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University/College
calenlass:
Social Bacon I think that perhaps all the people who are just there for their jobs are there because they have been told that, essentially, they have to be. I can honestly tell you that if I was not under the impression that I would be making enough money (thanks to that piece of paper) to make up for all the bullshit, I would skip out on all of it and go hang out somewhere I could learn cool stuff on my own time and of my own volition. I would make up my own majors and graduate in them all, AND I would take 20 years to do it if that's what I felt like doing. Most of it would be free, and all of it would be engaging and entertaining. I am passionate about learning, but the university system, at least in the States, is more of a suffocation of education than the promotion of it
Those of us that are in university programs "for our degrees" cannot afford to pay for university just for the hell of doing it. Some of us wouldn't want the chokehold that is more about essays and book reports and grammar exercises and busywork just for fun, even if we could afford it. But we are here because we must be, because our society has dictated that this sort of education makes for a well-rounded individual who is more interactive and financially successful. In industrialised nations, those are the keys to our survival. So, in this light, I ask you who is ultimately worse off: the one who struggles against The System but cannot change it, or the ones who fight to learn to survive in it?
MrDorman:
I go to community college and live with my parents.
eheu :cry:
Nodaisho:
Me too. It's a lot cheaper than a university, even an in-state one, and I don't have to pay for rent or food. The more money I don't spend on that stuff, the more I can save and invest. Especially nice when I can't find a job, because apparently nobody wants to hire a part-time student with no prior professional experience.
Alex C:
--- Quote from: Social Bacon on 21 Oct 2009, 20:53 ---Sorry, my post wasn't really meant to be a personal attack on Andy. I know it kind of came off that way, I just get a little frustrated when I start talking about uni and tend to rant. I really agree with you on all counts, but the point I'm trying to get at is that it's impossible to knock the leechers out of the system. It's their prerogative to leech if they so choose. As such, for those of us who are passionate about our studies, we have to work with what we have. I'm saying that we can cut ourselves apart from the losers with no real interest in learning and get the full value from our profs and the time we spend there. I don't think focusing on the problems and inept individuals is really useful when there's so much to be pleased with. (Again, this is not meant to be an attack on you, but this thread has spent forever talking about these issues.)
--- End quote ---
This troubles me somewhat. Not everyone with issues with the system are necessarily leeches. That the system is tailored in such a way that you do not chafe from its fit is a blessing for you, but for others some of the structure and general education requirements involved are an expensive and frustrating stepping stone on the way to pursuing their interests. As Jhocking said, universities generally dismiss this as a problem because they do not really consider job training as part of their mission statement; personally, I'd like to see that change a tiny bit, and I'm not really convinced that learning for learning's sake would necessarily just die out or something just because we finally got around to acknowledging a lot of the pragmatism involved.
Really, I find it funny that Calenlass and I seemed to be disagreeing earlier, since her last post makes me think that we have essentially the same attitude on this subject just with perhaps different points of emphasis when actually discussing it. I'm not really struggling against any system, I just have an opinion of it that isn't entirely complimentary. It'd be a real stretch to say that I have an ax to grind.
--- Quote from: calenlass on 20 Oct 2009, 16:09 ---The way universities and colleges are set up in the US, I would never want to be a career student, even if it were free. I do not want to go for a grade and a piece of paper, either, but that is what they want. Those grades and pieces of paper are apparently necessary to get a job (even unrelated to my degree, but that is a different can of worms), so I am doing that to get a job so I can pursue studies in my own fields of interest without all the administrative and bureaucratic bullshit getting in the way.
--- End quote ---
Also, this gem. That's basically me. I got enough formal education to get my paramedic cert and then I got the fuck out (too bad the money sucks though). This does not mean I am uninterested in learning or would even being opposed to taking classes on a more ala carte basis. I actually enjoyed some of the classes I took on other subjects while I was in there. But it was also a more costly and at times frustrating experience than I would like to go through again.
jhocking:
--- Quote from: calenlass on 21 Oct 2009, 23:05 ---the ones who fight to learn to survive in it
--- End quote ---
lol what
the ones who fight to learn to consider to believe to suggest to interpret to imply to mutter to agree to disagree to sermonize to settle to blather to prioritize to categorize to filibuster to debate to desire to clarify to exclaim to decide to survive in it
hee hee that amused me
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