Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT - 6-10 September 2010 (1746-1750)
Lost Coastlines:
Just for context, I don't think the gravity of Dora's previous relationships should really be blown out of proportion. There's a difference between being treated poorly and being abused. IMHO, Dora falls clearly in the former category for two reasons. The first of those is Dora herself. Even when we see her irrational insecurity and jealousy outbursts, she stands up to Marten (albeit against fantastical perceived transgressions). She's a pretty assertive person on a regular basis. Not really abuse victim behavior or temperament. When Sven said "treated her like shit, cheated on her, the works," he said it as her older brother. There's some hyperbole there.
The second reason is her family. Sven was obviously familiar enough with her past paramours to form an opinion. When Dora introduced Marten to her parents, her mom mentioned something about how he was the first boyfriend Dora brought home that she found attractive. It stands to reason they met some of the others. Sven may have his own drama and her parents may be off in la la land half the time, but none of them are that disconnected. It seems unlikely they'd just stand aside and let her be abused time and time again.
These old boyfriends were probably just goth versions of pre-Faye Sven who viewed her as a notch in their bedposts rather than an actual partner. Sad, but not abuse.
Graphite:
--- Quote from: Lost Coastlines on 09 Sep 2010, 03:25 --- She's a pretty assertive person on a regular basis. Not really abuse victim behavior or temperament.
--- End quote ---
Ah, but every abuse victim is different and reacts differently. Dora might have developed a particularly strong, assertive tone as a useful defense mechanism, and could have been less assertive prior to being "hardened" by her experiences in these relationships.
--- Quote ---The second reason is her family. Sven was obviously familiar enough with her past paramours to form an opinion. When Dora introduced Marten to her parents, her mom mentioned something about how he was the first boyfriend Dora brought home that she found attractive. It stands to reason they met some of the others. Sven may have his own drama and her parents may be off in la la land half the time, but none of them are that disconnected. It seems unlikely they'd just stand aside and let her be abused time and time again.
These old boyfriends were probably just goth versions of pre-Faye Sven who viewed her as a notch in their bedposts rather than an actual partner. Sad, but not abuse.
--- End quote ---
You can't really tell that someone's an abuser, though, by meeting them in a casual context. Lots of 'em are really good at hiding their abusive tendencies from the outside world - they might just come off as douchey, enough for Sven to notice, or they might come off as entirely charming and confident when in front of parents. Maybe Sven's better at recognising them than their parents, as well, because he's exhibited assholish behaviour before, or maybe he saw them in less formal contexts than "meet the parents" dinners, or maybe Dora came crying to him about them in rare moments of sibling solidarity, but rarely told her parents.
It's a leap to say her old boyfriends were abusive rather than just assholish, but it's not completely implausible, especially if you're talking verbal self-esteem-attacking abuse.
Odin:
--- Quote from: akronnick on 09 Sep 2010, 01:42 ---So is Faye coming to work tomorrow or what?
--- End quote ---
This would actually be the perfect opportunity to write Faye out of the comic.
Faye says "Fuck you, Dora!" and gets another (better, real, as in not at a fucking coffee shop and actually working somewhere not-dead-end) job, or moves back to her home state and gets a better job, or whatever. Either way, she moves out of the apartment because fuck living in the same place with toxic people when you have your own issues. Don't even bother answering the question of where things go with Angus, because it is irrelevant until Faye completes her therapy and learns to genuinely love herself rather than only standing up for herself to spite people that make her angry.
Yes, Martin and Dora are toxic people. Pretty much everyone in QC is (which is where most of the humor comes in), though, so that really shouldn't surprise anyone.
Lost Coastlines:
--- Quote from: Graphite on 09 Sep 2010, 03:32 ---
--- Quote from: Lost Coastlines on 09 Sep 2010, 03:25 --- She's a pretty assertive person on a regular basis. Not really abuse victim behavior or temperament.
--- End quote ---
Ah, but every abuse victim is different and reacts differently. Dora might have developed a particularly strong, assertive tone as a useful defense mechanism, and could have been less assertive prior to being "hardened" by her experiences in these relationships.
--- Quote ---The second reason is her family. Sven was obviously familiar enough with her past paramours to form an opinion. When Dora introduced Marten to her parents, her mom mentioned something about how he was the first boyfriend Dora brought home that she found attractive. It stands to reason they met some of the others. Sven may have his own drama and her parents may be off in la la land half the time, but none of them are that disconnected. It seems unlikely they'd just stand aside and let her be abused time and time again.
These old boyfriends were probably just goth versions of pre-Faye Sven who viewed her as a notch in their bedposts rather than an actual partner. Sad, but not abuse.
--- End quote ---
You can't really tell that someone's an abuser, though, by meeting them in a casual context. Lots of 'em are really good at hiding their abusive tendencies from the outside world - they might just come off as douchey, enough for Sven to notice, or they might come off as entirely charming and confident when in front of parents. Maybe Sven's better at recognising them than their parents, as well, because he's exhibited assholish behaviour before, or maybe he saw them in less formal contexts than "meet the parents" dinners, or maybe Dora came crying to him about them in rare moments of sibling solidarity, but rarely told her parents.
It's a leap to say her old boyfriends were abusive rather than just assholish, but it's not completely implausible, especially if you're talking verbal self-esteem-attacking abuse.
--- End quote ---
On the first point, the differences are really less than one might expect. Also, the "assertive tone as a defense mechanism" idea is kind of absurd; aggressive perhaps, but not to the abuser or perceived abuser (in this case Marten).
On the second point, fair enough that the abuser can hide it. I won't deny that this is often the case. But if this was a pattern that repeated itself as Sven said, Dora wouldn't be able to hide the effect on her from her parents, even if she never explicitly told them any details of those relationships.
Unless Dora's had some serious counseling (which she has seemed to indicate that she has not) I will say that I don't think it's plausible that these past boyfriends were really abusive.
zagraf:
Oh for Christ's sake. Marten, of all the characters, a "toxic" person. Dora needing to be dumped by "wussy" Marten. What's next, calling Hanners a crybaby attention-getter who should toss out her pills and stop seeing a "head-shrinker?"
I suspect some of the people on this forum--not most, most of you folks are great--have never meaningfully interacted with other human beings in person, except when required to for work, school or family occasions. Have never had a real friendship or relationship--again, in person.
Because such people don't seem to have a rolling fucking doughnut of an idea as to what makes real human beings--not D&D characters or MMPORG "hordes" or superheroes or whatever--tick.
To them I say: turn off your PC, go outside and meet people. Take a class. Volunteer for a non-profit cause. Hang around bookstores or jazz cafes. Get to know human beings in all their wonderful, frustrating, colourful, exhilirating, exhausting diversity. And then see if you're so damn sure about who is or isn't "toxic" or "wussy" or whatever neat little boxes you so cavalierly put people in.
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