Topic: WCT: September 14-18, 2009 (Read 74930 times)

Is it cold in here? · « **Reply #150 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 21:00 »

Quote from: Gespenst on 16 Sep 2009, 11:19

...Marigold isn't really the poster child for personal hygiene and Hanners got first hand experience of that. She doesn't seem like the sort of person Hannelore would pick to hang around with. ...

It's another example of how being around the other QC characters has broadened Hannelore's horizons. She used to only listen to Bach, now she sings Battles to herself. Now she's trying out a different kind of friend. And she may have intuited that she and Marigold are at analogous stages of emotional development.

Carl-E · « **Reply #151 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 21:05 »

Quote from: Random832 on 16 Sep 2009, 08:54

What happened was this, which prompted not-100%-baseless (sure, it didn't go anywhere, but it's also how it could have started if he had meant for such a thing to happen) Hanners/Tai speculation, which was transferred to this.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that this guest comic is when the shipping started in earnest! Or maybe earlier, this was probably the true origin, where they started watching Yaoi together. With Momo acting like a matchmaker, it really did seem like someone was asking for a first date! Then comes the assumption that watching a love story would inspire one.

I wish...

ysth · « **Reply #152 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 21:36 »

Quote from: IanClark on 16 Sep 2009, 10:28

A recent anonymous survey returned that 12.9% of women were bisexual (although strangely enough the question: "Are you bisexual?" returned far less), on top of the somewhat standard number of 10% homosexual. So there's a 22.9% chance of any woman with no established information about her sexuality liking girls (Marigold), and for one who has been established to like guys but not to not like girls, it's 12.9%. So, in either case, to assume they were probably straight isn't homophobia, it's statistics. The exact opposite of bias.

Math error. The second percentage would be 14.3% (12.9% of 90%).

And defending your heterosexist assumptions with statistics does not make them any less heterosexist.

Take the riddle:

Quote

A man and his son were in a car accident and the man was killed. When the son was wheeled into the operating room, the doctor said "I can't operate on this patient; he's my son." Who was the doctor? (Hint: that doctor had no cojones.)

The very existence of this riddle is evidence that sexism is alive and well. It's all but impossible to grow up (at least in the U.S.) and not have some level of sexism; all the more so for heterosexism. But you can try to fight against it; to do so, you must first recognize that assumptions are the enemy, then systematically notice whenever you make one.

(Grr. Tried to use spoilers in the above, but it says I don't have proper permissions to use them. What's that about?)

akronnick · « **Reply #153 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 21:39 »

Is there anyone in the cast that Hanners hasn't been shipped with?

ysth · « **Reply #154 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 21:43 »

Quote from: Kakareen on 16 Sep 2009, 10:10

I guess if I'm completely honest, I'm grasping at straws because representations of gay persons, and gay relationships even more so, are rare. You wouldn't believe how overjoyed I was when Tai showed up. I was like, yay! We openly exist in this universe!

And have since comic 87 (Marten's previous boss.)

IanClark · « **Reply #155 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 21:55 »

Quote from: Random832 on 16 Sep 2009, 11:39

And acknowledging a 23%/13% chance as a possibility rather than automatically converting that number to 0% (which I am saying originates in homophobia) is "excessive"?

No what's excessive is the number of people who treated it more like 50% or 75% (at least for Marigold). And they were out there. As I stated before, it's not everyone, or even most people, but it did happen.

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I wasn't the one who said it "should've settled it", now, am i?

Evidence and proof aren't the same thing. Evidence indicates something, proof confirms something. Also we made two totally separate arguments so it's basically a non-sequitur to even say that.

Quote

Well, maybe there are genre aspects (art style, story tropes, etc) apart from the whole "this contains sex" part. Just like how, you know, there can be fans of manga in particular, despite the fact that manga supposedly just means "a comic book / graphic novel that comes from Japan."

I've seen/read yaoi. Unless I somehow got a really awkward cross-section, it's just romance except exclusively with dudes. Although from what I've heard a lot of people say, there's substantial evidence that the awkward cross-section theory might be true, so I'll partially recant my point about her liking yaoi.

IanClark · « **Reply #156 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 22:05 »

Quote from: ysth on 16 Sep 2009, 21:36

Math error. The second percentage would be 14.3% (12.9% of 90%).

And defending your heterosexist assumptions with statistics does not make them any less heterosexist.

10% lesbian, 12.9% bisexual means 22.9% who like girls in some context. And actually it does. If an assumption is made on percentages, it is not made on qualia.

Kugai · « **Reply #157 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 22:31 »

Welcome to the Questionable Content Debating Society.

I love how Hanners can be so clueless sometimes.

The fact that Marigold is even somewhat questioning her sexuality is going to start a new round.

raoullefere · « **Reply #158 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 22:54 »

Quote from: scarred on 16 Sep 2009, 02:56

Quote from: Zombiedude on 16 Sep 2009, 00:25
I am gonna ship the hell out of Dora and Marten...wait

Man I hope one day they hit it off, they're a match made in heaven

You losers. The only shipping with a future is Wil and Penelope. If only they would finally get together!

Quote from: akronnick on 16 Sep 2009, 21:39

Is there anyone in the cast that Hanners hasn't been shipped with?

The Roomba?

ysth · « **Reply #159 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 22:54 »

Quote from: IanClark on 16 Sep 2009, 22:05

Quote from: ysth on 16 Sep 2009, 21:36
Math error. The second percentage would be 14.3% (12.9% of 90%).

And defending your heterosexist assumptions with statistics does not make them any less heterosexist.

10% lesbian, 12.9% bisexual means 22.9% who like girls in some context. And actually it does. If an assumption is made on percentages, it is not made on qualia.

You completely missed both my points.

IanClark · « **Reply #160 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 22:56 »

Which two points then?

ndperfesser · « **Reply #161 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 22:58 »

As a male who is in pretty much the same situation as Marigold I can tell you these conversations are generally awkward at best and tend to degenerate pretty quickly. Wife? No. Girlfriend? No. Friend with benefits? No. Gay? No. My god man, what's wrong with you? The only upside since hitting my late forties is that now I apparently qualify as "eccentric."

JD · « **Reply #162 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 23:12 »

Quote from: IanClark on 16 Sep 2009, 22:56

Which two points then?

That you're being sexist and numbers don't stop that. I assume.

Quote from: ysth on 16 Sep 2009, 21:36

(Grr. Tried to use spoilers in the above, but it says I don't have proper permissions to use them. What's that about?)

Spoilers are are a bit iffy on this forum. Thats why we do stuff small

maddness · « **Reply #163 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 23:42 »

Quote from: raoullefere on 16 Sep 2009, 22:54

Quote from: akronnick on 16 Sep 2009, 21:39
Is there anyone in the cast that Hanners hasn't been shipped with?
The Roomba?

We all know she's hot for the roomba, but it's playing hard to get. The carpet tease.

snubnose · « **Reply #164 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 23:47 »

Aaaaah !

The end is nigh !

No new comic !

*furiously presses F5 over and over again*

maddness · « **Reply #165 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 23:58 »

She's threatening to punch him in a friendly way! Improvement! I know I always prefer threats of physical violence to be accompanied by a friendly smile.

akronnick · « **Reply #166 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 00:00 »

Faye threatening to punch a boy? sheesh, it's practically part of her mating ritual!

Faye, Angus, Astrophysics...I aprove of this message!

snubnose · « **Reply #167 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 00:03 »

Faye FLIRTS !

Damn.

pwhodges · « **Reply #168 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 00:15 »

Quote from: ysth on 16 Sep 2009, 21:36

It's all but impossible to grow up (at least in the U.S.) and not have some level of sexism; all the more so for heterosexism. But you can try to fight against it; to do so, you must first recognize that assumptions are the enemy, then systematically notice whenever you make one.

Stereotypes are fundamental to making it practical for us to interact with an insanely complex world. What needs to be considered is the inappropriate use of them, and this can be misjudged either way, depending on current views, and whether you are a boor or obsessively PC.

ysth · « **Reply #169 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 00:27 »

Quote from: IanClark on 16 Sep 2009, 22:56

Which two points then?

I'll try again, once.

Quote from: IanClark on 16 Sep 2009, 10:28

A recent anonymous survey returned that 12.9% of women were bisexual (although strangely enough the question: "Are you bisexual?" returned far less), on top of the somewhat standard number of 10% homosexual. So there's a 22.9% chance of any woman with no established information about her sexuality liking girls (Marigold), and for one who has been established to like guys but not to not like girls, it's 12.9%. So, in either case, to assume they were probably straight isn't homophobia, it's statistics. The exact opposite of bias.

From your base numbers, it should be "for one who has been established to like guys but not to not like girls, it's 14.3%". Of 1000 typical women, you would expect 100 homosexual and 900 hetero- or bisexual, 129 of the latter being bisexual. Your "like guys" limits it to the 900, and 129/900 is 14.3%.

The other point was that unnecessary assumption is the basis of discrimination; if you can't avoid making assumptions, you aren't going to avoid discriminating. The statistics are not a justification; if they were, it would mean it is somehow more right to discriminate against a smaller minority than a larger one.

Delirium · « **Reply #170 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 00:59 »

If Fayngus happens, I will throw up EVERYWHERE. Including on you.

Kugai · « **Reply #171 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 01:11 »

Quote from: Delirium on 17 Sep 2009, 00:59

If Fayngus happens, I will throw up EVERYWHERE. Including on you.

Shields . . . . SHIELDS!!!!

Faye flirting, things are looking up!

Maybe Angus should watch a few episodes of Carl Sagan's Cosmos

westrim · « **Reply #172 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 01:36 »

Quote from: Delirium on 17 Sep 2009, 00:59

If Fayngus happens, I will throw up EVERYWHERE. Including on you.

That would be threatening if you weren't in all likelihood hundreds of miles away from me. Plus, sorry, but it's pretty much going to happen- it's pretty clear that that is exactly what Jeph is angling towards. Now, whether they segue somewhere down the road into Marten and Dora splitting up over her control freakiness so that Faye and Marten can hook up as has been expected to happen eventually since the comic began is beyond my powers to speculate, nor do I want to as I don't care what Jeph does with his characters so long as it's in character and is funny.

TL,DR: Fayngus; it's whats for dinner.

evilbobthebob · « **Reply #173 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 01:44 »

Woo astrophysics comic

I'm happy.

akronnick · « **Reply #174 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 02:08 »

Quote from: Delirium on 17 Sep 2009, 00:59

If Fayngus happens, I will throw up EVERYWHERE. Including on you.

You might want to invest in Pepto-Bismol, I understand it works wonders in that regard.

Also, considering that my PC is not equipped with smell-o-vision, this is a particulary empty threat.

jeph · « **Reply #175 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 02:15 »

Quote from: Zombiedude on 16 Sep 2009, 00:25

I am gonna ship the hell out of Dora and Marten...wait

***spoiler alert***

they fuck

***end spoiler***

Darke · « **Reply #176 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 02:24 »

man that is such bs qc has jumped the shark i am so out of here

Delirium · « **Reply #177 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 02:26 »

Quote from: Darke on 17 Sep 2009, 02:24

man that is such bs qc has jumped the shark i am so out of here

And nothing of value was lost.

Akima · « **Reply #178 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 02:44 »

Quote from: raoullefere on 16 Sep 2009, 22:54

Quote from: akronnick on 16 Sep 2009, 21:39
Is there anyone in the cast that Hanners hasn't been shipped with?
The Roomba?

I suddenly immagined Beavis & Butthead giggling: "The roomba so eats carpet..."

akronnick · « **Reply #179 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 02:57 »

...and the maturity pendulum swings the other way!

Llewellian · « **Reply #180 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 03:45 »

Quote from: jeph on 17 Sep 2009, 02:15

***spoiler alert***

they fuck

***end spoiler***

Ah.... means:

F(_fuck)=G_ravy-Const*[(M^Faye*M^Angus)/R²_{Distance between F&As Bodies}]

As we can see, the Force of Fuck gets greater the smaller the distance between the centers of Faye and Angus get. In case it gets 0, Angus finds himself diving into an infinitive attraction well.

The last moments on her Schwarzschild Radius should be fun. Seeing the universe collapse and die around him before the tidal forces of her hole rip him to pieces...

akronnick · « **Reply #181 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 04:00 »

I think he was talking about Marten and Dora.

snubnose · « **Reply #182 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 04:10 »

Yep he was.

The posting was fun anyway.

LTK · « **Reply #183 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 04:47 »

Woo, QC goes xkcd.

akronnick · « **Reply #184 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 04:54 »

I just Re-read today's comic and realized something: while Faye objected to Angus passing by on a hyperbolic trajectory she left open the possibility of a stable elliptical orbit. Maybe she's starting to like Angus being around?

jonarus_drakus · « **Reply #185 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 05:02 »

She is getting more comfortable around him, how else could he have lasted till closing time without getting "SCORNed" Through the front window...

For the record, while I'm not really a fan of Angus (not that i think any better of Sven tho), i do, at least in theory, aprove of the way this 'story arc' seems to be, err... arcing...

workingrobbie · « **Reply #186 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 05:41 »

I will never be as smart as Faye

I couldn't quip even 1 astrophysics pun if my life depended on it. Unless it's something about Uranus

Border Reiver · « **Reply #187 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 06:10 »

Quote from: ndperfesser on 16 Sep 2009, 22:58

The only upside since hitting my late forties is that now I apparently qualify as "eccentric."

You only qualify as "eccentric" if you are rich. All others are "crazy".

Fun comic today, even if the jokes were way over my head.

IanClark · « **Reply #188 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 06:20 »

Quote from: ysth on 17 Sep 2009, 00:27

From your base numbers, it should be "for one who has been established to like guys but not to not like girls, it's 14.3%". Of 1000 typical women, you would expect 100 homosexual and 900 hetero- or bisexual, 129 of the latter being bisexual. Your "like guys" limits it to the 900, and 129/900 is 14.3%.

That's true. I got confused because I was thinking the order in which statistics were given on the survey itself.

Quote

The other point was that unnecessary assumption is the basis of discrimination; if you can't avoid making assumptions, you aren't going to avoid discriminating. The statistics are not a justification; if they were, it would mean it is somehow more right to discriminate against a smaller minority than a larger one.

I see the point partially, but it's irrelevant because what I'm saying is that Marigold should've been assumed more likely straight than gay. Which is backed up by the statistics. And which most people did, but this isn't about most people.

Shok Xone Studios · « **Reply #189 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 08:52 »

Yeesh, with all the science talk I thought I was reading Dresden Codak for a second.

LTK · « **Reply #190 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 08:54 »

Quote from: Shok Xone Studios on 17 Sep 2009, 08:52

Yeesh, with all the science talk I thought I was reading Dresden Codak for a second.

Nah, Dresden Codak is overkill. It's edging more on xkcd.

Alternative last line from Angus: "Sorry, I'm out of astrophysics quips. Gimme five minutes on xkcd and I'll be good to go."

Hey, you people arguing over the statistics of homosexuality: I'm sure jeph took the ratio of gay, straight and bi in the average population into careful consideration before determining his webcomic characters' sexual orientation.

Random832 · « **Reply #191 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 08:57 »

Quote from: IanClark on 17 Sep 2009, 06:20

I see the point partially, but it's irrelevant because what I'm saying is that Marigold should've been assumed more likely straight than gay.

this assumption, while by itself correct is not a sufficient reason to say that it is "creepy" or "inappropriate" to speculate on whether something 14.3/12.9/22.9/BLARGHWHATEVER percent possibility might end up being true.

Lots of things happen in the comic for which you can say it's "more likely" not to have happened. How likely was it that Faye and Angus would have a friendly discussion about astrophysics of all things? I'll bet it was less than a 14.3% chance.

IanClark · « **Reply #192 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 09:27 »

I never said it was creepy, in fact I very explicitly said I didn't think it was creepy. I have no problem with speculation. Speculation is fine, hell, I dare say speculation is good. That is not now, nor has it ever been my issue. And if you don't understand that by now, go back and re-read everything I've written until you do. My problem is not some wide-spread epidemic, my problem is only a select few group of people of which you and the majority of (if not all) the people in this discussion can safely call themselves not a part. My problem is the people who assumed Marigold was a lesbian, and they were out there. That is not synonymous with anything but itself.

kraemandrummer · « **Reply #193 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 09:39 »

I really wonder what the Blood + Thunder special tastes like.

I cannot help but feel it has something to do with Faye, her period, and attacking anyone who orders it

raoullefere · « **Reply #194 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 10:02 »

Well, it could be coffee that has menstrual flow added and a flatus bubbled through it. And doesn't Faye at least verbally attack every customer anyway?

Is it cold in here? · « **Reply #195 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 11:53 »

Quote from: raoullefere on 16 Sep 2009, 22:54

Quote from: akronnick on 16 Sep 2009, 21:39
Is there anyone in the cast that Hanners hasn't been shipped with?
The Roomba?

Lest we forget, the Roomba thought it was in a relationship with Hannelore, in #704. Does it count as shipping if one of the characters does it?

danman · « **Reply #196 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 12:28 »

Quote from: Gespenst on 16 Sep 2009, 16:04

I'd be quite interested in seeing your statistics. As far as I know the only real statistics available are from the Kinsey reports. Which gave the number at around 10%. Now admittedly the reports are nearly 60 years out of date (although honestly I'd expect that to increase the numbers not decrease them), Dr. Kinsey's methodology was at times... questionable (to say the least) and we must always remember the three kinds of lies (lies, damn lies and statistics) but since they're all we've got to work with...

Look at reports eg links on wikipedia - the largest study, done in Australia has shown about 3% incidence. The number of 10% is grossly overestimated - also the official figures are about 4%.
The kinsey report is questionable. And why should there be more of them, assuming the respondents answered truely to the study?

Quote

Because there are no bisexuals?

By the way: every single lesbian that I know likes to read yaoi. It's no indicator at all.

I was talking homosexuals - bisexuals are other small minority but the essence of the argument holds.
Besides if you know less than about 100 lesbians i am calling your evidence highly questionable.

Quote

It... what?

...Anomalous?

Just looking at the numbers might give you the impression that only x% of a group is y, but a random selection might chose every member of the group that is y. And there isn't going to be an even distribution in real life. What are the chances that a gay man would chose to live in ...say...Louisiana versus San Francisco? Not only that but ...well... "birds of a feather flock together" it makes sense for a number of reasons that gay people will have a higher number of gay friends (they aren't going to be homophonic at the very least). Almost all of my close friends are either gay or bisexual.

But no matter what you do and where you go some bugger is going to screw up your curve.

Firstly i am

boggled with shame at mistaking words, i call to my defense english is not my mothertongue, although the defense is vague, and that i was thinking rapidly while typing.

Secondly, we have no reason to assume this is a place with an anomalous incidence of homo/bi sexuals, so still assuming they are is statistically unsound if unsupported by evidence.

Quote

It means that it has it's roots in homophobia?

But what I think that poster meant to refer to was the idea that heterosexuality is 'the norm'. Therefore everyone is straight until proven otherwise. (And the threshold is usually staggeringly high, often just saying that you are isn’t enough).

I think that's called heteronormativity or something.

But whether that is a homophobic stance I couldn't say.

...of course none of the things I've said mean that I think that either Hannelore and Marigold are gay or bisexual. They say they aren't so that's good enough for me.

Well, yes to both (Heterosexuality is the norm, and everyone should be considered as such unless there is ample evidence to the contrary) Would you like that i made other reasonless assumptions ? (I bet Marten is a fetishist since he keeps all the old clothes, and Steve has a thing for bear cubs. )

guyy · « **Reply #197 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 12:58 »

Dang, how did I'm miss this comic last night? I'm a friggin' astrophysics major.

Speaking of which, Angus should have told Faye not to let high-mass (or high-ass) white dwarves like Sven pass through her accretion disc and collect enough extra matter to nudge themselves over the Chandrasekhar limit of 1.38 solar masses.

For the vast majority of you not in the know, when that happens, they explode.

Team Venture · « **Reply #198 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 15:28 »

Quote from: SleeperCylon on 15 Sep 2009, 08:42

It's hilarious how stupid and puerile men can be about sexuality though, especially anonymously on the internet.

I'm a woman, and I am still hoping for them to hook up. Because it would be hot. And nice in a non-sexy way, as well.
I guess I am stupid and puerile ...which I can accept. Just sayin', it's kinda sexist to limit it to men. Do you make jokes about women being idiots, too?

Quote from: Carl-E on 16 Sep 2009, 02:54

Yep, to have a chance at that type, she'd have to turn off the computer, take a shower, get her hair done, get a new wardrobe (including more stylish glasses or maybe dump the glasses entirely for contacts), and most importantly, go outside more often, to the bars and other places where these guys are likely to hang out.

Oh yeah and she'd probably need to hit the gym too.

That... that was sarcasm, right? Even if it wasn't, just lie to me because I don't want to have an aneurysm. <3

Quote from: workingrobbie on 17 Sep 2009, 05:41

I will never be as smart as Faye I couldn't quip even 1 astrophysics pun if my life depended on it. Unless it's something about Uranus

QC often makes me think that. I'm all "man, it would be great to hang out with peeps like these" and then comes the crushing, undeniable truth that if they existed they would not hang out with me since I am nowhere near as cool. /emo

Although, they did take Marigold in, and she is a LOT like me. Now, if you'll excuse me, my guild needs me in Ulduar.

kurzon · « **Reply #199 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 16:16 »

Quote from: Delirium on 17 Sep 2009, 00:59

If Fayngus happens, I will throw up EVERYWHERE. Including on you.

Putting aside the early masochistic portrayal and pretending he was introduced more recently, a Faye/Angus relationship is weirdly...blah. Just no excitement or romantic feel there (more an impression of a gradual erosion of Faye's dislike). Ah well - some relationships are like that, too, I guess.

THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)

Author Topic: WCT: September 14-18, 2009 (Read 74930 times)

westrim