Topic: WCT: Feb 23 - 27 (Read 92957 times)

snubnose · « **Reply #150 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 02:10 »

I'm getting a bit puzzled about some people here. May I direct you kindly back to reading strip #1334 again ?

> "... this is not the best behavior, but its just some innocent kissing."
> "This is beginning to be ... bad."
> "Okay now I'm officiall screwed"

=> Sven knew it was a bad idea even when it happened.

This "oh but he was so honest" thing some people have going on here ignores the fact that Sven totally knew he was doing wrong - and he felt bad about it while doing it, too.

The point here is that he is NOT honest, as he is fooling himself.

roxy255 · « **Reply #151 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 02:34 »

"she was a good time" ? ouch

Siibillam-Law · « **Reply #152 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 04:00 »

SMACK!

Hahaha

PHeller · « **Reply #153 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 04:07 »

I'll admit it...I had to google "self-immolate".

"I liked Faye, she was the best sorta stable completely crazy fuck I've had!"

orgasmtechnician · « **Reply #154 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 04:17 »

Quote from: PHeller on 25 Feb 2009, 04:07

I'll admit it...I had to google "self-immolate".

Same

Norton Quintessential · « **Reply #155 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 04:34 »

Quote from: snubnose on 24 Feb 2009, 23:47

Oh, this even only keeps getting better.

So your definition of "true" friends includes the ability to sweet-talk ?

Someone who is bad with words cannot be a true friend ?

It was a joke.

Border Reiver · « **Reply #156 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 04:42 »

Quote from: Zingoleb on 25 Feb 2009, 00:31

Sven did nothing wrong? Trust me, I don't think Sven should be grouped in as an EVIL BAD PERSON like some people are doing, but I still think he did something wrong - he deeply hurt someone that obviously means something to him.

Agree, and if Sven didn't think that he did something wrong, why does he feel bad about it?

It's a gender reversal of "the Lady doth protest too much"

BryanP · « **Reply #157 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 05:51 »

He was questioning himself as he was doing it. Generally that's a sign that you know you're doing The Wrong Thing.

Superkid11 · « **Reply #158 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 06:06 »

He was also drunk at the time. I think if he was sober at the time they wouldn't have done it. :p Being drunk tends to do that to you.
Sven's still on my favorites list. He feels bad that he hurt her at least.

Now who's betting on Sven going out to get some air and finding Steve living in a box?

lisavilisa · « **Reply #159 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 07:06 »

Yes or No: Is it possible to do something that is Not wrong, but still feel bad about it?

Mallli_kite · « **Reply #160 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 07:37 »

Quote from: lisavilisa on 25 Feb 2009, 07:06

Yes or No: Is it possible to do something that is Not wrong, but still feel bad about it?

Oh sure it is -- for some folks, guilt is an automatic reactions. Not Sven, I'm guessing, but for some. It has more to do with how you feel about yourself than what actually happened.

I have bided. Biding is complete.

On the comic -- great perspectives! Nice work. "Self-immolation" line was excellent.

On Dora/Sven violence -- it's built into the strip at this point, and like it or not, people do this kind of stuff. I don't personally approve or condone physical violence and I don't think size, gender, or age gives someone a "right" or an out on the subject. However, Mr. Jacques is neither required to shape his art as an ideal society of ideal people, nor is that going to make a good comic that more or less reflects what happens in the world. It is a comic. Like a book, a tv show, a movie, or any other form of entertainment that doesn't suit, it can be Not Looked At. I have serious doubts that the artis has an agenda to support woman on man violence. We tend to react to pain by either crying, laughing, or getting angry (there are other reactions, but I'd rather not go there). He's going for the laugh, not the political statement.

On Sven being an ass/Sven hate -- Yeah, his language is full of the "not my fault" nuances. He's not yet taking big responsibility for it, although I'd venture this is probably the MOST responsibility he's EVER taken. We have no evidence that he's ever even had the THOUGHT that his actions might hurt someone. I've said it before -- this is new ground for Sven. It's going to take him more than two days (since we are still on the Sunday-After-The-Concert) to really process this and grow. Moreover, he's not doing the one thing to guarantee his assholery -- he isn't blaming anyone else. He isn't saying "Look, it's her fault for..." or "Look, it was the alcohol..." or anything like that. Assholery is doing something that causes pain to others, and then blaming others.

On It Being Faye's Fault -- yes, it is, at least in part. No matter what excuses are thrown up, she has to be allowed responsibility for her own choices. No one promised her candy. No one tied her up and forced her into sex with Sven. She wasn't ordered by the Ghost of her father, all Hamlet style. She's intelligent and responsible for herself. If she made choices that ended in her getting hurt, she still made the choices along the way -- what's more, she KNOWS it. She said it in the strip with Marten. Don't deny her the province of adulthood. None of that means her hurt isn't valid, or any bullshit about "she deserved it". Faye doesn't deserve to be hurt, but, yeah, she can do things that result in being hurt.

Whoa, diatribe. Ok, last things.

I'm really surprised at the nuance and depth this comic has achieved. It's VERY involving.

Time for new biding.

wargrafix · « **Reply #161 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 07:44 »

Faye is a bit of a pussy for running and crying to everyone about her one night stand arrangements.

Sven may be at fault to an extent, but he has nothing to do with her impression of what "relationship" idea Faye was getting.

disaacs · « **Reply #162 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 08:15 »

Quote from: wargrafix on 25 Feb 2009, 07:44

Faye is a bit of a pussy for running and crying to everyone about her one night stand arrangements.

It was originally a one-night stand arrangement, and then it became a friends-with-benefits arrangement. And then I think Faye (and Sven to some extent) were just beginning to suspect it could grow into something more meaningful.

If Sven had gone a-screwin' soon after the first Faye/Sven hookup, Faye would have gotten a bit pissed off (mostly at herself), shrugged, and moved on. She was just beginning to believe that maybe Sven could really have changed, when it was rubbed in her face that he hasn't. At least not on the outside. It is interesting that nobody except Sven knows that he was regretting his actions while he was doing them, and for the first time Sven has been hurt by his own actions. This might be a big life lesson for him. Maybe he has changed, but unfortunately he's sacrificed Faye in the process.

Blyss · « **Reply #163 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 09:03 »

Faye's hurt - Sven's grown (if only a TINY bit), and they both learned something...

...I think.

It bugs me a little that he's still being non-apologetic in a way - but he was honest at least.

Meh.

**sits and waits for the next comic**

Mominator · « **Reply #164 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 10:36 »

Quote from: wargrafix on 25 Feb 2009, 07:44

Faye is a bit of a pussy for running and crying to everyone about her one night stand arrangements.

Do you really think so? A very typical reaction for a girl is to cry on a friend's shoulder. I think that she shows healing and getting out of her crazy box by running to Dora instead of drinking or whatever. She is also exhibiting a lot of trust in Dora, so that is very good for their friendship, which got all weird when Dora and Marten got together.

Sven, however... he KNEW it was wrong, but he still did it. I hope he takes his brain out of his pants some more and hopefully he will see what he did to Faye (yeah yeah, I know, she did part of this to herself) and maybe offer some token of apology? Or maybe try to patch it up? I dunno, I LIKED Svaye!

Faye = healthy response so far
Sven = dumbass

raoullefere · « **Reply #165 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 11:15 »

Drat you, Mali-Kite, them's my lines. Ah, well. I will add that, except for setting the AnthroPCs on poor Gina, Faye's handling this pretty well. It's just a shame she had to invest, whether she meant to or not, so much in a guaranteed train wreck. But I haven't seen her say "how could he do this to me?" Rather, it's been, "I should have known, but it still hurts." I think that's about as objective as she can get at this point, and it gives me hopes she can pick herself up and try again.

As for Sven, all I can say is HA HA!, to quote the kid from the Simpsons. If I had any doubts, the "She was a good time," remark dispelled them: I have a real problem with objectifying people who think you at least have friendly feelings towards them.

For those who wish to protest the smacking and whackings (okay, just a smacking) on Sven's poor tender head*, how many times has Sven said Dora would kill him if he slept with one of her friends? It seems that was a promise, not a threat. To paraphrase Tennessee Williams, Sven and Dora have had this date coming from the beginning.

The panel with Dora looming over Sven is awesome.

*It's my day for quoting. That's from Lloyd Alexander's The Chronicles of Prydain.

bhtooefr · « **Reply #166 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 11:24 »

Yeah, that "she was a good time" line definitely means he's being an asshole.

Random832 · « **Reply #167 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 11:46 »

Quote from: bhtooefr on 25 Feb 2009, 11:24

Yeah, that "she was a good time" line definitely means he's being an asshole.

Is that actually what he thinks or is it a defense mechanism?

HappyGrar · « **Reply #168 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 12:00 »

[rabblerouse]

Isn't this generally when Skawronska jumps in and says "WAHAHAHA FAYE'S IN PAIN THIS IS SO GIVING ME A BONER I NEED A DRINK BURN FAYE BURN", thus elegantly refuting the existing argument that Sven's being kind of a prick and Faye's handling it fairly well?

[/rabblerouse]

I think I'm getting the hang of these-here forum thingies.

maddness · « **Reply #169 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 12:01 »

Quote from: wargrafix on 25 Feb 2009, 07:44

Faye is a bit of a pussy for running and crying to everyone about her one night stand arrangements.

When guys run crying to their friends they're called pussies for acting like girls. Faye is actually a girl.

The male instinct is not to show weakness, especially when hurt, while females, who are more communicative by nature, turn to others for support. In Faye's case this is a huge step forward. She's been damaged and so generally keeps things in because she can't trust those around her. This leads to drinking and violence for her. That she's trusting these people and not doing something destructive to cope is just another sign that she's dealing with her issues.

Sven does seem to be objectifying Faye with the good time statement, but in the very same speech bubble he said that he liked her. Maybe he's trying to put the whole situation on a level he's comfortable with. He's not used to caring about a girls feelings when he screws them over. I think it bothers him that this time he does and he's trying to relegate Faye to the same status as the others.

He says he's sorry for hurting her and he stresses that he never made her promises. So I don't see it as him being unapologetic, I see it as him not willing to be raked across the coals for something he made no commitments about.

Border Reiver · « **Reply #170 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 12:04 »

Doing something that you know will bring pain, emotional or otherwise, to others is still pretty poor behaviour for a person.

Tormuse · « **Reply #171 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 12:24 »

I find it interesting that Sven is using the defense "I was honest!" over and over again, despite the fact that he told his intern that he was planning to hide his actions from Faye. Honesty is a good thing, but being honest, in this case, is only good as far as being the minimum consideration Faye deserves. Being honest is not, however, what Sven intended to do. The way I see it, that makes Sven more of a jerk more than anything else he did.

That being said, at least he gave Faye fair warning that this might happen beforehand. In this strip, after Sven says he might fuck someone else, Faye's remark is "If you fuck someone else, I'll leave" when she could have said "Well, then I'm leaving now." I can sympathize with her for feeling hurt, but she must've known this was coming. (er... no pun intended)

p.s. Regarding the poll, go Ganymede! Second place! Whoo-hoo!

lisavilisa · « **Reply #172 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 12:30 »

Quote from: Tormuse on 25 Feb 2009, 12:24

I find it interesting that Sven is using the defense "I was honest!" over and over again, despite the fact that he told his intern that he was planning to hide his actions from Faye. Honesty is a good thing, but being honest, in this case, is only good as far as being the minimum consideration Faye deserves. Being honest is not, however, what Sven intended to do. The way I see it, that makes Sven more of a jerk more than anything else he did.

Maybe Sven is so used to apologizing for having an affair behind a girls back,that the apologizing for a one night stand that he was honest about is something he isn't used to.

deuxmind · « **Reply #173 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 13:26 »

Quote from: Border Reiver on 25 Feb 2009, 12:04

Doing something that you know will bring pain, emotional or otherwise, to others is still pretty poor behaviour for a person.

Well put.
Whether or not you believe what he did was actually wrong, it still hurt her. which is what sucks.

cgarci21 · « **Reply #174 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 13:36 »

Happily Dora let Sven live to see another day.

I just wonder if maybe a good brother/sister talk might do some good. It may help Sven iron out some of his feelings. Having no siblings of my own I'm not exactly sure how the dynamic works but I hear a good person to help you sort yourself out is a sibling. Dora won't sugarcoat things and Sven won't have to hide anything from her because even if she hates what he does she will still love him...maybe.

athenamarz · « **Reply #175 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 13:40 »

I'm kinda hoping to see some angry grudge make-up sex between Faye and Sven.

Blackcat Moebius · « **Reply #176 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 13:48 »

While my sympathies are not with Sven here (as others have said, his 'honest' defense rings hollow), I did think he scored a point with the "we're not TEN YEARS OLD anymore" comment.

SuperSUGA · « **Reply #177 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 13:52 »

On a side note, Sven's unphased reaction to Dora's slap and saying "we're not 10 anymore" suggests Dora might not have been quite the downtrodden little sister she claims to be. A complete non-reaction to being hit suggests this isn't the first time.

Calina · « **Reply #178 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 15:12 »

Quote from: Sven

Look you think I'm happy about this? I liked Faye. She was a good time

Am I the only person to get that Sven is not happy about this but not willing to recognise that he's the architect of his own unhappiness here?

Darke · « **Reply #179 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 15:19 »

Considering that several others have already pointed out that Sven is not happy with himself... no, I'd hazard a guess that you're not the only one.

TheReaper · « **Reply #180 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 16:15 »

Quote from: deuxmind on 24 Feb 2009, 21:47

I just figure if Sven knew he didn't want to abide by 'da rulez' then he should have told her so. It's his own damn fault.
I do not, however, deny liking Sven. I've known enough guys like him to know most of them are actually good people. Who like sex too much. Oh well. There are worse things to be addicted to. Like murder.

I would disagree.

Quote from: ndperfesser on 24 Feb 2009, 21:54

Because sometimes I like playing with matches in the room with all the open jars of nitroglycerin ...

How different would people's reaction to the strip be in the roles were reversed, Dora cheated on Marten and Sven's first reaction was a left hook that knocked her to the floor?

I'd say she'd deserve it.

sitnspin · « **Reply #181 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 16:55 »

I'm a girl, and I have used the phrase "she was a good time" to describe women I have been with before and didn't mean it disrespectfully. It is just accurate. I wasn't in love with them, but I liked them and I liked spending time with them. I think that is what Sven is saying, he likes Faye and he liked being with her.

If you enjoy the time you spend with someone but don't have deep feeling for them, then how is saying they are a good time bad?

Did he hurt her? Yes. Does this make him an asshole? I don't think so. If he didn't care that she was hurt, then he would be an asshole.

Econoclast · « **Reply #182 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 16:56 »

To be fair, unless Sven contracted a disease, it's really none of Faye's business who he sleeps with... They're not in a relationship. He really didn't need to tell Faye at all, but he did anyway and now he's reaping the inevitable drama that comes from that.

Which just goes to show you: never listen to women, Sven.

aorta · « **Reply #183 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 17:10 »

Well if he did that that would conclude everybody's claim of his douchebagery....and if he did keep that to himself after the fact and kept seeing Faye I don't see how that would have worked towards his favor any better.

Besides people should be aware that your partner is having "relations" with someone else no matter whether they have a disease...which is how the diseaes spread in the first place..which could happen that they don't know and things spread like wild fire

moshimoshi_haihai · « **Reply #184 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 17:18 »

Quote from: athenamarz on 25 Feb 2009, 13:40

I'm kinda hoping to see some angry grudge make-up sex between Faye and Sven.

i'll admit to this too. though...it won't fix anything.

Quote from: Econoclast on 25 Feb 2009, 16:56

To be fair, unless Sven contracted a disease, it's really none of Faye's business who he sleeps with... They're not in a relationship. He really didn't need to tell Faye at all, but he did anyway and now he's reaping the inevitable drama that comes from that.

Which just goes to show you: never listen to women, Sven.

annnnddd....what? are you a real person or just trying to get a rise?

Econoclast · « **Reply #185 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 17:43 »

Quote

annnnddd....what? are you a real person or just trying to get a rise?

What? That's life, pal.

Lost Coastlines · « **Reply #186 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 17:51 »

Quote from: Econoclast on 25 Feb 2009, 16:56

To be fair, unless Sven contracted a disease, it's really none of Faye's business who he sleeps with... They're not in a relationship. He really didn't need to tell Faye at all, but he did anyway and now he's reaping the inevitable drama that comes from that.

Which just goes to show you: never listen to women, Sven.

Really? Faye laid down the conditions of her continued consent quite awhile ago. She told him if he slept with anyone else, she'd be gone. If Sven really wasn't happy with that, then he should have stopped sleeping with her. Just because she jumped him first doesn't mean she is obligated to continue sleeping with him under whatever circumstances he wishes. Any person has the right to make whatever conditions they want for their consent. If the other person finds these conditions unreasonable, then they should walk away. Since Sven didn't do this, he accepted her conditions whether he liked it or not.

Yeah he was being a jerk for hurting her for no good reason (apparently not even his own pleasure), but they weren't in a relationship so what he did wasn't quite cheating. It's not like he's beyond redemption or anything. He told her, she left. No yelling, no bone-breaking. They both acted according to the terms she laid out and he accepted by continuing their arrangement. Faye is within her rights to feel hurt, even if she should have known this was coming. Sven is within his rights to be upset at throwing away good times with Faye for one night in the sack that he didn't really enjoy that much anyway.

Jeff7 · « **Reply #187 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 18:06 »

Cyborg lesbians are fine, but Iapetus is even more awesome.

ModernRonin · « **Reply #188 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 18:13 »

Quote from: Tormuse on 25 Feb 2009, 12:24

That being said, at least he gave Faye fair warning that this might happen beforehand. In this strip, after Sven says he might fuck someone else, Faye's remark is "If you fuck someone else, I'll leave" when she could have said "Well, then I'm leaving now." I can sympathize with her for feeling hurt, but she must've known this was coming. (er... no pun intended)

To be absolutely fair, I believe that Sven should have manned up right then and there and said: "If you're not going to let me sleep with other people, then our relationship (such as it was) is over."

I don't hate Sven. I think he's been perfectly reasonable. He's even a good enough guy to feel bad about about hurting Faye's feelings. But if we're nitpicking, and playing the "coulda-woulda-shoulda" game... then Sven should have shot this drama in the face the second it was born - by refusing to sleep with the crazy girl. I mean really, what did HE expect would happen, sleeping with Faye? The girl's got more issues than a news-stand!!

Mallli_kite · « **Reply #189 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 18:21 »

Quote from: raoullefere on 25 Feb 2009, 11:15

Drat you, Mali-Kite, them's my lines.

Soooorrrryyy

I'll send the braincell back to you. I don't think I damaged it...much. I washed it off and everything.

Ya know, the more I think of the whole "she was a good time" line, the more I think Sven is just trying to convince himself and anyone who is listening that he does NOT care. I mean, if he didn't care, why bother with the honesty thing? Why not just slither the usual way, or even continue banging Faye until the shit hit the fan? I mean, I can see lots of other potential slimy action here. I mean, he could have behaved like my exBF and denied everything while I had the newest bladder infection.

I've seen slime. Sven hasn't made it there yet. He COULD, yeah, and he might, but he still has potential. I'm holding out hope until Sven steps off the cliff into the realm of the irredeemable.

That said, "she was a good time", considering how little evidence we have of anything beyond Faye snarking at Sven/issuing threats and them boinking each other, what would he say? She's a nice person? (has she demonstrated that where he is concerned?) She was smart and funny (again, do we see anything indicating that with Sven in the room?). I think he came up with a reasonable assessment. She provided some good times and not a whole lot beyond.

Tybalt · « **Reply #190 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 18:33 »

Quote from: Jeff7 on 25 Feb 2009, 18:06

Cyborg lesbians are fine, but Iapetus is even more awesome.

At least someone agrees with me.

Is it cold in here? · « **Reply #191 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 18:58 »

Sven may have hurt Faye on another level too.

In 793, well before she jumped him, he said of Faye "She ... made me reconsider my priorities vis a vis casual sex". He turned down Eva, and Faye knew about it.

Actions speak louder than words, and those actions said "I respect you and care enough about your opinion to have it influence my lifestyle". That is a powerful statement and a deep compliment.

Now he has taken that away from her, with an action that says "My priorities about casual sex put it above something that was turning into an actual relationship" and "a drunk one night stand is more important than your opinion of me".

She could have been hurt even if somebody else had been in the bumping-friend position instead of her.

deuxmind · « **Reply #192 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 19:19 »

Quote from: TheReaper on 25 Feb 2009, 16:15

Quote from: deuxmind on 24 Feb 2009, 21:47
I just figure if Sven knew he didn't want to abide by 'da rulez' then he should have told her so. It's his own damn fault.
I do not, however, deny liking Sven. I've known enough guys like him to know most of them are actually good people. Who like sex too much. Oh well. There are worse things to be addicted to. Like murder.
I would disagree.

you disagree that being addicted sex is better than being addicted to murder?
yeah well that's definitely a matter of opinion. i'll give you that.

moshimoshi_haihai · « **Reply #193 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 19:28 »

My first mistake: trying to argue with someone on the internet. these arguments never finish.

I disagree with your former statement, that's all. so much so that I considered the idea that you were expressing was to simply to get someone like me talkin'.
But I probably should have ignored it.

celticgeek · « **Reply #194 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 19:43 »

I want a copy of the "The Big Book Of Kitty Pictures".

lauren! · « **Reply #195 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 19:46 »

Quote from: celticgeek on 25 Feb 2009, 19:43

I want a copy of the "The Big Book Of Kitty Pictures".

There's a book of kitten pictures.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtX8nswnUKU&feature=channel_page

I'm wondering if this video inspired this strip at all?

celticgeek · « **Reply #196 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 19:53 »

It was kind of a joke. I do follow "Cute Overload" as well as "I Can Has Cheezburger".

(Maybe this belongs in the "Guilty Pleasures" thread, instead.)

bhtooefr · « **Reply #197 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 20:01 »

OH NOEZ

FAYE WANTED ALCOHOL IN THAT BOOK

THAT MEANS THAT FAYE IS A CRAZY ALCOHOLIC AND SHOULD BURN IN HELL

OK, now nobody take that seriously, and I am going to facepalm if someone fucking AGREES with that comment.

Kugai · « **Reply #198 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 20:07 »

Well, at least Nat Geo are getting into the warm fuzzies market. Good money there.

Tybalt · « **Reply #199 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 20:24 »

I'm kind of drawing a blank right now, so here is a list of some moons in our solar system.
Callisto    10 (7.4%)
Pandora    12 (8.9%)
Charon    15 (11.1%)
Ganymede    24 (17.8%)
Deimos    8 (5.9%)
Oberon    18 (13.3%)
Iapetus    4 (3%)
Triton slips into Hannelore's room and turns her into a cyborg lesbian    44 (32.6%)

Okay new poll, we're going to do some serious fisticuffs here.

THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)

Poll

alright, time for predictions about next week.

Author Topic: WCT: Feb 23 - 27 (Read 92957 times)

Calina

aorta

moshimoshi_haihai

moshimoshi_haihai