Topic: Faye and Angus: LTR? (Read 35774 times)

Is it cold in here? · « **on:** 20 Aug 2010, 18:22 »

Can Faye get better fast enough to sustain a relationship?

Will Angus lose interest after she gets better because he's stuck on Dysfunctional Faye?

Surgoshan · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Aug 2010, 01:49 »

Border Reiver · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Aug 2010, 03:55 »

Of course.

Maybe

jwhouk · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Aug 2010, 05:27 »

The Magic 8 Ball says, "Answer Hazy Try Again".

Carl-E · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Aug 2010, 07:45 »

I almost went for the "Faye Sabotages It" choice, but I think that Faye is going to try to sabotage it.

Angus is persistent and stubborn enough to sap the saboteur!

I think this could potentially work. He could be very good for her by providing relentless stability.

Something she lost with her father.

bunnyThor · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Aug 2010, 12:31 »

I have no problem seeing anyone attracted to Faye. She's spunky and sassy and witty and curvy.

I had no problem seeing what Faye liked in Marten. He's loyal and patient and bright and treated her like a goddamned queen. And I had no problem seeing what Faye found attractive in Sven. There was spirited give-and-take from someone who could call her on her bullshit and vice versa. (Plus the sex appeal that apparently emanates from him, even when he doesn't want it to.)

But Angus? As far as I can tell, he's just a pre-existing male character who was available and unentangled. So far as I can tell, his chief selling points are that he's an okay guy who is attracted to her and is unthreatening. He's Marten II: The Rushed-To-Theaters Sequel. He's been in, or been referred to in, 120-130 strips now and yet we know little about him, and what little we do know has been thoroughly boring. (Compare this to his recently introduced roommate, Marigold, who is one of the breakout stars of the strip.)

To sum up, Angus brings nothing to the table. But if you don't believe me, I have a reading list for you.

(Page numbers in parentheses are when Angus is off-screen, but being mentioned.)

Maybe-Angus?:
375, 710

Early Angus:
767, (769), 779-780, 783-784, (785), (790), 853, (854), 898-900, 1121-1124, (1144)

Current Angus:
1363, 1368-1369, 1371, 1373, 1384-1391 (1390), 1393, (1394), 1410, 1419, 1422-1423, 1425-1429, (1431), 1441, (1444), 1445, 1448, 1471, 1475-1476, 1487, 1491, 1494-1495, 1501-1502, 1504-1505, 1531, 1533-1536, 1558-1560, (1561), (1563-1564), (1571), 1573, 1583, 1590, 1597-1601, 1613, 1615, 1617, 1621, 1623-1637 (1627) (1629), (1639), 1642, 1663-1665, (1667), (1669), 1673, 1675-1687, 1689-1693, 1702, (1703-1704), 1723-1725, 1731-1735.

If anyone is enterprising enough to use this data to make a link list, more power to you.

P.S., considering what we now know about Angus's "housemates", 1363 seems to be some sort of continuity error.

tomart · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Aug 2010, 13:48 »

Quote from: bunnyThor on 21 Aug 2010, 12:31

1363 seems to be some sort of continuity error.

"Continuity error" ... I love that phrase; it suggests flagrant cause/effect disparities, unacceptable distortions in the space-time continuum; the breakdown of reality as we've known and loved it.*

In support of your theory, Jeph's note below 1363 includes:
"I am completely exhausted and this has been an awful week so apologies if the comic is not up to usual standards. I am too tired to be certain."

* such as: the Republican propaganda machine's SUCCESS in blaming Obama for our poverty, after Bush's 8 years of robbing us blind.

raoullefere · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 Aug 2010, 13:51 »

I disagree, bunnyThor.

We know about as much about Angus as we know about Wil, Penny, or, honestly, about Marigold.
Things we know:
His occupation
His ability to think fast, even in distress (the Poe-bathroom ref)
He's persistent, and backs it up by…
Taking risks
He's pretty even-tempered (good quality for a straw-man) but…
He's very hard on himself, and tends to lash out at such times.
He's good at catching onto verbal nuance, but tends to focus on the words themselves and not the person.
Non-verbal cues often fly right over his head.
He cares about other people and is willing to stand up for them, even at personal cost

I'm not going to make an exhaustive list, but I can come up with a couple of differences between Martin and Angus without really trying
Marten sucks at risk-taking.
He seems much more passive.
Marten is rarely all that hard on himself (to be fair, he's the same as for others)
I'm willing to bet Marten is much less 'shockable' than Angus, due to his upbringing.

Edit: Was in a nasty mood this morning. No need to carry it here, though.

HiFranc · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Aug 2010, 02:38 »

I see them staying together for the long term. They have the same sense of humour so that's going to help bind them.

bunnyThor · « **Reply #9 on:** 31 Jan 2011, 18:57 »

Quote from: HiFranc on 22 Aug 2010, 02:38

I see them staying together for the long term. They have the same sense of humour so that's going to help bind them.

They better have a great sense of humor, because when Faye discovers that Angus doesn't have the supernatural ladypart pleasing powers as Sven did, they'll have to either laugh or cry.

Nick and Marla · « **Reply #10 on:** 31 Jan 2011, 19:07 »

Threesome with Marten to help him get over stuff.

Is it cold in here? · « **Reply #11 on:** 31 Jan 2011, 21:22 »

(moderator)Stop.(/moderator)

Skelepunk · « **Reply #12 on:** 31 Jan 2011, 23:01 »

while I personally feel that it is impossible to tell, the idea of Angus leaving her once she's better intrigues me. He very well could be attracted to messed up women, like those women who intentionally try to "cure" alcoholics because it makes them feel needed, but leave once the alcoholic is "better". However, he doesn't truly seem like the type. But then again, I never would have predicted the breakup either.

Is it cold in here? · « **Reply #13 on:** 31 Jan 2011, 23:10 »

There's a pretty good case to be made that he's attracted to messed-up women, if we can extrapolate from two data points (Faye and his ex).

It's remarkable how little we know about him, though.

Tetrinity · « **Reply #14 on:** 31 Jan 2011, 23:59 »

Well, this relationship is certainly a good way to find out more about the guy, don't you think? I wouldn't say he's attracted to "messed-up women" per se; Faye is much healthier than when Angus was first introduced as Argument Guy, yet he's held the attraction the entire time. I don't think her mental health is what attracted him to Faye in the first place, but I'm ready to be proven wrong.

I kinda see what Faye sees in Angus; he's a nice guy without being too overbearing about it like Marten was and he isn't completely obnoxious like Sven often was. I say "completely" like that because Angus does have a slight tendency to run his mouth a bit, but he's good at smoothing over mistakes in conversation and steering it in the right direction. Say what you like about the guy, but the confidence he displays attracts a lot of women. He's the sort of guy I would've dated back before I started batting for the other side.

Sharp · « **Reply #15 on:** 01 Feb 2011, 01:28 »

I think that the relationship can work, and I really hope that it helps expand Angus as a full character. We need to know more about what he does outside of work and his moments with Faye and Marigold. (i.e. interacting with more characters) I definately want him to run into Sven one day, curious as to how he'd handle that.

IF the relationship were to end, I could see it being something like Angus moving for a new job or something, but I don't want to start writing fanfiction here so I'll leave it at that.

TheBiscuit · « **Reply #16 on:** 01 Feb 2011, 02:50 »

I agree with BunnyThor. Angus as a character is completely uninteresting and underdeveloped. It doesn't really make any sense for Faye to be interested in him, and if the comic were proceeding logically I'd expect her to see that. As it is, I expect them to stay together for a very long time. There isn't a reason; there doesn't need to be. It's just been thrust upon them. They will enjoy a kind of artificial happiness for some considerable time. Monday's comic shows that they are getting along nicely.

The Seldom Killer · « **Reply #17 on:** 01 Feb 2011, 03:18 »

I do wonder whether Faye is likely to make a lot more progress with her issues which will lead her to want to make up for some lost time in dating.

That isn't to suggest that she is "settling" for Angus or there is anyone better for her, but human curiosity might kick in and Faye hasn't always been the most pragmatic of characters.

Skewbrow · « **Reply #18 on:** 01 Feb 2011, 03:42 »

Well. I'm not gonna give my avatar a goofy wide grin, 'cause I can't draw worth shit.

I think that at this point we have seen about as much of Angus (if not more?) as we had of Sven by the time he hooked up with Faye. So I disagree with bunnyThor. If I had to nominate the least developed male character I would point at Steve. His air time has mostly consisted of making the contrast between his mildly stereotypical machismo and Marten's ~~nice guy~~ ~~door mat~~ easygoing dude act clearer. A good friend to Marten, an ok guy, but somewhat one-dimensional. Hmm? May be Wil is even closer to being a caricature as opposed to a character? May be I am unduly harsh on Steve?

It is true that we haven't seen Angus interact much with the rest of the gang. I hope that will change. Angus isn't Sven, he isn't Marten, and it is up to Goldilock to select a bowl of porridge (or go back to having toast for breakfast).

I don't know, if Faye & Angus' relationship will be "for keeps", "another step in Faye's healing process" or something in between. I'm just sooooo relieved to see Faye happy for a change. Hopefully it lasts, but if the paddle steamer goes down the Niagara Falls, they will survive. I wish them the best of luck, and I'm gonna watch the story unfold as Jeph sees fit.

TheBiscuit · « **Reply #19 on:** 01 Feb 2011, 04:22 »

Quote from: Skewbrow on 01 Feb 2011, 03:42

May be I am unduly harsh on Steve?

I certainly don't think so. Steve is far less of a developed character than Angus. We know a little about Angus, though not nearly enough. Just because Steve and Will are both under-developed doesn't mean Angus is well developed enough to make sense as a pairing for Faye though. I still agree with BunnyThor's main point which is that Angus was paired with Faye because Angus was available and Jeph wanted to pair off Faye.

After all, he's been pretty direct about his Ship Sinking agenda lately.

jwhouk · « **Reply #20 on:** 01 Feb 2011, 06:13 »

Angus has "met" Sven (at the Speed Beer party a few years ago). He offered to peg him in the head with a snowball.

And as for "long term" - considering that Jeph didn't keep Marty and Dora together long term, I don't think he's going to do it with Faye and Angus.

Nick and Marla · « **Reply #21 on:** 01 Feb 2011, 06:33 »

Quote from: Is it cold in here? on 31 Jan 2011, 21:22

(moderator)Stop.(/moderator)

I'm not sure if you actually took that seriously or if you're saying that's not something you even joke about, because other people on the internet are weird as fuck and would take it seriously.

pwhodges · « **Reply #22 on:** 01 Feb 2011, 07:10 »

Have you read the sticky thread "Conduct in this forum"? The reason we are sensitive about this sort of thing is spelt out in there. There is also useful stuff in the "Welcome" thread of this forum, and the main forum rules in the "Hi I'm New" forum.

Nick and Marla · « **Reply #23 on:** 01 Feb 2011, 07:16 »

Quote from: pwhodges on 01 Feb 2011, 07:10

we are sensitive

Ok.

TheEvilDog · « **Reply #24 on:** 01 Feb 2011, 07:59 »

Quote from: Nick and Marla on 01 Feb 2011, 07:16

Quote from: pwhodges on 01 Feb 2011, 07:10
we are sensitive
Ok.

Or rather, we are sensitive to the fact that this forum can devolve into a seething mass of anger, hatred and insults very quickly, point in fact, the WCDT thread during the break up back in November, which was shutdown, due to it breaking down into a trolling session. Even Jeph commented on us getting a WCDT closed, thats how bad it was, and rightly so. No one wants to see their work being picked apart in minutiae, with an unhealthy dose of shipping.

Back to the topic on hand, specifically about Angus being an underdeveloped character, the same could be said of almost everyone in the cast, bar two or three of the main cast. How much do we really know about any given character? Take Marten before the comic started for example, we know he had at least 5 girlfriends before Dora, studied music in college, his parents divorced before he was 10, his mother is a world famous fetish model, his father is gay, and a night club owner. But besides those facts, and the characterisation we've seen in the comic, what else do we know about Marten? Whether or not someone is developed is a matter of perspective, we know only marginally more about Marten than we do about Angus, but it only seems as though we know more because Marten has been around since the beginning. I mean, we know more about Angus' education, his ambitions and his drive than we know about Marten's. As it is, Angus is fast becoming one of the most developed characters in the comic.

That or the future is a blank page, and we're all waiting for Jeph to draw it.

Is it cold in here? · « **Reply #25 on:** 01 Feb 2011, 11:34 »

Developing characters in a few panels a day is a hard problem. Agreed that we don't have detailed pictures of any of them, but Jeph does do better than most other web comics I've seen.

horsefish · « **Reply #26 on:** 01 Feb 2011, 16:25 »

Quote from: TheBiscuit on 01 Feb 2011, 04:22

...doesn't mean Angus is well developed enough to make sense as a pairing for Faye though.

I don't see how the level to which a character is developed has anything to do with whether he/she is a good match for another character. Presumably, (in universe) all characters are equally well developed, just we know less about some of them. By that I mean, if we suspend disbelief and pretend the characters are "real people", our knowledge of their qualities has little or no bearing on the potential existence of those qualities. Like in Real Life, people you know aren't any more or less "real" than people you don't. And even if Faye and Angus don't know each other that well, that reflects real life too. In my experience, people are equally or more likely to start dating people they have recently met than people they have known for a long time. I met my wife on a blind date. (not that that has any relevance.

I'm glad Faye found a nice guy who's still assertive enough to deal with her.

*EDIT* I think I may have gotten a bit off topic. I predicct Faye and Angus will stay together for at least three months of "real time" -- the difference betwee RT and QCT has bee discussed plenty elsewhere, but i'll say it does confuse the issue of LTR/not LTR. In QC time, the consensus seems to be that Marten/Dora was not a LTR, but in real time it seemed like forever. (Not so much to me, since I only discovered QC two months ago and did an archive binge...)

bunnyThor · « **Reply #27 on:** 01 Feb 2011, 21:06 »

Quote from: TheEvilDog on 01 Feb 2011, 07:59

No one wants to see their work being picked apart in minutiae, with an unhealthy dose of shipping.

Wat?

For an artist to have their work dissected, analyzed, critiqued, and used as a springboard to others' flights of fancy is one of the highest compliments possible. It means that the audience has noted the artist's work, and that they find it compelling and important.

If the artist doesn't want that, that means that they should avoid showing their work to an outside audience. Some would argue that if no one but the artist reacts to the work, then it isn't art in the first place.

Jeph may not relish every aspect of the audience's reaction to his offerings, but I imagine that is still preferable to complete indifference.

TheBiscuit · « **Reply #28 on:** 01 Feb 2011, 21:25 »

Yeah well Jeph has made it entirely clear that he finds speculation about improbable relationships distasteful. Which is interesting because that's sort of how I'd describe the comic.

Dr. ROFLPWN · « **Reply #29 on:** 01 Feb 2011, 21:57 »

I think that Angus and Faye have the potential to last as long as Marten and Dora, if not longer--especially because oh hey, do you know what they're doing? Being honest with each other. Amazing how much mileage that gets one in a relationship! And how little mileage not being honest gets one.

As to the people saying Angus is not developed and is like a Marten shadow-clone: oh, really? Try harder.

We don't know as much about Angus' life and family as we do Marten's, but we've had a very good glimpse into what I'd call his "soul"; he's not like Marten except on the superficial level of them both being gentlemen. As the good raoullefere pointed out, Marten is passive to a fault, and tends to go with the flow of things; Angus is much more assertive, sharper-tongued, and generally extroverted. Where Marten is a muisician, Angus is a politician and orator, thousands of times more effective in the use of words than Mr. Reed. I actually think Angus is a little smarter than Marty, from an intellectual standpoint, but that may just be me.

If he's anything, he's a hybrid of Marten and Sven's best qualities, and as such pretty ideal for Ms. Whitaker. He won me over when he was willing to accept everything about Faye, including that she might not be ready for a relationship, just because he found her so fascinating and such an awesome lady that he couldn't help but be in love with her.

I can understand why some people might not want to see him court and win, but those people need to deal with it, because he's not going away anytime soon, and thank goodness, because contrary to popular belief, shipping is really fuckin' annoying, and not just to the author. I can understand why people might not want to see Faye in a relationship, either, but you know what? These characters do change over time, and Faye's really been making strides. She's no longer defined simply by her father's death. This isn't to say it'll never be a problem again, but it's not such a problem that she can't share herself with someone else. And I would go so far as to say that Angus might well help her with her abandonment issues, to boot.

Angus isn't a placeholder, he's a major character, and huzzah for it, frankly. I like the boy.

akronnick · « **Reply #30 on:** 01 Feb 2011, 22:47 »

The real question isn't "Faye and Angus: LTR?" it's "Faye and Angus: OTP?"

Is it cold in here? · « **Reply #31 on:** 01 Feb 2011, 23:12 »

Quote from: Dr. ROFLPWN on 01 Feb 2011, 21:57

If he's anything, he's a hybrid of Marten and Sven's best qualities, and as such pretty ideal for Ms. Whitaker.

Insightful!

squishything · « **Reply #32 on:** 01 Feb 2011, 23:39 »

Heh, I smell a bunnythor retort a'brewin'. I would tend to agree that Angus represents that positive hybridity (though also an increased tendency for foot-in-mouthiness).

bunnyThor · « **Reply #33 on:** 02 Feb 2011, 00:05 »

Quote from: Dr. ROFLPWN on 01 Feb 2011, 21:57

I think that Angus and Faye have the potential to last as long as Marten and Dora, if not longer--especially because oh hey, do you know what they're doing? Being honest with each other.

Sven and Faye were honest with each other, and look how that ended up.

Quote from: TheBiscuit on 01 Feb 2011, 21:25

Yeah well Jeph has made it entirely clear that he finds speculation about improbable relationships distasteful. Which is interesting because that's sort of how I'd describe the comic.

Right. It's sort of 90% of the comic. If we are not supposed to talk about that, why even have a discussion forum? There's only so many things you can say about AnthroPCs.

Quote from: squishything on 01 Feb 2011, 23:39

Heh, I smell a bunnythor retort a'brewin'. I would tend to agree that Angus represents that positive hybridity (though also an increased tendency for foot-in-mouthiness).

I'll make a proper retort as soon as someone can tell me which of Sven's best qualities Angus supposedly has. The only one I can think of is "doesn't get hurt when thrown across room".

Shadic · « **Reply #34 on:** 02 Feb 2011, 00:24 »

Quote from: bunnyThor on 02 Feb 2011, 00:05

Quote from: Dr. ROFLPWN on 01 Feb 2011, 21:57
I think that Angus and Faye have the potential to last as long as Marten and Dora, if not longer--especially because oh hey, do you know what they're doing? Being honest with each other.
Sven and Faye were honest with each other, and look how that ended up.

Would have worked fine if he didn't put his penis in another woman. And that boundary was firmly set by her.

pwhodges · « **Reply #35 on:** 02 Feb 2011, 00:25 »

Quote from: bunnyThor on 02 Feb 2011, 00:05

why even have a discussion forum?

Jeph has made it clear how he views the forum. Read the thread leading up to that post for the fuller discussion (and there is no need to repeat that discussion here).

The moderators have no contact with Jeph, but are trying to keep this forum operating in a manner that will not cause him to close it. I can assure you that closure has been discussed more than once in the last couple of years; stage one was when he moved the link to the forum from the top menu of the QC site to the bottom of a sidebar on one page only.

The Seldom Killer · « **Reply #36 on:** 02 Feb 2011, 01:39 »

Quote from: bunnyThor on 01 Feb 2011, 21:06

For an artist to have their work dissected, analyzed, critiqued, and used as a springboard to others' flights of fancy is one of the highest compliments possible. It means that the audience has noted the artist's work, and that they find it compelling and important.

If the artist doesn't want that, that means that they should avoid showing their work to an outside audience. Some would argue that if no one but the artist reacts to the work, then it isn't art in the first place.

Jeph may not relish every aspect of the audience's reaction to his offerings, but I imagine that is still preferable to complete indifference.

History is rife with artists, authors, musicians and other creatives who have held a view on how their work should be viewed. No shortage of which consider appreciation in it's original form to be the highest compliment possible and have suggested that mimicry, adaptation, bastardisation and variation do not serve to complement but instead weakens and detracts from the original work.

Whether such a view detracts from their abilities may be subject to debate, but that really only serves to illustrate that there is no single definitive opinion.

bunnyThor · « **Reply #37 on:** 02 Feb 2011, 07:07 »

Quote from: pwhodges on 02 Feb 2011, 00:25

Quote from: bunnyThor on 02 Feb 2011, 00:05
why even have a discussion forum?

Jeph has made it clear how he views the forum. Read the thread leading up to that post for the fuller discussion (and there is no need to repeat that discussion here).

The moderators have no contact with Jeph, but are trying to keep this forum operating in a manner that will not cause him to close it. I can assure you that closure has been discussed more than once in the last couple of years; stage one was when he moved the link to the forum from the top menu of the QC site to the bottom of a sidebar on one page only.

Well then, guys, I'll just have to wish you mods luck in what has to be one of the most thankless jobs out there. Between the author who thinks that 99% of what goes on in forums is stupid and wrong, and the forum guests who expect to act like they act in any other forum, you guys have to do quite the dance to keep this place bearable by both parties, knowing that it takes only one egregious kerfuffle to shut down the whole enterprise. Honestly, I'm surprised it has lasted this long.

In cases like this (and there are a few) where the artist prefers to keep the fans at one more stage of remove, it would be nice if there were forums for webcomics that didn't have/want artist moderation or any official attachment. In the 80s and the 90s, this need would've been fulfilled with USENET and the creation of the alt.comics.questionable-content. Sadly, USENET is all but dead now, so the only real hope would be to have one of those legacy forums, like certain comics who still keep their old KeenSpot forums, in addition to their newer official forums. Maybe he could secure a forum space in the old Dumbrella boards for a forum that is about his work, yet not his responsibility to oversee. Someone's got to have spare server capacity for this sticky blob of shipping and spec.

pwhodges · « **Reply #38 on:** 02 Feb 2011, 08:00 »

Quote from: bunnyThor on 02 Feb 2011, 07:07

forum guests who expect to act like they act in any other forum

There seem to be plenty of people who don't want to treat forums the way that you suggest is usual, and I've had messages of support from some. We are happy to welcome anyone who is prepared to fit in; and my feeling is that the current traffic level is a fair bit higher than it was last summer (this is, of course, partly because forum registration was broken for quite a while).

Quote

you guys have to do quite the dance to keep this place bearable by both parties, knowing that it takes only one egregious kerfuffle to shut down the whole enterprise.

I think we're doing OK; I've no idea what Jeph thinks...

Quote

Maybe he could secure a forum space in the old Dumbrella boards for a forum that is about his work, yet not his responsibility to oversee. Someone's got to have spare server capacity for this sticky blob of shipping and spec.

I believe the old guard in the rest of the forum came from Dumbrella in the first place - but that was long before my time. Of course, anyone can set up a forum if they're prepared to pay for hosting and traffic - but I see no likelihood of Jeph paying for a forum he doesn't want.

Is it cold in here? · « **Reply #39 on:** 02 Feb 2011, 14:50 »

Speaking only for myself, and based only on osmosis from things that have been said, it seems like there are two important distinctions to draw.

One is between what people say about QC on the tvtropes forum and other wilder places, versus what they say and do in Jeph's guesthouse. If your host wants you to take off your shoes at the door or refrain from smoking, you would do so even if you wouldn't when out in public.

The other is between speculation and creativity. Extrapolating from themes Jeph set forth doesn't drive him crazy, according to his own statements. Fanfic, and groundless shipping, are creative. Creativity with your own characters is good, but creativity with someone else's characters risks being rudeness and plagiarism.

Nick and Maria, thank you for asking. I want the moderation to be transparent. In practice most of the shipping has been meant to be humorous, but nonetheless Jeph has called it out in a public post as being something he hates.

(/moderator)

Faye isn't doing anything to sabotage it! She is being sassy without being abusive and even took the initiative about moving to the next level. This relationship may actually work. It doesn't have the damaging problems underneath that she had with Marten and with Sven.

TRVA123 · « **Reply #40 on:** 02 Feb 2011, 18:46 »

Quote from: Shadic on 02 Feb 2011, 00:24

Quote from: bunnyThor on 02 Feb 2011, 00:05
]Sven and Faye were honest with each other, and look how that ended up.
Would have worked fine if he didn't put his penis in another woman. And that boundary was firmly set by her.

I think there's an important distinction between the type of relationship that Faye and Sven had vs. the type of relationship that Faye and Angus have/seem to be going for.

Faye and Sven were hmm, to put it in their own words "antagonists with benefits". If either of then wanted a long term relationship then they could have brought that possibility to light. They had a fling, and Faye stipulated that the fling would end if Sven didn't stay monogamous. Yes, both Sven and Faye had an emotional stake in the relationship, but I don't think either of them were ready to acknowledge that to each other.

*as a side note, I don't think that hiding the extent of their emotions for each other made Sven and Faye's relationship "dishonest". I think that they were open with each other about what they were ready for and what their terms/conditions for the fling were. Thus, an honest relationship. They were still entitled to their own emotional privacy.

Faye and Angus's relationship is one that has been presented, along with Angus, in a serious light. It's definitely not a case of "I'm bored, lets have sex", which is what Faye/Sven was at times. Angus has been honest about his emotional interest in Faye from the beginning, while not putting unfair pressure on Faye.

Honestly, I'm sick of Sven getting jumped on for "cheating on Faye". I'm not saying that he necessarily makes the best decisions, but he was honest with Faye and didn't string her along or press his advantage in any way. He'd also stated from the beginning of their fling that he wasn't promising monogamy. I think both Faye and Sven had unrealistic expectations of each other.

Is it cold in here? · « **Reply #41 on:** 02 Feb 2011, 19:05 »

The difference is that this time Faye is being honest with herself. Last time she was telling herself that she wasn't in a Relationship when emotionally speaking she was. This time she's going into it with her eyes open.

MamiyaOtaru · « **Reply #42 on:** 02 Feb 2011, 22:37 »

Quote from: bunnyThor on 21 Aug 2010, 12:31

Maybe-Angus?:
375, 710

Early Angus:
767,

considering 767 links to 710 saying "remember this guy?" I think you can safely say 710 is Angus.

maddness · « **Reply #43 on:** 02 Feb 2011, 23:27 »

Quote from: bunnyThor on 02 Feb 2011, 00:05

Quote from: Dr. ROFLPWN on 01 Feb 2011, 21:57
I think that Angus and Faye have the potential to last as long as Marten and Dora, if not longer--especially because oh hey, do you know what they're doing? Being honest with each other.

Sven and Faye were honest with each other, and look how that ended up.

I'd hazard to say that the last thing Sven and Faye were with each other was honest. They lied to themselves about what they wanted and by extension to each other. They kept quite about feelings they were having and only communicated in thhe most superficial of ways.

Skewbrow · « **Reply #44 on:** 02 Feb 2011, 23:49 »

Agree with bunnyThor about 1363. Doesn't mesh at all with what we now know about Angus' housemates. I'm slow with these things so let me have a reality check moment: Jeph wanted to use the (excellent) "rebound sass" -pun willy-nilly, and lead up to it the best he could (given that he was pressed for time).

Quote from: maddness on 02 Feb 2011, 23:27

I'd hazard to say that the last thing Sven and Faye were with each other was honest. They lied to themselves about what they wanted and by extension to each other. They kept quite about feelings they were having and only communicated in the most superficial of ways.

I agree with rest of this, but am somewhat hesitant to call it lying. It looked like they didn't recognize whatever feelings they had brewing. Hence couldn't really lie (as in deliberately not tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth). They still could have tried to honestly communicate that uncertainty to each other, but the way the game was played that was not going to happen. Unfamiliar territory for both of them.