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[Dr. ROFLPWN]

@Odin: Well yeah, from the perspective that matters, her own, she's an ogre, but also see Carl's argument, cause he worded it better. I'm too busy tripping over all this goddamn "you cannot perceive what the characters in a visual medium actually look like" horseshit.

This isn't a question of perception, since Marigold doesn't have any actual free will here (she is going to do exactly what Jeph makes her do), though.

In this instance, Jeph is dictating that Marigold is actually ugly. Look again at how quickly Dora and Hannelore dropped their arguments (shitty as they were to start with).

....Th--I don't even. I'll give you the Jeph-determinism, I guess, even though it's a stretch? But the leap that Marigold is actually ugly because Jeph has dictated that she perceives herself as ugly and all that is just as dumb as snub's idea. I....just...fgsfds 

[Is it cold in here?]

Marigirl is plump, anyway. Her belly hangs out over her waistline. Her nose size exceeds conventional standards.

The reference to Raven's weight struggles is #562.

The way Jeph draws each character varies, but his intent doesn't change as fast. In the "Fat Faye" thread, he said that Faye was consistently attractive to the other characters, over a time period where her appearance on screen changed a lot.

Hannelore doesn't seem like the sort to engage in disingenuous flattery, and she was the first to say Marigirl is pretty. So I think that's what Jeph is trying to convey, that she's a diamond in the rough.

[Kugai]

Sounds to me that if anyone else in the CoD Universe needs Therapy, it's Marigold.  She really has some self-image issues.

[Odin]

@Odin: Well yeah, from the perspective that matters, her own, she's an ogre, but also see Carl's argument, cause he worded it better. I'm too busy tripping over all this goddamn "you cannot perceive what the characters in a visual medium actually look like" horseshit.

This isn't a question of perception, since Marigold doesn't have any actual free will here (she is going to do exactly what Jeph makes her do), though.

In this instance, Jeph is dictating that Marigold is actually ugly. Look again at how quickly Dora and Hannelore dropped their arguments (shitty as they were to start with).

....Th--I don't even. I'll give you the Jeph-determinism, I guess, even though it's a stretch? But the leap that Marigold is actually ugly because Jeph has dictated that she perceives herself as ugly and all that is just as dumb as snub's idea. I....just...fgsfds 

I'm talking about both physically and mentally/emotionally ugly, to be clear.

No one that is constantly self-derogatory like Marigold is ever ends up being seen as attractive, ever.

[Carl-E]

Marigirl is plump, anyway. Her belly hangs out over her waistline. Her nose size exceeds conventional standards.

Plump's OK, the problem is that she thinks she's fat.  As for the nose, it's not really size so much as shape.  Looking back, it's what's called aquiline.  Not enough to be a beak, but definitely a prominent bridge (as oposed to the ski slope my glasses continuously slide down).  In Marigold's case, the result is nearly perfectly triangular, much different than everyone else in the comic.  The only other really unusually shaped nose in the cast is Angus', with its slightly bulbous end. 

Oh, and Wil has a fair sized bridge, but the rest slopes, giving it that waterslide look.  Sort of like an adam's apple of the nose. 

she's a diamond in the rough.

Shame all she sees is a lump of coal...

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

OK, I will. 

Odin; thanks for clearing that up.  But self image can change.  Like Kugai says, it may need therapy, or at least some friends to clear your vision. 

Then again, if she actually gets straightened out, we'll lose some of teh funny. 

[tbones]

I'm talking about both physically and mentally/emotionally ugly, to be clear.

No one that is constantly self-derogatory like Marigold is ever ends up being seen as attractive, ever.

Welp, unless they grow out of that. I mean, if you maturate enough....

[Near Lurker]

Due to Jeph's art style, I'd say that Marigold is a bit fatter than some people might be perceiving her, with worse skin and ill-behaved hair.  Yes, it's a visual medium, but it's a very stylized one.

Dora, on the other hand, is very thin, and at least has good enough skin that she can hide her blemishes without looking like Mimi from Drew Carey.  A short skirt probably won't work for Marigold, although she might benefit from... oh, no...

Jeph's going to cut her hair off.

[CaptainFish]

Marigirl is plump, anyway. Her belly hangs out over her waistline.

Do you have an example of this, because, as I linked before, here or here she doesn't show any sign of pudginess at all. I looked across some strips and this strip where she is changing looks a little love handle-y and thats probably the best example of her self-perceived 'weight problem'.*

I agree that the plump portrayal is probably what we're supposed to see, I'm just not sure how well the art brings that across. That's why I think her poor opinion of herself comes across as completely unwarranted, she isn't drawn less pretty than anyone else.

I will say that it's completely understandable that she equates her lack of success in dating with looking bad. However, in this case it might more be an issue of anxiety and how she carries herself socially due to the poor way she's been treated in the past.

*I hope this doesn't come across creepy, I'm just interested in the dichotomy between how she's drawn and how she's perceived.

[iduguphergrave]

Shes got an itty bit of a belly as can be seen here and here. Personally I think it makes her look cuter. ^_^ She's just a little zaftig

[Blood-Tree]

As a keen jacket aficionado, I have to state, for the record, that Hannelore has a rather superb jacket. Just look how well-fitted it is in panel 2.

It is my sincere and earnest belief that, if The Amazing MarMar were to ditch the green-blob-like hooded sweatshirt and join Ms H in Jacketville, then all of her problems would immediately be solved.

All of them. Immediately.

Such is the power of a well-fitted jacket.

[Skewbrow]

Shes got an itty bit of a belly as can be seen here and here. Personally I think it makes her look cuter. ^_^ She's just a little zaftig

May be zäftig is the word? I thought it means something a little bit meatier than what is showing in those strips, but whatever .

I can't help feeling that the little love handles showing in the strips you cited are not really there! The little plump is just her hip points that are showing because she's wearing a pair of those ridiculously low hanging pants that fail to cover her underwear.

Hmm. On second thought may be that kind of pants only look ridiculous on me? The inevitable cleft ...

[Carl-E]

While she is wearing her pants a bit low (a style I just don't understand or find comfortable, but try finding jeans that aren't  cut that way anymore), there's a bit of a belly/love handles showing in the respective strips.  Nothing out of the ordinary, though - I personally find people without 'em look a bit odd and malnourished... you really can't have boobs of that dimension without a fairly decent layer of adipose tissue, which will also give you accentuated hips and other, softer curves. 

And my understanding of zaftig  (same as zäftig, we are umlaut-lazy in the US) is that it means pleasantly plump, nothing mean is intended.  Of course, that may have changed in the thin-obsessed world we now live in.  My references for beauty go back to those 70's playmates Sven was going on about...  no ribs, hip bones or six-packs showing there! 

"Love is not love that alters when it alteration finds..."

[reboundstudent]

Okay can we just please knock it off with the "oh if she just exercised and wore make-up she'd realize she's pretty!"

Sometimes... people are just ugly.

I consider myself very similar to Marigold. I have a "curvy"/fat body (bust: 35 1/2, waist: 32 1/4, and hips: 36 3/4, height 5" and weight 123), mousy brown hair and a large prominent nose. I've heard it ALL... that if I dressed better, wore make-up, smiled!, then suddenly I'd be beautiful.

Well I'm doing those things. I wear make-up every morning, I work out three days a week, I take a shower every day, wash my hair, wear it back from my face, have at least some semblance of style (jeans, blouse, and boots with some heel) and ya know what, I'm STILL not pretty. I STILL don't have guys paying attention to me or people treating me any differently than when I was ten pounds heavier in high school and thought a cup bra was some ancient torture device.

Sometimes, people are just ugly. You can make an ugly person passable, but ya can't make em pretty (not by societal standards, anyway.) Is it really low self esteem to point that out??

[Carl-E]

I doubt you're nearly as ugly as you think you are.  However, just because you're not beating them off with a stick doesn't mean you're ugly.  It's the next to last sentence that's most telling...

You can make an ugly person passable, but ya can't make em pretty (not by societal standards, anyway.) Is it really low self esteem to point that out??

Societal standards are bullshit, but they're how you're judged by society.  They also change over time and from one culture to another. 

So yes, it really is  low self-esteem, to a certain extent.  Society says you're not pretty, and that shifting "standard" makes you feel like shit about yourself.  You may feel that you've "accepted" this, but that doesn't mean you don't  have low self esteem about your looks.  Self-esteem isn't self imposed, despite the name. 



Then again, maybe you really are  ugly.  Damned if I  know...   

[iduguphergrave]

Okay can we just please knock it off with the "oh if she just exercised and wore make-up she'd realize she's pretty!"

Sometimes... people are just ugly.

I consider myself very similar to Marigold. I have a "curvy"/fat body (bust: 35 1/2, waist: 32 1/4, and hips: 36 3/4, height 5" and weight 123), mousy brown hair and a large prominent nose. I've heard it ALL... that if I dressed better, wore make-up, smiled!, then suddenly I'd be beautiful.

Well I'm doing those things. I wear make-up every morning, I work out three days a week, I take a shower every day, wash my hair, wear it back from my face, have at least some semblance of style (jeans, blouse, and boots with some heel) and ya know what, I'm STILL not pretty. I STILL don't have guys paying attention to me or people treating me any differently than when I was ten pounds heavier in high school and thought a cup bra was some ancient torture device.

Sometimes, people are just ugly. You can make an ugly person passable, but ya can't make em pretty (not by societal standards, anyway.) Is it really low self esteem to point that out??

Ok wow way to completely miss the point. Marigold isn't stunning but good christ she isn't ugly! And granted I skimmed a few of these comments but I don't think that's really what anyone was getting at. Dora isn't saying Marigold needs a makeover because she's ugly, but because she doesn't know how to show off what she's got, not to mention the confidence boost that often comes with changing one's image. She isn't ugly, dear, and I'm willing to bet that you aren't, either!

[Akima]

It's a bit difficult to take the Marigold is/isn't ugly thing seriously when she is Hollywood homely at worst. But self-acceptance comes from within regardless of how you look. I'm working on it...

[iduguphergrave]

Wait, I just realized something. Angus self-admittedly has a "type:" short, curvy, thick glasses...and guess what his roommate looks like?

No I'm not insinuating they're gonna get together, just that Angus appreciates a little eye candy around his domicile.

Well played, Mr. McPhee, you dog, you. Well played. 

[jwhouk]

We also know that Raven must have been very hot. She has a full book of potential one night stands.

However we know she had to put effort into getting (back?) to that point. According to Dora, when she was in college she was heavier and got no attention thanks to a lot of "french fries and sulking", so she made the conscious decision to get back into shape and take better care of herself, then she started getting attention again. (Archive experts help me out please; I think it was said in or around Marten and Dora's first date, probably in the early-mid 600s?)

A reason to take her off the bus for a while, perhaps?

That was during the unofficial Dora/Marten first date.

EDIT: Which someone already pointed out but didn't link to.

What we've got here is a serious battle between "perception is reality" vs. "appearances can be deceiving", and they're both fighting dirty.  

"They see me trollin', self-hatin', My problems are both fightin' dirty (they both fightin' dirty, percs and apps fightin' dirty...)"

(Sorry, had to do it...)

As a keen jacket aficionado, I have to state, for the record, that Hannelore has a rather superb jacket. Just look how well-fitted it is in panel 2.

It is my sincere and earnest belief that, if The Amazing MarMar were to ditch the green-blob-like hooded sweatshirt and join Ms H in Jacketville, then all of her problems would immediately be solved.

All of them. Immediately.

Such is the power of a well-fitted jacket.

The irony is that Hanners picked that up at a thrift store a week ago.

It's a bit difficult to take the Marigold is/isn't ugly thing seriously when she is Hollywood homely at worst. But self-acceptance comes from within regardless of how you look. I'm working on it...

PHWEEET! "Five minute major for linking to TV Tropes!"

EDIT: Whew. Post Consolidation is hard.

[Is it cold in here?]

Marigirl is plump, anyway. Her belly hangs out over her waistline.

Do you have an example of this, because, as I linked before, here or here she doesn't show any sign of pudginess at all. I looked across some strips and this strip where she is changing looks a little love handle-y and thats probably the

That's the one I had in mind.

exotic

Is exotic good? Susan Sarandon's character in Bull Durham was outraged to be called "cute", insisting that she wanted to be regarded as exotic, but Meena definitely did not feel the same way.

[teclo]

I have to admit I love Marigold's nose, theres something about it that just works for me. 

[teclo]

Also if they do insist on giving Marigold a makeover, they should avoid the whole over the top type. Aim her towards a falteringly cut business suit or pinstripe pant suit.

Dang, pinstripe pant suits on a woman with curves? Awesome...

I think forcing her into trying to look attractive for dating will backfire, but making her look powerful for work, that may work towards her self esteem.

[brew]

Is exotic good? Susan Sarandon's character in Bull Durham was outraged to be called "cute", insisting that she wanted to be regarded as exotic, but Meena definitely did not feel the same way.

Exotic is insulting if you're a racial minority, good if you're pale white.

[bicostp]

That was during the unofficial Dora/Marten first date.

EDIT: Which someone already pointed out but didn't link to.

Hey give me a break that was a "5 minutes after I was supposed to leave for work" post and I flat out asked for help finding it because I only had a vague idea of where it was.

[Is it cold in here?]

I think he was talking about me: I gave the strip number but didn't linkify it.

Teclo has a good idea. Build up Marigirl's confidence first, and only then subject her to the horrors of dating. Dating without self-confidence but with normal horniness can lead to bad outcomes.

[Is it cold in here?]

... Marigold doesn't have any actual free will here (she is going to do exactly what Jeph makes her do), though.

Creative people on good days report that it feels as though their characters have free will and do things the authors weren't expecting, at least not consciously.

[Method of Madness]

... Marigold doesn't have any actual free will here (she is going to do exactly what Jeph makes her do), though.

Creative people on good days report that it feels as though their characters have free will and do things the authors weren't expecting, at least not consciously.

Plus, you could argue that we have no more free will than they do...but that's probably for another thread.

[DSL]

... Marigold doesn't have any actual free will here (she is going to do exactly what Jeph makes her do), though.

Creative people on good days report that it feels as though their characters have free will and do things the authors weren't expecting, at least not consciously.

I've heard a number of creative types say that precise thing. I believe Jeph has hinted at the same thing in a few things I've read.

[Method of Madness]

I should point out that this thread is as bad as TVTropes.  Why?  Because I'll read it, and someone will mention a certain strip, and I'll click on it...and then read the next two hundred

[bicostp]

So creativity leads to schizophrenia, or is it the other way around?

[Odin]

Creative people on good days report that it feels as though their characters have free will and do things the authors weren't expecting, at least not consciously.

Plus, you could argue that we have no more free will than they do...but that's probably for another thread.

The difference between us and Jeph's characters is that there is quite literally no god pulling our strings. Non-religious Determinism is pretty much the order of the day for everyone (it is an extremely complicated thing, but true free will doesn't exist), yes.

[Method of Madness]

Creative people on good days report that it feels as though their characters have free will and do things the authors weren't expecting, at least not consciously.

Plus, you could argue that we have no more free will than they do...but that's probably for another thread.

The difference between us and Jeph's characters is that there is quite literally no god pulling our strings. Non-religious Determinism is pretty much the order of the day for everyone (it is an extremely complicated thing, but true free will doesn't exist), yes.

We're actually in agreement on the deterministic universe, at least for the most part, but Jeph is hardly an omnipotent being, even regarding his own creation.  He's still affected by outside influences, even if he doesn't realize it (that's not a criticism, he's human).

Modified portion: Also, unrelated, but your avatar kicks all sorts of ass.

[musicalsoul]

Okay can we just please knock it off with the "oh if she just exercised and wore make-up she'd realize she's pretty!"

Sometimes... people are just ugly.

I consider myself very similar to Marigold. I have a "curvy"/fat body (bust: 35 1/2, waist: 32 1/4, and hips: 36 3/4, height 5" and weight 123), mousy brown hair and a large prominent nose. I've heard it ALL... that if I dressed better, wore make-up, smiled!, then suddenly I'd be beautiful.

Well I'm doing those things. I wear make-up every morning, I work out three days a week, I take a shower every day, wash my hair, wear it back from my face, have at least some semblance of style (jeans, blouse, and boots with some heel) and ya know what, I'm STILL not pretty. I STILL don't have guys paying attention to me or people treating me any differently than when I was ten pounds heavier in high school and thought a cup bra was some ancient torture device.

Sometimes, people are just ugly. You can make an ugly person passable, but ya can't make em pretty (not by societal standards, anyway.) Is it really low self esteem to point that out??

I think it's low self-esteem to consider yourself ugly. That's just my personal opinion.

Whether you're beautiful by societal standards is totally irrelevant when it comes to how you feel about you. Everyone has a different definition of beautiful. You know, the whole beauty is in the eye of the beholder thing.

Everyone is beautiful in their own way. And the one thing that always helps make everyone a bit more beautiful is having confidence in their beauty. I didn't really figure that out until pretty recently. But, I honest to God, believe that everyone is beautiful, even if I'm not attracted to them. I can always find something that I think is pretty.

[Mr_Rose]

So creativity leads to schizophrenia, or is it the other way around?

Very nearly all "mental disorders" are exaggerations of otherwise useful traits to one extreme or another. This is why they are so hard to treat; if they were genuine aberrations, complete excision would be a viable treatment, achievable with old-fashioned brute force & ignorance, but in the vast majority of cases what is required is mitigation to within "normal" or at least "acceptable" levels.

[cabbagehut]

Okay can we just please knock it off with the "oh if she just exercised and wore make-up she'd realize she's pretty!"

Sometimes... people are just ugly.

I consider myself very similar to Marigold. I have a "curvy"/fat body (bust: 35 1/2, waist: 32 1/4, and hips: 36 3/4, height 5" and weight 123), mousy brown hair and a large prominent nose. I've heard it ALL... that if I dressed better, wore make-up, smiled!, then suddenly I'd be beautiful.

Well I'm doing those things. I wear make-up every morning, I work out three days a week, I take a shower every day, wash my hair, wear it back from my face, have at least some semblance of style (jeans, blouse, and boots with some heel) and ya know what, I'm STILL not pretty. I STILL don't have guys paying attention to me or people treating me any differently than when I was ten pounds heavier in high school and thought a cup bra was some ancient torture device.

Sometimes, people are just ugly. You can make an ugly person passable, but ya can't make em pretty (not by societal standards, anyway.) Is it really low self esteem to point that out??

Honestly, I sort of agree.  I don't look anything like Marigold, but sometimes... you're just sort of unfortunate-looking.  I think the storyline here is that Marigold is voluntarily that way, and she could change it, but she's not in the camp that believes it can be.

My mom jokingly threatens to put me on What Not To Wear, which is why I love Marigold's response.  People act like the cancer's gone into remission because their mom put on a dress and got her hair cut.  While I can understand the value in dressing nicely and feeling good about yourself, it's really image-centric and that just bothers me.  It feels like there's so much pressure on women to "take care of themselves" (read: dress nicely and wear makeup and stuff) in order to feel good.  Maybe because I AM jealous, who knows?

[Is it cold in here?]

Faye notices the gender difference in appearance standards.

[Odin]

Faye notices the gender difference in appearance standards.

And Jeph's newspost comment is the true explanation for why Marigold rejects the skirt advice out-of-hand!

[TheEvilDog]

I'd jokingly suggest plastic surgery as an option, but given Marigold's self-esteem problems, that would just cause more problems in the long run.

And somehow I think Marigold would end up looking like the Bride of Wildenstein.
  (seriously, there needs to be an ill/sick emote on here)

[bicostp]

Honestly, I sort of agree.  I don't look anything like Marigold, but sometimes... you're just sort of unfortunate-looking.  I think the storyline here is that Marigold is voluntarily that way, and she could change it, but she's not in the camp that believes it can be.

I think the problem is she isn't giving herself enough credit. No she's not a knockout SI model, but she's also not the hideous sideshow attraction she sees herself as. A lot of it probably came from the teasing she received because of her behavior and interests in her school years (you don't get a frog down the back of your shirt for no reason), and was exasperated by being a recluse in college. It's very difficult to break out of that "I'm a hideous idiot nobody actually likes me" mindset.

Of course, being surrounded by other women so skinny they could hide behind a fence post doesn't help much either. She doesn't seem to think there is any difference between "full-figured" and "moo".

e:

(seriously, there needs to be an ill/sick emote on here)

You can borrow this one!

[TheEvilDog]

(seriously, there needs to be an ill/sick emote on here)

You can borrow this one!

Thank you.

[iduguphergrave]

Presumably also a lot of people in Marigold's past have told her she's ugly.

This is what I'm thinking. She says shes never had a date and if the title of this comic is actually true, the last time she was invited to any kind of social gathering (before meeting Marten and Co., anyway) was in 8th grade. The point is, I think it's safe to assume that people have been telling her, both in words and in actions, that she's ugly and unwanted for a very long time. That kind of treatment takes its toll; what else is she supposed to think when someone sincerely tells her she's pretty? Experience has told her otherwise.

[cannoli]

Apologies in advance if anyone finds the forcefulness of my words offensive, and no I have not read the thread, and yes Jeph has the absolute right to write his comic any way he wants, but:

I CALL BULLSHIT.

I am a smart person, a compassionate person, I am caring and forgiving and possess a decent, if quirky, sense of humor.  I am also ugly. No matter how I change myself with makeup or clothing to fit other people's perceptions, I am still ugly.  Because of this, no guy has ever or will ever consider me a candidate for anything resembling romance or a relationship.  I can get laid, sure; but that is not relevant to the point.  I am ugly, and no one, NO ONE, ever looks beyond the surface to the inner self, or any of that other crap that Hollywood and idealistic idiots like to sell - people fall in love with pretty people, period.

And before anyone plays the self-esteem card: I am perfectly fine with myself, thank you very much.  I know who I am and what I'm worth, and if the rest of the world is unable to realize that an ugly face has nothing to do with my value as a person, that is entirely their problem.  I'm not angry or hostile about the fact that no one will ever fall in love with me - only with yet another iteration of the same old tired meme that "looks don't matter" and that ugly can somehow become "pretty" with anything less than extensive plastic surgery.  I've long since come to terms with the fact that any sort of romantic relationship is completely off the table for me, and I've learned to be content with that.  For me, friendship will have to suffice... and to be honest, it's in no way an inadequate substitute; many if not most of my friendships are far more intimate than a whole lot of the relationships and marriages I've witnessed will ever be.

Everyone likes to believe that things like "true love" are fair, and based on a person's heart instead of their looks, and that the underdog has some chance of winning the Hollywood ending.  In point of fact, that does not happen.  I would be delighted with this storyline and the fact that FINALLY someone is spouting the uncomfortable but very real truths involved, were it not for the accompanying editorial comments that seem to me to be indicating that yet another typical reveal is in store.  Which, if it comes to that, will be the one thing that will make me turn away from the comic permanently.  Suspension of disbelief is one thing - insulting my intelligence is quite another.

I am certain that there are many who will disagree with my statements. I am equally certain that none of those people are or have ever been ugly, nor have ever fallen in love with or even considered dating an ugly person.  I have lived with this face for over four decades, and I know whereof I speak.  That is all.

[themacnut]

It would be interesting if it turned out that Marigold really ISN'T attractive and has to find something else to base her self-esteem on, and learn to live with the fact that she'll never be in a romantic relationship because of that. But I don't think Jeph is going that way with Marigold.

The way she's presented in the comic, Marigold isn't hideous. She isn't conventionally attractive either, but all she's really going to need (again, based off the way she's being presented in the comic) is to put more time and care into her appearance and hygiene, and spring for some more flattering clothes. Plastic surgery would be overkill for her, even with her impressive nose.

[bicostp]

And before anyone plays the self-esteem card: I am perfectly fine with myself, thank you very much.  I know who I am and what I'm worth, and if the rest of the world is unable to realize that an ugly face has nothing to do with my value as a person, that is entirely their problem.

This is the key, right here. You're confident with who you are, Marigold has never been written that way. Her appearance is one attribute she's unhappy with, and changing it may or may not help her self esteem.

[jwhouk]

... Marigold doesn't have any actual free will here (she is going to do exactly what Jeph makes her do), though.

Creative people on good days report that it feels as though their characters have free will and do things the authors weren't expecting, at least not consciously.

Example: Faye's reaction to Dora kissing Marten way back. See the liner notes on 566.

[StevenC]

I am ugly, and no one, NO ONE, ever looks beyond the surface to the inner self, or any of that other crap that Hollywood and idealistic idiots like to sell - people fall in love with pretty people, period.

Well, then I'm not a person I guess. The girl I love would be by all means considered ugly by the majority of people. But guess what? I don't give a damn. I love her because she is an awesome person.

[shiroihikari]

I am ugly, and no one, NO ONE, ever looks beyond the surface to the inner self, or any of that other crap that Hollywood and idealistic idiots like to sell - people fall in love with pretty people, period.

I think saying "people only fall in love with pretty people" is just plain wrong in some cases.  You can't paint all of humanity with such a broad brushstroke.  For some people, personality does matter more than physical beauty.  An attractive personality can really make up for a lot.  Also, you give Hollywood shit for saying we should look beyond physical beauty, but then you turn and say only pretty people find love?  I think Hollywood shoves the latter down our throats more than the former, personally.

I think Marigold's real problem is that she is far too wrapped up in her anxiety to let other people in, and that's just not a very attractive quality.  Also, being "needy" can turn people off too.  I do think that trying to dress nice and what-have-you would help her.  I don't know about other women, but I generally feel better when I "take care of myself", which in turn helps me be more confident in my interactions with others. 

[Is it cold in here?]

Dora may be trying to help because she was in a situation like Marigirl's when she was in high school, the weirdo with bad skin and an unfashionable wardrobe.

[CaptainFish]

One thing I will say is that Marigold's confidence in stating her opinions is great. I like her character when she's assertive and confident, as exemplified by her dealings with Dale, her talks with Angus and Faye after crying at that party and here. Even when she was first introduced she was confident in her demands to make sure Pintsize wasn't being abused; when Mare-Bear cares* about something she comes across almost uncharacteristically decisive.

Mare-Care-Bear? Mare-Bear countdown: 4, 3, 2, 1.

[Carl-E]

Appearances are not everything.  And love is not strictly based on appearances.  Cannoli, one of these days it will hit you - one of your friends is more than that to you, and you to them.  

And it will be one hell of a shock, because you didn't think it would ever happen.  

Just do both of you a favor - don't shove that person away because you don't believe him/her.  Don't throw it away - even for the pretty people, it's a rare and wonderful thing.  

[/hopeful  romantic]

[Odin]

You don't have to be pretty to be seen as attractive, having loads of money or being in an influential position of power works as well.