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[iamiam]

tania, since you think everything that i think and say it better than i ever could i am just going to make you my spokesperson from now on.  thanks in advance.

Everything posted since Clara posed her question tells me that I am now utterly surplus to requirements on this forum.

but what would we ever do without our lecherous moses?

[iamiam]

No. I've been here years and half the time I have no idea what the hell these people are going on about.

everything on this forum makes perfect sense to me which is proof that i have spent far, far too much time on the internet.

[Aimless]

Oh Yunior, I wasn't trying to be a tool, I just expressed my wonderings poorly as always

I like myself, like my life, and like most people I've gotten to know... but I still really have a hard time feeling like anyone _else_ can really be _attracted_ to me. Attracted enough, that is, to make me feel secure in it. And as a twisted form of defense I've mostly laid roadblocks everywhere in order to make sure I never get beyond either a friendship or an undefined kind of dating that just doesn't go anywhere.

And I tell myself that I need: to get to know a person better, if I'm to really feel any attraction; to become comfortable with them, before doing something about it; to really feel wanted, and I swear I'll give anyone a chance as long as I like them and I feel they want me specifically, then and there. What I'm really mostly looking for is someone I like who'll take the first step and get me started, make me feel like I'm worth taking a chance on (). I guess I just want to feel irresistible, and I want others to convey that to me in a particular way.

I decided that, crazy as these demands may be, they were important enough that I could wait to have them met.

Not long ago, I was a mess of conflicting desires and needs and self-sabotage, but at some point I decided what it was I was looking for, what I really wanted and needed (may have been lying to myself, what do I know)... and was able to accept that, If I'm not willing to ease up on some of my demands, I might have a hard time getting what I want. I dunno how, but that made things okay for me. Made it easier for me to be happy and to appreciate everything else that was working just fine in my life, to appreciate all the things I hadn't been able/willing to appreciate previously because I was hurting too much about not being loved in the right way. And that was huge, because it turns out that, no matter what I wanted, what I was most in need of at the time... was probably not the right kind of validation so much as to feel happy and at peace.

I'm not entirely sure where I was going with this. None of the above may be of any use to you except to show that, from where you are now, you may end up going down one of several different roads. It might be something like the one I stumbled down, or it might not. I just hope that, whichever road you go down, you end up feeling great. Really really happy and at peace. Even if it isn't the one road you really _really_ wanted to take (although I hope you get that, too). that's enough outta me, obviously some more sorting out left to be done

cheerio!

[ViolentDove]

(Also, is there like a guidebook to these forums or something? Because they're godamn incomprehensible. There are undercurrents and the undercurrents have undercurrents and the undercurrents have meshed together to form some sort of horrible cthonic mass that lurks just beneath the surface and it's always undulating and threatening to throw the entirety of the thread into chaos with its horrible tentacles of subdued meaning...)

I guess this could be because some people have been here for a fair while, and also some people here also chat on other forums, in meebo, facebook, probably some other ways, and also know each other in real life?

Also some people are just kinda silly and don't make much sense anyway, or like to take the piss*.


 *I'm afraid I don't know an American equivalent for this. Anyone?

 

[Janvs]

Thanks for the replies guys, but you misunderstand me.

I am not opposed to the idea of a long-term relationship. I might like to be in one. I've been in two or three before. That's not the issue. I just don't see why a relationship either has to be 'casual' or 'MAWWIAGE material'. I think in year terms, not FOREVER terms. I am concerned that as I grow older, girls will become concerned with procreation and settling down, which will never be options even if I am in love, and I am trying to gauge how much of a problem this will be.

Not to sound rude, since I solicited the advice, but I'm not 16. I didn't come looking for validation for my free-for-all sexy lifestyle.

Sorry for the confusion.

[a pack of wolves]

It depends who you spend your time with really. As you get into your twenties you will find large chunks of people do get very interested in marriage, career, kids and the like. Happily, these are not the people who enjoy hanging about in squats, listening to DIY music and waking up under other people's tables with Big Star on the stereo. So for me the fact that I hate children, am unemployed and am morally opposed to ever having all that much money doesn't cause any problems. My girlfriend hates all of these things too and would stab me thoroughly if I ever proposed to her, but she does like getting hammered and hanging out with righteous dudes. If however you like fairly everyday activities and have mainstream interests then yeah, you probably will get more and more people telling you you're afraid of commitment or need to grow up or some other such nonsense as you get older and might find it hard to get into a relationship with someone who has similar interests.

[20 jazz funk greats]

see, i am sorta mainstream in my interests and plan on having some sort of financially stable future. but the whole marriage and children thing just seems completely unappealing.
i feel like this is going to be a problem for me eventually.

[a pack of wolves]

Fear not, there are a fair few people who aren't interested in marriage or children who have mainstream tastes and life-plans. You've just got a better ratio going on with the disreputable bastards, that's all.

[iamiam]

 i don't get why it's that big of a deal?  it's not like not wanting to get married and have children is such a crazy idea these days.  let's put aside the fact that there are plenty of women (even 'mainstream' ones!) willing to place their careers etc ahead of wanting to raise a family.

i'm pretty set in the idea of not ever wanting to get married, and at least right now i don't think i'll ever really want kids.  however, every guy i've dated has held the typical sentiment of eventually wanting to get married and raise children.  i've always been really upfront in the beginning of the relationship about what my future wants and desires are, and so were they.  it never got in the way of us having fun and being happy together.

 if you are with a sane and rational person, they are going to understand that marriage is not the beginning and end of all things.  they'll weigh their desire for getting married against their desire to be with you and they will probably end up choosing you if they like you enough.  if they are the kind of person that has a set timeline for making babies and finding a husband then they probably have plenty of other qualities and issues which would make them a less than ideal companion for you anyways.

finding a person who has the same desires and expectations from life as you is always going to be hard.  that's why relationships are built on compromise and honesty and will almost never be perfect.  i bet those people who list marriage as a top priority are thinking to themselves 'why is it that no one these days ready to commit?  why is everyone busy running around having casual sex instead of making babies with me??' no one has it easy.

oh and by the way, you know how you don't know if you believe in love and also don't have faith in long-term relationships?  pretty strongly linked.  you are probably going to completely reevaluate your expectations for relationships once you do fall in love. and to answer your question (sort of? maybe? finally?) i wouldn't worry about the fact that you haven't felt this way yet.  some people seem to fall in love with everybody.  some people experience their first love when they're thirty.  just don't worry about it and have fun in the meantime.

EDIT:  i really need to 'preview' before posting

[Reed]

i'm pretty set in the idea of not ever wanting to get married, and at least for now i don't rethink i'll ever really want kids.  however, every guy i've dated has held the typical sentiment of eventually wanting to get married and raise children.  i was always really upfront in the beginning of the relationship about what my future wants and desires were, and so were they.  it never got in the way of us having fun and being happy together.

I think this is a really important point. I really hate the idea that after 18 everyone should be dating solely for the purpose of finding their future spouse/life-partner. Just because two people don't have the same goals and will most likely not be great together in the long run does not mean that they can't have fun in the mean time. As long as you are honest with someone about your wants, there is no reason to not pursue them just because at some point in the future they may or may not want to get married.

[benji]

I was about to write a long post about articulating your wants but Mai (iamiam) pretty much hit it on the head. I see in your post a lot of what you don't want from a relationship. No long-term comitment, no kids, but not just casual either. This puts you in a middle ground which is fine, but it will be easier for you if you can say to someone "this is what I do want out of this relationship."

[Mynah]

Hey guys, remember me?  To save you all from having to go find my old post: my problem, in a nutshell, was that my fiancé decided on the day before our wedding that he couldn't marry me, I was struggling with whether or not we should continue to be in a relationship, and nearly everyone in my family was being extremely immature about the whole thing.

Well, nearly a month has gone by since then, and my situation has evolved.  My fiancé and I ended up deciding to just be friends, after trying the whole "just dating" thing and disliking it.  We found that we just aren't as good for each other in a relationship as we are as just friends, and things are going quite well, even if it is a bit awkward.

But now I have a completely different relationship problem.  While I was getting some time away from everyone, I took a mini-vacation to see one of my best friends who I had not seen in a while.  While seeing him, it dawned on me what a sweet, kind person he has always been to me, and I guess I started to have feelings for him.  At first, I just blew them off, because I figured I was only feeling them because I've been used to feeling similarly about my fiancé, and now that he's not around, I was just projecting those feelings onto my friend.  However, it's been a while since I got back from that vacation, and I'm finding that the feelings are not going away as easily as I thought they would.  This wouldn't be a problem except for two things.  1) I'm not interested in a relationship right now, anyway, because I would like to work out who I am and what my goals in life are before I start bringing someone else's thoughts, feelings, and wishes into the equation; and 2) he has a girlfriend, who is fiercely possessive of him, and would have my head if she knew about this.

So, while the answer seems to be that I should just tell him, explain that I don't want a relationship anyway, and move on, I can't really do that.  If I tell him, I've got his girlfriend to deal with, and I don't think it would be fair of me to tell him that he can't tell her.  I'm also afraid that, even if she wasn't in the equation, it would strain our friendship and I would have not one, but two awkward friendships to deal with.  So... how exactly am I supposed to get rid of these unwanted feelings without making anyone upset or ruining any friendships?

[Yayniall]

If you're not interested in a relationship it seems selfish to indulge yourself in telling him your feeling and then not acting on them, especially if he's already spoken for.
Find somebody else.

[supersheep]

repress them feelings until someone else catches your fancy. then make awkward jokes about it a few years down the line

(advice offered only partly in jest, telling the person is not a good idea. someone will probably come along soon that will appeal to you but not have the baggage of a partner)

[tinysmidgen]

Basically, this is my whole relationship problem. Girls are too flirty when they're just trying to be friendly >.< Or at least that's how it appears to me...help? Preferably girls to answer with secrets about their mysteriousness.

[Alex C]

There's been studies on this and most of it implies that men are shit terrible at picking up on the difference between "flirting" and being friendly, so the problem is likely on your end and there's really not much you can do about it other than keep on plugging along despite getting turned down from time to time. The trickiest bit is the simple fact that not all people misinterpret in the same manner-- it's often split right down the middle between Mr. Oblivious, the dude who doesn't notice interest and the Eternal Optimist, the guy who thinks practically every friendly interaction is flirtatious. And unfortunately, women have to deal with both types of guys, so it's not like there's always an easy way for them to change their approach so that they're always sending the signals they want to send.

[iamiam]

ok yeah so i am one of those girls who all guys tend to think is really flirty when i am really not at all.  i just try and be really nice to everyone i guess because i am just a nice person?  but now i am finding it a little difficult to be myself around straight men because i feel like my motives are constantly misinterpreted.  

i wish i could say to you "if a girl likes you it will be obvious because she will do this-and-this".  but really all girls are different - some are really obviously flirty with every guy who will give them attention, and some are really shy with boys and will give only the subtlest hints when they like someone.

so here is my advice:  if you are not into a girl then you might as well not concern yourself over whether she is flirting with you or not because what difference does it make?  and if you are into a girl and she is being nice to you and you don't know why, then don't worry about whether she is flirting or not and just go ahead and make a move because at the very worst it'll turn out that she's just a really nice friendly person, and she'll probably end up letting you down in a kind, gentle sort of way.

ps, even when a girl is blatantly flirting with you, you should not always take it to mean anything more.  some girls just like to flirt because it's fun or for the attention they get from it!

[Alex C]

I keep trying to post only to find that I belong in the "Better not be sober" thread.

[Masterbainter]

Don't listen it's all lies, she really wants you man.

[De_El]

That would be funnier if you didn't already have a history of saying questionable things about women and personal relationships on this here forum.

[calenlass]

Mai is right: there are some of us that tease and joke around as a means of being friendly, which is apparently what all the other girls do when they flirt. I like flirting! But by god you will know it when it happens. My flirting is I will mow you down, or possibly try to get you alone. I am not a subtle person, but I am also kind of dense when it comes to realising that a dude has decided that our fantastic conversation about astrophysics we just had and the jokes about Carl Sagan are, in fact, an attempt to get into his pants. If I want in your pants, there are more effective ways to do it than talking them off.



Mynah: This is what is known as a "rebound".

[Mynah]

If you're not interested in a relationship it seems selfish to indulge yourself in telling him your feeling and then not acting on them, especially if he's already spoken for.

True.  I guess I wasn't thinking about that before, and, now that you bring it up, it really does sound pretty selfish of me.

Find somebody else.

That's the thing, though.  I don't want anyone right now, not even him.  I just want to know if anyone has any advice on how to get rid of the feelings altogether, instead of just projecting them onto yet another person.  Do I just have to deal with it?  Are there any ways to make it easier?  I can always distract myself, but even that's getting hard, especially since it seems like all I've been doing lately is distracting myself from how I really feel.  I would just try to deal with it, but I have so many different feelings at the moment that whenever I try to deal with any of them, they all hit me like a ton of bricks.  I would like to at least make these annoying ones go away as soon as possible, so I can at least still talk to my best friend without swooning over him like a 13-year-old girl and end up feeling worse.

Does that make any sense?

[Elizzybeth]

Have you considered seeing a therapist?  It can help to have a safe, non-threatening place to air all your dirty laundry once a week without feeling that you're overburdening / putting off family and friends.

There's no quick fix, but talking about and processing your feelings is a lot more helpful than distracting yourself from them or wishing them away.

[iamiam]

feelings don't just go away over night and there is not much you can really do to speed the process.  in fact, sometimes they just never go away at all - they just become tolerable.  time and distance are really the only solutions to letting go after a relationship comes to an end.

the only advice i can give you is try to distance yourself from your ex.  the less time you spend thinking about him the better, and the easiest way to stop thinking about him is to speak to and see him as little as possible.  i know it's really tough because in doing that you are distancing yourself from one of your best friends, but you both may need (more) time apart to let your emotions cool.

at least you recognize that what you are doing is just projecting feelings onto your friend, so there is no use stressing over them or trying to act on it.  just be patient and they'll eventually go away.

[KvP]

Mai's right. At least 6 months I say, as a general rule, should be spent with no contact post-breakup. A friend of mine never broke contact with her ex, indeed she tried to stay good friends with her, being supportive and all that, and the result is that she can't spend more than a few hours with her ex because the ex will cry and profess undying love, because the concern that my friend shows, while good on its face, gives the ex hope that there's still a future with them (the ex is in her mid-twenties and rather fixated on the idea of being validated through a serious relationship). Hanging around someone you've dumped just rips the scabs off every time you see them. It's actually kind of cruel.

[KvP]

[Mynah]

@Elizzybeth: I am actually seeing a therapist, but she's not really much of a help.  When I start talking about my feelings about this whole mess, she diverts the conversation towards things with very little relevance.  That's what I get for choosing the cheap therapist over a good one, but that's a conversation for another time.

I do get what you're saying, though.  I know that it's not very good for me to keep distracting myself, but whenever I try to face the feelings, they come rushing at me at once and I always end up curling into a ball of angst.  When I do get a chance to talk about them instead of dealing with them on my own, though, it does feel much, much better.  Unfortunately, it is a rare occurrence that I come across someone who is willing to listen and not interject their thoughts about how my ex is such a horrible person, what a mistake I made being with him in the first place, and blah blah blah.  Things like that make me want to stop talking to people altogether.

@iamiam and KvP: Thanks for the advice about staying away from my ex, I will keep it in mind.

[a pack of wolves]

Mai's right. At least 6 months I say, as a general rule, should be spent with no contact post-breakup. A friend of mine never broke contact with her ex, indeed she tried to stay good friends with her, being supportive and all that, and the result is that she can't spend more than a few hours with her ex because the ex will cry and profess undying love, because the concern that my friend shows, while good on its face, gives the ex hope that there's still a future with them (the ex is in her mid-twenties and rather fixated on the idea of being validated through a serious relationship). Hanging around someone you've dumped just rips the scabs off every time you see them. It's actually kind of cruel.

This is incredibly relative. My girlfriend has remained living with her ex since they broke up for close to two years now and it's done neither of them any harm. They've remained very close friends and her ex in particular would have been much worse off without this, he would have been left very alone if she'd made a decision to stay away from him for fear of giving him ideas about them getting back together. Not that breaking off contact is always a bad idea, but at the same time it can be a really terrible one that loses you the support of someone who cares about you at a crucial time.

Mynah, it actually sounds like you're dealing with your situation extremely well all in all. Any chance you could change your therapist, or seek alternative counseling such as through work or an educational establishment you attend? Also, when people start banging on about how terrible your ex is do your best to bring them up short. Not always easy and very possibly something you're already doing all the time and getting sick of, but hopefully if they care about you they'll start to listen and realise that what you need is someone to talk things through with not the overblown solidarity condemnation that you're quite rightly sick of.

[tania]

the question whether or not the broken relationship needs distance can probably be answered pretty quickly by simply asking yourself, "can i handle being around this person?"

that might look like possibly the dumbest and most obvious thing i have ever written in this thread, but lots of people don't know the answer to that when they get out of a relationship. so, my very, very overgeneralizing recommendation is that if the answer to that question is neither a yes or a no but an "i don't know"... that's a no. you probably can't handle it. go with the distance. don't try to have any contact unless you are really, really 100% sure you are both emotionally capable of handling it, or else you'll keep doing further damage to yourself at a time when you're supposed to be healing.

[ViolentDove]

re: Telling if girls are flirting/interested and such.

The Confusing Girl is back and asked me out to dinner and a party last Saturday and also gave me a present. We went out just the two of us and had a whole bunch of fun, which was great, but now I'm really fucking confused again as to if she's keen on me or not.

I think the last time I posted here she'd basically said: "I used to like really you, but now I'm not really that into you." and was putting me off if every time I asked her out just the two of us in a date-like situation. Now she's doing the asking out herself, completely umprompted. 

So I guess this is probably what not to do if you want to avoid giving guys the wrong idea?

[Masterbainter]

re: Telling if girls are flirting/interested and such.

She is into you if she asked you out to dinner.

She had a crush on you a long time ago and never acted on it.  Then when you came around again she maybe didn't feel as strongly for you, but the "I never tried him when I wanted to" feeling is still there.  She may have been putting you off recently because she wants to feel you out and see how you react to her after her telling you she used to like you.   Girls that I used to know in Highschool, do this all the time to me when I go back to visit family in my hometown.  Usually an easy date for the night.

Now that you asked her out a couple times and she declined then has come back to ask you out it's pretty obvious.  She wants to give ya a go.  Just don't read to much into it.  Just go with the flow and see what happens.  She's probably just as oblivious to your actions as you are to hers.

[BrittanyMarie]

Nah dude you are probably wrong. Katie and Mai both summed it up. Every girl is different with the flirting and the hanging out. Maybe she wants to be friends with him still? I don't know, I hang out with dudes all the time. Two of my best friends forever are straight cute boys who I wouldn't want to date, ever, but I ask them to hang out like every other day. We even cuddle! Still don't wanna date/make out/bone either of em though.

In Nick's case, that girl really is confusing. She probably doesn't know what she wants either! And that's okay.

(I do agree with the go with the flow and don't read too much into it, just not the "it's pretty obvious. She wants to give you a go" part.)

[Patrick]

Or, you know, you could just ask her straight up if she likes you.

[Jimmy the Squid]

Guys I don't know if this qualifies as relationship advice but...

For the last few days I've been all snappy and pissy at my girlfriend for basically no reason at all. Basically I've been depressed and angry and stressed out of my mind and I've been acting like a dickhead towards my girlfriend so, given that I've had the day off today I've cleaned the flat and I'm in the middle of making a nice big dinner that will be ready for when she gets home from work. I've just put the oxtail stew on for simmering but it won't be ready for another 2-3 hours, while that's going on I've also cleaned the kitchen and made the bed. Ingelise likes everything to be all neat and tidy and one of the only things we disagree on is the cleanliness of the flat (she cares, I don't - Lunchy can attest to this).
Anyway I guess what I'm getting at is should I serve the spinach and mushrooms together or fry the mushrooms in some garlic butter and serve them separately?

[Ballard]

Man, most of the time reading this thread only confuses me more and breaks my resolve. I find the less I think about these things, the more successful I am.

I should add, this applies only to the flirty approach, not the post-relationship healing. You guys are giving some fantastic advice on that.

[Masterbainter]

We even cuddle! Still don't wanna date/make out/bone either of em though.

And they are 100% just fine with "just cuddling" all the time?   I'm not every guy,  but i'm deffinately one of them.

I can't speak for everyone out there, but If a girl asks me out to dinner like to take me out, she usually has something (like feelings) for me.   I know not everyone is the same and I don't try to generalize but it's not wrong to assume that someone that has had a crush on you and now is asking you out on a "date" is probably into ya.


.. i'd like some advice on this...

This girl I knew from work that moved away is moving back.  I never got to out and hang with her when she lived her as I was dating someone that couldn't go out.  Well she is moving back and I asked her if we were gonna go hang out some night.  She pull this line, "you sure your girlfriend is gonna be okay with that?"

Please let me know what that means.  Thank you.

[Nodaisho]

Sounds to me like she is assuming that you are still together with the same girl? Have you been talking with her recently?

[Eris]

Or it could be that she thinks that your girlfriend may have an issue with you hanging out with another girl, just the two of you? It sounds like a fair enough question to me, and pretty straight forward.

[Masterbainter]

Sounds to me like she is assuming that you are still together with the same girl? Have you been talking with her recently?

I am.  She is aware of this.

Or it could be that she thinks that your girlfriend may have an issue with you hanging out with another girl, just the two of you? It sounds like a fair enough question to me, and pretty straight forward.

I'm sure my girl wouldn't be thrilled.  But I would probably bring her with if anything.  Besides can't guys just have girls they hang out with?

I'm not trying to be passive aggressive (I know it is).. Why would this girl think it would be a problem for me to go out and hang out with her as a friend?

[Slick]

She wants in your pants. Stockpile condoms.

[Masterbainter]

freaking knew it!  I should ask my girl if she's down for 3 somes!

[Zingoleb]

Anyway I guess what I'm getting at is should I serve the spinach and mushrooms together or fry the mushrooms in some garlic butter and serve them separately?

Fry them in garlic butter and serve them separately.

[est]

freaking knew it!  I should ask my girl if she's down for 3 somes!

No, fry them in garlic butter and serve them separately.

[McTaggart]

Anyway I guess what I'm getting at is should I serve the spinach and mushrooms together or fry the mushrooms in some garlic butter and serve them separately?

Fry them in garlic butter and serve them separately.

I disagree. You could fry the mushrooms in the garlic butter and then put them aside, wilt the spinach in the frying pan and then serve the mushies on top of that.

[Barmymoo]

I'm a girl and I hate garlic.

[Jimmy the Squid]

I disagree. You could fry the mushrooms in the garlic butter and then put them aside, wilt the spinach in the frying pan and then serve the mushies on top of that.

I turns out that I did exactly this. Good show McTaggart.

I'm a vampire and I hate garlic.

Fixed your post.

[pen]

I disagree. You could fry the mushrooms in the garlic butter and then put them aside, wilt the spinach in the frying pan and then serve the mushies on top of that.

I like that you call them mushies.  It's cuter than shrooms.

[David_Dovey]

'round here "shrooms" refers exclusively to psychotropic mushrooms.

[allison]

Hey thread, haven't you ever just asked yourself Oh god what have I done

[evilbobthebob]

Yes, yes, and thrice yes. It happened at the worst possible time as well. I was failing to ask a girl out, said some incredibly stupid things, then didn't realise until about three hours later.