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Elysiana:
As a fat chick myself, I'm honestly inclined to agree with Nodaisho at least to some extent. There's a point where being overweight IS necessarily unhealthy. However, it's people like my ex-husband that piss me off; those who think that at 5'6", 125lbs is unhealthily overweight. There's this weird standard being promoted that people like that runway model are actually healthy and should be the norm, and to me that's pretty sickening. But the opposite is true too, as Nodaisho pointed out - neither one is healthy, and I got the feeling he/she IS talking about fat advocacy, not just acceptance.

I have problems with hypothyroidism and was on medication for it for years but it didn't change any of the symptoms. I gained 70lbs in about 7 years; I now weigh 180 and carry it well, but I know I'm not healthy. The scary part is when I joke about being a fat girl and someone who weighs more than me says "pfft, you don't even know what it is to be fat." No, I really do. I get the ridicule, I get the people who tell me I shouldn't eat this or that. Just because I am not the largest doesn't mean that I am healthy or that I don't feel pressure about it.

At this point, even I fall into the trap of "I'm not good-looking anyway, why should I care what I weigh? It doesn't matter because people will look at me the same way no matter what. Why bother losing 20lbs?" That's not a good attitude to have. I'm frustrated with myself because I know if I took the time to exercise, the pounds might not fall off but I'd be healthier at the very least. To say that it's okay to not even bother is NOT acceptable. I can't sit there and tell myself "I hate it that I get winded doing simple things nowadays" and then not do anything about it and feel sorry for myself.

For whatever reason, it was maybe 5 or 10 years ago that suddenly people started saying "It's okay if you're fat, you're still awesome" and people took it to an extreme. Girls that had no business wearing skinny jeans were trying to pour themselves into them, or wearing shirts where their belly hung out. That's not just acceptance, that's having no idea what's flattering and trying to pass it off as "You can't tell me how I should look, I'm fat and proud of it." I've known people who got pissed off because their DOCTOR told them they needed to look at their lifestyle and make some changes. "How dare she say that! Doesn't she know I have feelings?"

I agree that shaming them isn't the best way to act about it, but I am all for making it important for people to realize that it ISN'T okay to let yourself go completely and just say "Oh yeah? You can't tell me I'm fat, I'm a unique and special snowflake." And it's especially not okay to say, "I'm fat, and look at me! I'm famous! Fat chicks unite! We'll show them!" That's just as bad as saying, "Girls and guys should be equal, so screw guys! Girl power! Guys suck!"

Elysiana:
That's the point though, a lot of people aren't just saying "It's okay to be fat", they're implying that being fat is BETTER than being skinny, and skinny girls should go fuck themselves. It's just as stupid as saying the opposite.

I'm not sure how to answer you re: telling people they should take care of themselves. I think you're only reading half my statement though. I am not saying it's not okay to be fat. I'm saying that if you are fat, you better grow some balls and recognize that it's true. If you're okay with it, be okay with it, but don't say "Well, at least I'm not a skinny whore." I repeat what I said above - reverse discrimination is just as stupid.

Someone can't bitch and moan about how they can't do this or that, and when another person tells them "Well, you could if you lost weight" they get pissed off about it. If I have a choice to lose weight and choose not to, I can't then say "You can't call me fat!" I am making the choice to take all the negativity that goes along with it, whether or not it's right. I can't go to the doctor and when they tell me "You know you're obese, let's put you on a diet plan" I say, "How dare you tell me that! It offends my delicate sensibilities!" A doctor's job is to keep me healthy. By choosing not to listen to their advice, I am choosing to accept any health problems that come my way because of my weight.

Right now I'm 6 months pregnant. I have a one-hour glucose test in a few weeks. I am at high risk for gestational diabetes because of my weight. Do you know how it feels to realize that I fucked up and am already not giving my daughter the best life I can? It has nothing to do with people telling me I'm fat and me feeling depressed about that; it has everything to do with my health. Nobody wants to be unhealthy, we've just made bad choices and it's often hard to change those until it's too late. Shame isn't the way to fix that, but it also doesn't mean that everyone should sit back and say it's fine.

allison:
The idea of fat advocacy is ridiculous. I am also a fat woman and I have been fat my whole life! I don't love it, I honestly wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. It's not better than being skinny, but some fat people are maybe trying to make their image a little more acceptable, to not feel like people find them absolutely repulsive.


--- Quote from: Elysiana on 01 Mar 2011, 08:54 ---
At this point, even I fall into the trap of "I'm not good-looking anyway, why should I care what I weigh? It doesn't matter because people will look at me the same way no matter what. Why bother losing 20lbs?" That's not a good attitude to have. I'm frustrated with myself because I know if I took the time to exercise, the pounds might not fall off but I'd be healthier at the very least. To say that it's okay to not even bother is NOT acceptable. I can't sit there and tell myself "I hate it that I get winded doing simple things nowadays" and then not do anything about it and feel sorry for myself.


--- End quote ---

So, the other day I was at work, just standing there, and some guys looked at me and one loudly remarked to the other that I should "consider trying out for the A&E program Heavy." Now, I am not that fat. I am not morbidly obese, I'm a size 16. But this kind of fat-shaming makes me actually frightened to go to a gym. If people are going to ridicule me when I am at work, what will they say to or about me when I am sweating and winded and making a pathetic attempt at running?

also


--- Quote from: Elysiana on 01 Mar 2011, 08:54 ---Girls that had no business wearing skinny jeans were trying to pour themselves into them, or wearing shirts where their belly hung out. That's not just acceptance, that's having no idea what's flattering and trying to pass it off as "You can't tell me how I should look, I'm fat and proud of it."

--- End quote ---

Who the hell are you to say whose business it is to do anything regarding their own appearance? I wear goddamn skinny jeans and they actually look pretty nice. Maybe I don't enjoy another's fashion choices, but I'm not about to tell them they can't wear it. That's just absolutely fucking ridiculous. Maybe they feel sexy in it, maybe they like the way they look. But of course fat people are disgusting and shouldn't be able to feel happy with their appearance! MUUMUUS FOR ALL THE FATTIES! Better yet, just stay inside until you get skinny. Don't make me look at you.


This thread is not about fat vs. skinny in terms of health though, it's about female musicians!

This is Adele. She is an incredible singer who works very, very hard and has some mainstream success (I think she has two Grammys?). Apart from loving her music, I think she's incredibly beautiful. She also happens to be overweight. However, when this is mentioned in interviews, she basically shuts down the question by saying "until this affects my music, my health or my having a boyfriend, it doesn't matter." I know people will say that this is already affecting her health, but I suppose she means not immediately.

The reason I mention her is that she never brings up her weight, and does her best to let her music and her process as an artist be the focus of attention. She doesn't use it to her advantage, in my opinion, but she also doesn't let it hinder her career.

Nodaisho:

--- Quote from: Jeans on 01 Mar 2011, 08:01 ---The obvious implication of this argument is that it's better to be fat and ashamed rather than fat and content with yourself, regardless of your physical condition, because being fat is regarded as inherently inferior to being skinny. Whether or not it's healthy is totally besides the point because you can be skinny as hell and the most unhealthy person in the world, and conversely, you can be heavy-set and in good shape. There is a correlation, of course, but even so, fat acceptance isn't the same as fat advocacy, nor is it about promoting an unhealthy lifestyle - being fat doesn't mean you're not living a healthy life, and being skinny doesn't mean you are! Don't you think it's unbelievably cruel to make obese people ashamed of themselves just so they'll have an extra incentive to go for a jog now and then?

And while we're talking about eating disorders: what do you think causes more eating disorders - telling people it's okay to be fat, or shaming them into trying to be thin?

(And I think you're underestimating the value of combating oppressive standards of attractiveness when this is what a runway model looks like.)

--- End quote ---

Actually, no, that isn't the implication at all. Thanks for putting words in my mouth, though. I have always found "fat acceptance" to have an almost complete overlap with fat advocacy. I'm not concerned with someone being chubby. I'm concerned with someone being in a physical condition where if they were to have a child at 30, they probably wouldn't live to see them graduate highschool. I'm concerned with peoples' health problems, and how when people say that they want to lose weight when they are overweight, people will try to discourage them because you should be happy the way you are.

Shaming someone into trying to be thin causes more eating disorders, but telling someone it is okay to have 40% body fat causes more heart attacks.

Nodaisho:
I have, actually. And a lot of people I talk fitness with mention it happening. Maybe it's an American thing.

I've gotten similar responses when I mention that I'm trying to put on more muscle as well.

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