Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT

WCDT January 3-7, 2011 (1831-1835)

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tomart:

--- Quote from: Boomslang on 05 Jan 2011, 13:09 ---What Marten almost certainly wants and needs right now is to feel in control of his life and destiny, and he's not getting any help there from anyone. What Dora hammered home, intentionally or not, is that what Marten wanted didn't matter. Dora made it clear that nothing Marten could have ever done would have changed that. What is his mom doing, this entire trip? Doing precisely what she knows Marten doesn't want her to do. Repeatedly, and without real cause.

At some point, Marten might just start agreeing with them that what he wants doesn't matter. And that's not a place you want to be in.
--- End quote ---

Jeph is great with (often uncomfortable) ironic imbalances - the noble victim Marten getting emotionally trashed by his friends and family, dumper Dora getting undeserved hugs and support.  Speaking for myself, I do tend to get uncomfortable when it goes on "too long", and that's subjectively different when we're hanging on the slow daily schedule, and later when we're breezing through the archives at lightspeed.

I'm learning to trust Jeph's script pacing - it can seem agonizingly slow to resolve a painful imbalance while it's happening, but in the grand scheme, I find later it's deliciously drawn-out, rather than agaonizingly protracted.   :-D

jwhouk:

--- Quote from: The Seldom Killer on 05 Jan 2011, 08:14 ---
--- Quote from: jwhouk on 05 Jan 2011, 06:46 ---
That is just not right.


--- End quote ---

Why do you think it's not right?

Breaking up with someone is commonly considered a bad thing. Expecting further backlash in the context of social polarization would seem to be fairly normal to me. I think it's part of how we're conditioned on social, moral and ethical transgressions.

--- End quote ---

No, no: what's not right is that she expects to be treated badly. As in "irrational desire/expectation of feeling bad" about this. Yeah, it's one thing to be given the Faye "you effed up a good thing", but it's another thing to want to be treated badly. You're OK, I'm not OK, and all that.

I'm not going to play psychologist or anything, but the level of near self-loathing Dora has ain't healthy.

EDIT: Oh, and for anyone who cares, my first name is Joe. The "JWHOUK" moniker is from the ancient days of the internet when my old dialup ISP insisted on me using my first two initials and last name as an email address. (Said ISP is now belly-up.)

Rascal:
Hello everyone. New here, been spending a lot of time in the archives (jeebus there are a lot!) trying to get caught up, but have been reading the dailies for the last few weeks.

For the record, I'm not terribly happy with Dora. She did get crazy. She did fuck things up. She is being coddled. Why? I have no freaking clue. Maybe Jeph likes her a lot and feels sympathy for her. However, I do not think that Marten should be content to be the victim here (as someone else put it above). In fact, I think both Dora and Marten are being rather immature about the whole thing.

Relationships are work. They don't just magically come into being and they don't just magically maintain themselves. They are communication, sacrifice, compromise -- all because you love that person that much, but because you love yourself too. Ironically, Dora and Marten have sufficient self-loathing (Marten's prominently on his shoulder, Dora's masked beneath denial and witty acrimony) that you kind of have to wonder how either of them could have a healthy relationship.

Nonetheless, in my opinion, the adult response to this would be for Marten to grow a pair. Dora wants to retreat, and as someone said above, be in control of the situation and her life. If she's at fault for her misery, then however stupid and pitiful that might seem, it's something she can control. As much as I can appreciate Marten's pain right now, it's on him to go all white-knight and save her -- from herself.

The adult response would be for him to tell her that even if she's giving up on the relationship, he is not. It would be to tell her that while she desperately needs therapy and must get it, he will be there with her by her side, so they can work through the obstacles and challenges of their relationship together. Marten folds far too easily. He may be loyal to a fault, but he gives in and quits far too easily once rejection rears its ugly head.

That's what they both need. Dora needs that ultimate example of someone valuing and caring for her enough to stay with her and demonstrate their love, despite her being herself at her very, very worst. And Marten needs to know that he can be a heroic figure taking control of his life, not just a tragic one to whom life simply happens.

Granted, that's all simply my opinion :)

On the other hand, we wouldn't have much of a comic if there weren't angst, drama, misery and laughter (at Marten's expense). So.... unlikely we'll see any of the above any time soon ;)

jwhouk:

--- Quote from: Wraith11B on 05 Jan 2011, 14:06 ---I've been there.  And--similarly as Nietzsche said--as you stare into that inky blackness, it stares right back into you.

I would hope that Marten does not get to be like that.  One, he's got friends that will hopefully recognize the signs of someone that gets to be like that.  Two, they interact on a regular enough cycle that it would get caught early.  I've had similar goings-on, and now am a fairly cold fish.  Marten shouldn't get that way.  He'll muddle through.

--- End quote ---

Well, I can understand that, having worked with several GW/OIF vets and hearing about their exploits - especially upon return to the states.

I'm actually with DSL on all this: Veronica may have a life PhD in Interpersonal Relationship Psychology, and may be giving each of them exactly what they need instead of what they want. (Aside: too bad Ms. Reed isn't a bit older; she might start quoting Mick Jagger.)

Only time (and Jeph's wonderful storytelling) will tell if it works or not.

Rascal:
On a side note, so much for, "...if you hurt my boy I will introduce you to a whole new realm of pain and suffering. We're talkin' stuff that would make Hieronymus Bosch shit his britches, capisce?"

I'm a bit disappointed, really. No Domme I know would be so... understanding. Not vindictive, mind you, but certainly much more "wtf is wrong with you two?"

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