Fun Stuff > BAND
women and music
Elysiana:
I'm not sure we're debating the same subject at this point, honestly. You seem to be saying that attractiveness counts in how popular a band is - and I am not disagreeing with that. I'm just saying that it's more shallow than sexist.
Regarding your second point, for some fucked-up reason lots of preteen girls apparently think Justin Bieber is hot and listen to him mostly because of that. Same thing happens with a lot of boy bands. Hell, I know women my age who go to concerts just because the singer is hot. It's not just men who make comments about female musicians, it goes both ways. Is it right? Not really, but it's going to happen.
My argument is mostly that it's sexist to say that I think male musicians are better than female musicians, but not sexist if I think this particular male musician is better than that one because he's better-looking. I realize it's pretty pedantic to argue semantics but I think the distinction is important in this case.
And no, you won't find any of my favorite bands on a Top 40 chart lol. In fact, now that I think about it... most of my favorite bands have pretty unattractive members O_o I don't quite know why it's more acceptable in one genre than another. Perhaps something to do with the style and subject matter. Someone who's singing about evil that never sleeps or writhing in embers doesn't have to look good while doing it I guess haha.
Scandanavian War Machine:
interesting real-world example for this thread would be the All Girl Summer Fun Band. those girls made some great music and had legions of followers (maybe, i hope so) but most of those chicks were "homely" at best, and downright ugly at worst.
i still love them and think they're rad, as do many others, but it's an interesting example of what you guys are talking about.
....they probably definitely would have been more successful if they were prettier though so....you know....whatever...... :|
this thread is depressing and confusing
David_Dovey:
--- Quote from: Elysiana on 28 Feb 2011, 13:42 ---I'm not sure we're debating the same subject at this point, honestly. You seem to be saying that attractiveness counts in how popular a band is - and I am not disagreeing with that. I'm just saying that it's more shallow than sexist.
--- End quote ---
As I said in the addendum to my last post, I hadn't read your contention of shallowness vs. sexism when I wrote it.
For what it's worth, I don't think I disagree with you that it's shallow, but I think it's both! Also that it's not necessarily maliciously sexist, which I get the feeling is what you think I'm implying, just indicative of a wider disparity between how women and men are judged for performing the same task, which in turn is indicative of ingrained sexism in society overall.
--- Quote ---Regarding your second point, for some fucked-up reason lots of preteen girls apparently think Justin Bieber is hot and listen to him mostly because of that. Same thing happens with a lot of boy bands. Hell, I know women my age who go to concerts just because the singer is hot. It's not just men who make comments about female musicians, it goes both ways. Is it right? Not really, but it's going to happen.
--- End quote ---
Absolutely. I think my main problem with it is that people who have that opinion of male performers, i.e; liking a male's music principally based on how they look, that opinion is regularly dismissed as stupid or inconsequential whereas I think even in the upper echelons of musical criticism, tying a female's attractiveness to her worth as a performer (regardless of the type of music she is making, just by the way) is far more acceptable and not questioned. As I said, the way I see it, if a review of a male performer mentioned his attractiveness, it would generally be dismissed as frivolity and not really relevant to the content of the music whereas the way a female performer looks can determine her identity and the way she is perceived. Once again, this isn't necessarily single reviewers being purposefully demeaning or attempting to devalue a performer's art by way of tying non-artistic factors to the overall judgment of the work, but just another way in which the fundamentally different way in which males and females are perceived in every field.
David_Dovey:
The moral of this story is that the worst possible thing you can do to negate the obscene good fortune of being born a straight white man is to become politically aware.
SO CONFUSING :psyduck:
Scandanavian War Machine:
"'Only the dreamer venoms all his days,
'Bearing more woe than all his sins deserve"
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