase the enjoyment in listening. Nobody is saying this is the end all be all of interpretations of the album.

[Inlander]

I'm not arguing with the content of the thesis - I'm hardly in a position to do so, I could barely handle reading the first section. I'm saying that the manner in which the thesis is written - or at least the bit that I read - is unnecessarily pretentious and jargonistic, which seems to be a frequent problem in Academia.

[ALoveSupreme]

maybe this:

[img width= height=]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/addiocielo/cnh.jpg[/img]

[onewheelwizzard]

Man I forgot how good that Calvin and Hobbes strip was.

[Thrillho]

I've read that.  It pretty much sums up why people need to shut the fuck up about that album.

Mate, you just need to look in different places. I'd never fucking heard of this album - or indeed, this appallingly named band - before registering on this forum. Just stop looking, man.

[el_loco_avs]

I've read that.  It pretty much sums up why people need to shut the fuck up about that album.

Mate, you just need to look in different places. I'd never fucking heard of this album - or indeed, this appallingly named band - before registering on this forum. Just stop looking, man.

Erm. How the hell? It's "officially" one of the top 5 albums of the 90s. You'd have to try hard to avoid talk about this album on any music related forum.

[Spluff]

Indie related music forum, yes. Any other genre, no.

[Thrillho]

I've read that.  It pretty much sums up why people need to shut the fuck up about that album.

Mate, you just need to look in different places. I'd never fucking heard of this album - or indeed, this appallingly named band - before registering on this forum. Just stop looking, man.

Erm. How the hell? It's "officially" one of the top 5 albums of the 90s. You'd have to try hard to avoid talk about this album on any music related forum.

Well the 15-20 other music forusm I've been on would beg to differ. Quite apart from, 'officially?' Where are you getting that from?? Even in quotation marks I'm doubting your sources.

[Johnny C]

Anyone with a passing familiarity of American independent music in the last thirty years has listened to In The Aeroplane Over The Sea at least four times.

[Hat]

Of course that is significantly smaller than the number of people that would turn out to one Kings of Leon show.

[pwhodges]

unnecessarily pretentious and jargonistic, which seems to be a frequent problem in Academia.

It's just a style; it's easy enough to ignore with a little practice, as the pretentious bits usual contain no meaning anyway.  I found the article interesting, but enjoy the music the same as I did before reading it - but then I can't think of any music, whether Bach or Beatles, whose effect on me was changed by reading academic studies (which is not to say that those studies are not interesting or worthwhile).

[Inlander]

I find it pretty difficult to ignore style. Comes from writing too much myself, maybe: I'm always paying attention to how someone writes, gleaning stylistic devices for use in my own writing, being appalled by bad grammar or choice of words. Sometimes I even "correct" a sentence in my head if I don't like the way it's written. I'm sure you listen to recordings with a much more critical ear than most of the rest of us; same thing with me and the written word.

[el_loco_avs]

Well the 15-20 other music forusm I've been on would beg to differ. Quite apart from, 'officially?' Where are you getting that from?? Even in quotation marks I'm doubting your sources.

'officially' was meant as 'multiple magazines say'  

A quick look on wikipedia:

Nude as the News    U.S.    The 100 Most Compelling Albums of the 90s    1999    #3
Magnet                    U.S.    Top 60 Albums, 1993-2003                             2003    #1
Pitchfork Media            U.S.    Top 100 Albums of the 1990s                         2003    #4

"It is currently ranked as the 53rd greatest album of all time on Rate Your Music"

[el_loco_avs]

Indie related music forum, yes. Any other genre, no.

Considering I've come across discussions about teh album on Fark.com of all places...

[Johnny C]

It's just a style; it's easy enough to ignore with a little practice, as the pretentious bits usual contain no meaning anyway.  I found the article interesting, but enjoy the music the same as I did before reading it - but then I can't think of any music, whether Bach or Beatles, whose effect on me was changed by reading academic studies (which is not to say that those studies are not interesting or worthwhile).

But does its prevalence in academia make clumsy writing acceptable?

[spoon_of_grimbo]

Okay yeah. Definitely wank.

i'd say that's a perfect review of the album.

seriously, i'm not the type of person who's quick to call something overrated, but ITAOTS is easily the most overrated album i've ever heard.  i'd go as far as to say it's fucking terrible.

[Hat]

Honestly, how many of you have read the whole thing? I only ask because that galling first sentence and the ridiculous title aside, it doesn't read too badly. It's well structured and isn't particularly obfuscatory in the way it's written. My only problem with it, and this might be because it was edited down, but it really doesn't leave you with the impression of having understood the album any better for having read it, which as I understand, is the point of this whole fancy academic writing business the kids are talking about lately. (In the arts anyway).

[pwhodges]

But does its prevalence in academia make clumsy writing acceptable?

No; but you still learn to dissociate the style from the content, particularly when the purple prose is mainly concentrated in a beginning intended to impress.

[Thrillho]

Well the 15-20 other music forusm I've been on would beg to differ. Quite apart from, 'officially?' Where are you getting that from?? Even in quotation marks I'm doubting your sources.

'officially' was meant as 'multiple magazines say'  

A quick look on wikipedia:

Nude as the News    U.S.    The 100 Most Compelling Albums of the 90s    1999    #3
Magnet                    U.S.    Top 60 Albums, 1993-2003                             2003    #1
Pitchfork Media            U.S.    Top 100 Albums of the 1990s                         2003    #4

"It is currently ranked as the 53rd greatest album of all time on Rate Your Music"

This might be just because they're American, but I've never heard of either Nude or Magnet (who does a top 60 anyway? 100 or 50, yeah, maybe even 75, but 60???). And as for Pitchfork, Lord knows if you just sing out of tune and have shitty production you'll probably have a 10.0. To be fair, I've never listened to this album, but that's because I can't stand all the wank written about it on this board.

[Dimmukane]

True Fact: I have not listened to the entire album.  I listened to a couple songs (including Two-Headed Carrot Sister or whatever), decided "this probably could've been on the Royal Tenenbaums soundtrack" and haven't listened to it since.

[Cernunnos]

To be fair, I've never listened to this album, but that's because I can't stand all the wank written about it on this board.

To be fair, that's an attitude that will close you off to a lot of good music.  People actually praise things that are worthwhile quite often, believe it or not. Even hipsters. Either way, if you haven't listened to it, it's not really fair to complain about it, or even complain about the praise it is given. how would you know if any of us should praise it profusely or not? Quite honestly, none of us should; it's good, but not anywhere near that good, but that's beside the point. Green Eggs and Ham, man. 

[spoon_of_grimbo]

^this fella is right, generally speaking, but seriously, don't waste your time on this album.

[De_El]

Or! Waste your time however you like.

[Thrillho]

To be fair, I've never listened to this album, but that's because I can't stand all the wank written about it on this board.

To be fair, that's an attitude that will close you off to a lot of good music.  People actually praise things that are worthwhile quite often, believe it or not. Even hipsters. Either way, if you haven't listened to it, it's not really fair to complain about it, or even complain about the praise it is given. how would you know if any of us should praise it profusely or not? Quite honestly, none of us should; it's good, but not anywhere near that good, but that's beside the point. Green Eggs and Ham, man. 

I don't just ignore all music that gets praised, it's this specific album, because I never hear about it anywhere else, only on here, and it's incessant. Loads of my favourite bands - Pink Floyd for one - are hilariously overpraised. I don't close myself off to other things due to overpraise, it's just this record, this forum.

[Scandanavian War Machine]

Anyone with a passing familiarity of American independent music in the last thirty years has listened to In The Aeroplane Over The Sea at least four times.

ah ha!

i've only listened to it once! it was pretty uninteresting.

however, some of my favorite bands contain members of NMH so it's not like they're bad at music. i just wasn't excited by that album.

[_yoda]

Every time NMH is brought up I get a good few minutes' entertainment, specifically because of the ITAOTS fanboys that seem to consider it the Most. Important. Album. Ever. Now, notice I am not debating the claims of "Best Album Ever" - that's subjective - but "Most Important" is entirely laughable. Even "one of the most important albums ever" is a laughable claim.

As already discussed, this album is insanely tiny in the scheme of influential albums. To be important, it needs to have cultural saturation and, even more importantly, have an influence on a broad cross-section of culture (or at least a significant demographic)

ITAOTS has none of this. It is an album whose primary demographic is music critics and extreme record nerds. In fact, I know a *lot* of record nerds with a fairly in-depth knowledge of music and they know little or nothing about this album.

Now, this isn't to say your appreciation of this record is invalid. But geesh guys, this album is really not that big a deal in terms of who it has affected. It's had a major influence on only the smallest slice of the music buying population.

And far out, if an album *can't* break beyond an audience of music critics and extreme record nerds then that, in and of itself, is a flaw.

I am not a person to judge music by sales - far from it - but this is one of those albums that has been blown out of proportion.

All IMHO, of course.

[Inlander]

And far out, if an album *can't* break beyond an audience of music critics and extreme record nerds then that, in and of itself, is a flaw.

Everything you said is reasonable except for this, which is rather absurd.

[Cernunnos]

I don't just ignore all music that gets praised, it's this specific album, because I never hear about it anywhere else, only on here, and it's incessant. Loads of my favourite bands - Pink Floyd for one - are hilariously overpraised. I don't close myself off to other things due to overpraise, it's just this record, this forum.

So, because "we" like it, and "nobody else"(ha.) does, it must suck? Do you really think the rest of the forum has such bad taste? Also, if this thread makes anything clear, it's that this forum does not actually jump on Mangum's nuts like you say. Even if that were the case, there are still plenty of voices claiming this to be a good album that are not, in fact, quite so vehement, prone to exaggeration, or talking out of their ass.

It's painfully obvious this album has been talked about too much anyways. So I'm gonna stop now.

[JediBendu]

Dudes it's a pretty good album. To refuse to try it out is probably more pretentious than talking about it too much.

@DK: Where the hell have you been living, man? In my social circles a good deal of people who've never even seen this forum have known about and generally like ITAOTS a lot more than I do. I'm constantly meeting people who are big NMH fans. From music nerds to attractive college girls to the odd, average Joe Blow.

Seriously if you think people don't really know and praise this album all the time outside of this forum then I wouldn't really trust your appraisal on the importance or popularity of any album.

Edit: Yeah that essay is pretty bad.

[MrBlu]

I'm not arguing with the content of the thesis - I'm hardly in a position to do so, I could barely handle reading the first section. I'm saying that the manner in which the thesis is written - or at least the bit that I read - is unnecessarily pretentious and jargonistic, which seems to be a frequent problem in Academia.

Fact: when you hit that stage and start using superfluous language, it doesn't make you special, it makes you look like you have a chronic case of explosive logorrhoea.

[Cire27]

Yes the album is highly overrated, but the people hating on it because of that are, frankly, being stupid.  Hell, I like the album.  It's in my top ten favorites, even.  But people, it's just a pop album. Some people are going to like it, some are going to hate it, and some people are going to write shitty papers on it.  Hating it for its popularity, though, is just one of the biggest damn fallacies I can imagine.

I'm really starting to hate this whole arguing over it thing.  Can we not?

[Hat]

I would love to see this guy write a paper on the Decemberists.

[billiumbean]

I heard Neutral Milk Hotel once and it sucked.

So there's my argument.

[el_loco_avs]

This might be just because they're American, but I've never heard of either Nude or Magnet (who does a top 60 anyway? 100 or 50, yeah, maybe even 75, but 60???). And as for Pitchfork, Lord knows if you just sing out of tune and have shitty production you'll probably have a 10.0. To be fair, I've never listened to this album, but that's because I can't stand all the wank written about it on this board.

Sounds like your mind is pretty set without any first-person experience of this album.

*snip*
It is an album whose primary demographic is music critics and extreme record nerds. In fact, I know a *lot* of record nerds with a fairly in-depth knowledge of music and they know little or nothing about this album.
*snip*

Well then their knowledge is not that in-depth. I know people that *don't* have in-depth knowledge and they're quite aware of this album's existance.

Yes the album is highly overrated, but the people hating on it because of that are, frankly, being stupid.  Hell, I like the album.  It's in my top ten favorites, even.  But people, it's just a pop album. Some people are going to like it, some are going to hate it, and some people are going to write shitty papers on it.  Hating it for its popularity, though, is just one of the biggest damn fallacies I can imagine.

I'm mostly amused that the detractors of this album come from the "noone knows about this, it's irrelevant"  and the "it's too popular to be any good" groups. 

[David_Dovey]

I would love to see this guy write a paper on the Decemberists.

I would like to see Colin Meloy write a paper on Jeff Mangum

[Thrillho]

So, because "we" like it, and "nobody else"(ha.) does, it must suck? Do you really think the rest of the forum has such bad taste? Also, if this thread makes anything clear, it's that this forum does not actually jump on Mangum's nuts like you say. Even if that were the case, there are still plenty of voices claiming this to be a good album that are not, in fact, quite so vehement, prone to exaggeration, or talking out of their ass.

I don't recall saying I thought it was a bad album. I just have no interest in becoming one of this gibbering mass.

Sounds like your mind is pretty set without any first-person experience of this album.

That's 'cause it is.

@DK: Where the hell have you been living, man? In my social circles a good deal of people who've never even seen this forum have known about and generally like ITAOTS a lot more than I do. I'm constantly meeting people who are big NMH fans. From music nerds to attractive college girls to the odd, average Joe Blow.

And what social circles do you frequent?

[Inlander]

Hey, here's an idea: how about instead of turning this into yet another tedious thread about whether In the Aeroplane Over the Sea is any good, how about we go back to discussing whether the article about it is any good?

Or you lovers and haters can continue smacking your head against the brick wall of opposing opinion, your choice.

[Gurkburk]

I'll just leave this here:

Yeah, this thread will have outlived whatever usefulness as soon as somebody comes in and says "rap music".

Not to say what's been said in just about every other thread remotely like this, but I think it's mostly a matter of taste. I mean, there are lots of bands that people have eargasms over. Around here it's stuff like Explosions in the Sky, DFA 1979, BSS and its satellites, Okkervil River, whatever. People even go so far as to call them "life-changing", and even if I can see the appeal of these acts I can't really say that I like them at all. Thing is, when you hear so much about how great something is and you don't get the same reaction as other people you get the urge to say that no, they really aren't that great. And that's where I think a lot of talk of bands being overrated comes from. But I like to believe that most artists put as much work into their material as anybody else, and that my ear is not an impeccable instrument for discerning quality. I don't think it's fair to shit all over a band because I can't enjoy them the way others can.

[el_loco_avs]

Hey, here's an idea: how about instead of turning this into yet another tedious thread about whether In the Aeroplane Over the Sea is any good, how about we go back to discussing whether the article about it is any good?

Or you lovers and haters can continue smacking your head against the brick wall of opposing opinion, your choice.

Article seemed well researched and thought out. Couldn't make it all the way through though.

[Thrillho]

Hey, here's an idea: how about instead of turning this into yet another tedious thread about whether In the Aeroplane Over the Sea is any good, how about we go back to discussing whether the article about it is any good?

Or you lovers and haters can continue smacking your head against the brick wall of opposing opinion, your choice.

Don't be ridiculous 

[Jackie Blue]

here is a very good illustration of why the article is retarded:

"The chord progression consists of E major alternating with C major, but the melody of the first section superimposes E natural minor over the E major chord.  Here Mangum's loud, deep voice dominates the guitar's tonality, which buries its major thirds by emphasizing the low fifth.  Though the major tonality is clear during the instrumental breaks, as he sings the minor vocal melody all but obliterates the major key.  This domination reflects the song's subject matter, which laments the imposition of one force upon another, the invasion of suffering where it does not belong."

yes, right, of course.  it has nothing to do with jeff mangum having very limited guitar and singing ability.

i mean that paragraph makes LOST fan theories look downright sensible.