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Dora's got her next career planned out.

Jim and Dora - I'll be scared when their plan comes together.

Jim the Hipster Baker.

"Totally have time to clean this up."

Dora the baby breeder, nice ring to it.

Check Please!

Marigold starting to dance.

Marigold stopping when she got an audience...Creepy Hanners.

Babies - Awful, little mewling poo-larvae.

Technically Jim's divorced next Tuesday.

:I Dora, finally gets the hang of Jim's humour...hopefully.

[pwhodges]

We also notice your split infinitive ; after all, even Fowler said that rule was a waste of space.

[Border Reiver]

What parent hasn't had that happen at some point?  

Not necessarily the fire, but the kid thinking that "I can fix it and they will never know."

Usually followed by Mom/Dad/Parental figure walking in at inappropriate moment...

And as for the "gendered pronoun" nonsense  - yeah Akronnick!  Although, if referring to actual people or characters, I don't see their use as a problem.  

[pwhodges]

Fire?  I set the house on fire when I was seven or eight; my little sister's earliest memory is of sitting on a fireman's knee!

[akronnick]

We also notice your split infinitive ; after all, even Fowler said that rule was a waste of space.

And it didn't make the sentence harder to understand at all, did it?

There is also a terminal pronoun, do you even notice it?

[mike837go]

the singular 'they' is wrong

But all bets are off anyway when you're changing the language.

And....while we're eliminating gender-based pronouns, lets do phonetic spelling too!

[jwhouk]

Dora looks like she's being charmed 

Also she's taking the fact that he's a dad better than I thought she would. Cool.

Yeah, I almost expected the third panel to be a "WHAAAATTTT????" instead of an "Awwww."

[jwhouk]

new character!!!

Will Jim's wife be a new character too or is she someone we already know?

Veronica Vance.

*ducks thrown items*

THWAPTHWAPTHWAP THWAPTHWAPTHWAP SPLAT!

[nonethousand]

new character!!!

Will Jim's wife be a new character too or is she someone we already know?

Veronica Vance.

*ducks thrown items*

THWAPTHWAPTHWAP THWAPTHWAPTHWAP SPLAT!

was that a whip thrown?

btw, when I asked, I was thinking of Gina Riversmith (NSFW)

[Somnus Eternus]

That literally just happened last night with my little cousin.  Just like that.  Well, except dad was out with his wife.

Uncanny.

[Akima]

Off-topic: I've read philosophy paper/essay things which use the genderless pronouns 'ey', 'em' and 'eir'. I would use those because I find assigning a gender awkward and the singular 'they' is wrong, but I worry about looking like a loser. Finland is so progressive.

Heh... I should obviously have put a smiley after my remark about "she" rather than "it"... Sorry.

The singular "they" was good enough for Shakespeare, Thackeray, Jane Austen, Mark Twain and many other great writers over centuries. I am certainly not going to claim I know English better than they. Wikipedia suggests that a particular hostility to the singular "they" is an Americanism, so I'm not going to worry about it. In spoken Chinese, the words meaning he, she, and it are all pronounced identically as "tā", but are written as 他, 她, and 它 respectively, and the "generic" male pronoun is used just as it is in English, so we're certainly no better off.

[pwhodges]

And....while we're eliminating gender-based pronouns, lets do phonetic spelling too!

Actually, I prefer that we all spell (mostly) the same even if we pronounce differently; phonetic spelling written by someone else gets hard to read surprisingly quickly.

[NotAwesomeAnymore]

For the record, my first comment on this was sarcastic.

The issue comes in when a person wants to describe a hypothetical situation and needs to refer to (?) imaginary person in the third-person. If this hypothetical story goes on for a long time (?) will have to assign a gender. What if this person is writing about rape or sexual assault. Does (?) really want a bunch of people getting offended because (?) spoke about it only in the male or female pronoun?

There are ways around that, like disclaimers, his/her, or the passive voice etc. but why be inefficient?

I'll concede on the singular 'they', but I'm not allowed to use it in exams - lose marks for error of conchord or something. A real-life problem I had though was with this person who was completely angrogynous and whenever people spoke about them in the third-person they would pause a moment and then go "It..." I was never comfortable enough to ask them what they wanted to be called - I was like 11. And to this day they don't have a gender on Facebook. Is 'they' working? I am not a great writer like Twain 

[grimeyville]

Just asking in case no one else is wondering it but me...

Is it possible that Jim's daughter has a college-age older sister?

...Who's orange...

Like her?

 

[lepetitfromage]

  I'm happy about Dora's reaction- makes sense in a way, considering that none of the characters have kids thus far and they are approaching the age when most females begin to catch baby fever. (Granted, his kid is definitely not a baby but this scenario could draw out some of Dora's maternal instincts and thus raise the maturity bar) Dora is at an age where it might do her some good to have someone to look after and take a little of the focus off of herself. I'm sure it won't be as selfless as the mother/baby bond but one could argue that a preteen can sometimes be just as needy. This new person could keep her entertained!  

As far as Daughter's age? I can't see her as 10. For one thing, she's too tall. She's slouching and she's still only a foot or so shorter than the fridge. Standing straight, I'm sure she'll gain a few inches. Sooo, she's at least 5ft. Also- if she were ten years old, she probably wouldn't have the strength and control over that fire extinguisher to only hit the stove....that stuff would have been all over the kitchen. I see her as 12, maybe 13.

The way I see it, this new development could make or break the chance of Dora and Jim's pending relationship success, based on the rapport between Dora and Daughter (IF and when they meet).  Either Dora and Jim's daughter get along famously and Dora slips easily into the role of "Dad's girlfriend" or his daughter doesn't like Dora and not only does it strain Jim's relationship with his daughter, it brings up Dora's insecurity monster.

[michael28]

Off-topic: I've read philosophy paper/essay things which use the genderless pronouns 'ey', 'em' and 'eir'. I would use those because I find assigning a gender awkward and the singular 'they' is wrong, but I worry about looking like a loser. Finland is so progressive.

But singular they is NOT wrong. It has been used throughout modern English and nobody is confused when they see it.

The word "they" can be used to indicate uncertainty of gender, number or identity. It can also be used when the antecedent is known to be plural. At some point (probably right after denouncing split infinitives and terminal pronouns, both of which are perfectly acceptable) someone declared by fiat that the first usage was verboten.

They then went on to presumably read that "All men are created equal"  and decided that women are neither created nor equal, and therefore not worth mentioning at all. Sooner or later, women decided that that attitude was not to blithely be put up with.

You will notice that nowhere in the preceding two paragraphs do the words "he," "him," "his," "she," "her" or "hers" appear. But I am not forced to conjure ad hoc substitutes to make my point clear; singular they works perfectly well to achieve this. The goal of written communication should be to convey the relevant ideas. When following a "rule" makes that goal easier, it should be followed, but if following such a "rule" interferes with communication, it should be immediately abandoned without a second thought.

I'd like to have a language where you can say something, without a problem to keep the sex of the person mentioned out. In German it's a living hell to read a gender neutral report. "Liebe Bürger/in", "Sehr geehrte Studenten/innen" and so on and on.

Intersting though, it's widely common to say Polizist and Polizistin (policefolk ^^). But I hardly find the term Mörderin (murderess? female murder) in the news. The maximum is the term accused.

My guess for the age of the girl would be 13-14 years old.

[jacjyd]

The first time I read the comic I for some reason didn't absorb the last panel and only saw the text bubble about cleaning and though it was a mini alter Hannelore, wanting time to clean!

Ooh maybe Dora will come up to his place for some coffee/baked goods and she'll meet the daughter and the Dad will be all about to scold her and Dora will step in and handle it in some big sistery way!

[Tiogyr]

The first time I read the comic I for some reason didn't absorb the last panel and only saw the text bubble about cleaning and though it was a mini alter Hannelore, wanting time to clean!

Ooh maybe Dora will come up to his place for some coffee/baked goods and she'll meet the daughter and the Dad will be all about to scold her and Dora will step in and handle it in some big sistery way!

What is wrong with you? That would make Dora even creepier than people thought Jim was if she acted like that the first time she met his daughter.

[Carl-E]

Singular "they" is a particular bugaboo for me.  I've used it for years, usually in writings referring to a genderless student.  But recently when my father-in-law (retired English professor and department head of a big 10 university) saw me use it in a poece my wife had him proof, he threw a fit, thought I'd know better.  Pain in the but rewriting all that, and wound up using a few "he/she"s, which I loathe. 

Daughter's age?  Remember Jeph's size issues, you can't judge by height, especially compared with background appliances.  She doesn't seem that old, could be anywhere in the 9 - 13 range, I'd say.  We'll find out soon enough - seems we're going to get a full intro to Jim! 

[hannahsaurusrex]

I for one am suprised at all the support today; I love it, but it's eerie. I keep waiting for "HE HAS A KID?!?? KEeP THAT CrAZY BITCH AWAY!!!!"

As for the daughter (I'm hoping for the name Lucy) addition:
I don't really think he's going to introduce the two of them quite yet, and the possibility of staying over is now sorta eliminated.

I like this added factor, Jim immediately becomes more responsible which is both attractive and necessary to Dora right now. He's got things to take care of all of the time, which could be really great for her. Yes, she might and probably will get irrationally jealous at some point, but unlike Marten, Jim won't have time for her to act out.

Probably though, the flames of their love, like Jim's kitchen, will become extinguished.

[Schmorgluck]

Off-topic: I've read philosophy paper/essay things which use the genderless pronouns 'ey', 'em' and 'eir'. I would use those because I find assigning a gender awkward and the singular 'they' is wrong, but I worry about looking like a loser. Finland is so progressive.

But singular they is NOT wrong. It has been used throughout modern English and nobody is confused when they see it.

It's more complicated than that. It's actually a pretty recent grammatical construction, built for specific political reasons. (which makes it pretty par for the course compared to every grammatical construction ever).

The word "they" can be used to indicate uncertainty of gender, number or identity. It can also be used when the antecedent is known to be plural. At some point (probably right after denouncing split infinitives and terminal pronouns, both of which are perfectly acceptable) someone declared by fiat that the first usage was verboten.

As a French, I can tell you it's even more complicated in some languages. At least in English plural pronouns are neutral. It's not the case in French. And it brings out plenty of political questions. For example, canonically, by French grammar, a group of persons that includes three billions women and one man has to be refered using a "male" (or rather "masculine") variant of "they".
So at least English could invent singular "they". We're still uncertain about what to do in French.

They then went on to presumably read that "All men are created equal"  and decided that women are neither created nor equal, and therefore not worth mentioning at all. Sooner or later, women decided that that attitude was not to blithely be put up with.[/quoted]
It was based on many preexisting texts, some of which lead to the Constitution of Virginia, which greatly influenced La Fayette who, when he came back to France, drafted the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen.

And amidst French Revolution, some women, most famously Olympe de Gouges, called out about the gender bias in the wording, which was in no way unsignificant. Olympe claimed that "A woman has the right to mount the scaffold. She must possess equally the right to mount the speaker's platform." And she produced the [Declaration of the Rights of Woman and the Female Citizen/url]. She was very inconvenient to the Boys. She was decapitated for that.

[TinPenguin]

I'll concede on the singular 'they', but I'm not allowed to use it in exams - lose marks for error of conchord or something.

Use it anyway! Fight the system, man! Rebel against their oppressive linguistic regime! Marks must be sacrificed for the liberation of language from the obsolete vestiges of overfastidious Victorian pseudo-pedants!

[NotAwesomeAnymore]

Use it anyway! Fight the system, man! Rebel against their oppressive linguistic regime! Marks must be sacrificed for the liberation of language from the obsolete vestiges of overfastidious Victorian pseudo-pedants!

... Jeez.

[gprimr1]

I live by the singular "they" when not knowing or not desiring to share a person's gender.

[TinPenguin]

Use it anyway! Fight the system, man! Rebel against their oppressive linguistic regime! Marks must be sacrificed for the liberation of language from the obsolete vestiges of overfastidious Victorian pseudo-pedants!

... Jeez.

The crowd cheered uproariously!

[TheEvilDog]

Well I think that while Jim having a daughter paints him a better light, especially with him working all night in the bakery it would seem that he chooses to spend the day with his daughter.

That said, I dunno, I think it might cause problems down the line for Dora and her seemingly "What-About-Me?" attitude, we've seen it before where Dora kinda expects that people put her first. We've seen it during her first therapy session where she seemed a little annoyed that the therapist asked her about Sven rather than her. The real test is going to be when we see Jim putting his daughter before her and how she reacts to that.





Also, SPONTANEOUS METAL INTERLUDE!

[iduguphergrave]

Suddenly I have a feeling that we also inadvertently got a glimpse of Faye's childhood in the 4th panel.

[gangler]

Yeah, this happened to me a lot growing up. A whole lot of fires. After the first couple it wasn't even a big deal anymore. We all knew I could handle a fire so no one was really worried about it.

About six months ago my sister wakes me up from a nap panicking. Fire was blazing. She needed my help. "What do I do!" just a complete mess. I take a look at it, go through the cupboards and say "Well the fire's not spreading everywhere. We've got it contained so now we can just wait for it to burn itself out."


I think she was surprised by that but I was able to calm her down so that helped. I really should buy some freaking baking soda or something though. I really like that memory. Like my dad always says "The bigger they get, the cuter they ain't", and she's getting old enough that she's not really dependent on me for much anymore. Pretty sure we've only got so many moments like that left.

As a whole the kid in the kitchen brought back a whole slew of very fond memories for me. She's very cute, and the look on her face is priceless. Probably shouldn't try and hide this stuff though. Futile to try, especially if she's emptied that fire extinguisher. Nothing more suspicious than a suddenly depleted supply of flame retardant.

[Tiogyr]

Suddenly I have a feeling that we also inadvertently got a glimpse of Faye's childhood in the 4th panel.

If Jim commits suicide after seeing the fire damage you get the No-Prize!

[pwhodges]

Use it anyway! Fight the system, man! Rebel against their oppressive linguistic regime! Marks must be sacrificed for the liberation of language from the obsolete vestiges of overfastidious Victorian pseudo-pedants!

I am amused that almost the exact same discussion is happening simultaneously on an English forum devoted to pipe organs!  For example:

I think you probably lose the argument once you bring split infinitives to the table. [...] the "rule" was invented by classicists: as it is impossible to split the one-word infinitive in Latin it should be made impossible by diktat in English. Any such "invented" rules are destined to fail. Those of us privileged to have been made aware of the rule can nod or shake our heads wisely as some no-nothing makes yet another transgression.

[Carl-E]

...Probably shouldn't try and hide this stuff though. Futile to try, especially if she's emptied that fire extinguisher. Nothing more suspicious than a suddenly depleted supply of flame retardant.

If Jim lives in an apartment, that big ol' fire extinguisher may well have come from the hallway.  She replaces it, and at the next inspection the owner's served with a violation.  And Daddy never knows...

[Stephen]

I for one am suprised at all the support today; I love it, but it's eerie. I keep waiting for "HE HAS A KID?!?? KEeP THAT CrAZY BITCH AWAY!!!!"

As for the daughter (I'm hoping for the name Lucy) addition:
I don't really think he's going to introduce the two of them quite yet, and the possibility of staying over is now sorta eliminated.

I like this added factor, Jim immediately becomes more responsible which is both attractive and necessary to Dora right now. He's got things to take care of all of the time, which could be really great for her. Yes, she might and probably will get irrationally jealous at some point, but unlike Marten, Jim won't have time for her to act out.

Probably though, the flames of their love, like Jim's kitchen, will become extinguished.

Whoa! Love? It's just one date. It's not even clear to the characters how attracted they are to each other right now. As for Jim not having time for her to act out because he is too busy... that is not really a good thing in any stretch. It makes him more likely to tell her to shut the **** up and grow up (not a comment on how mature I think she is but the most likely scenario based on my experience with most people who are older or think they are more mature). I agree that in the long term I don't think they are going to work out and although I am still in the Marten/Dora camp I don't see them getting back together. I'll just get back onto topic. When someone is too busy to entertain an argument that person either ends up being a very dominating person (which Dora does not need) or seems neglectful towards the person trying to argue. I think this date will just kind of sputter out.

[Akima]

It's actually a pretty recent grammatical construction, built for specific political reasons.

That is simply false. The singular they was used by Chaucer in the 15th century, and has featured regularly in English literature ever since. Campaigns for gender-neutral writing might be relatively recent, but the grammatical construction is older than modern English.

[TheEvilDog]

Poll Results;

Dora...does not work well for others.  5 (8.2%)
Good to see Dora has alternate plans for the future.  9 (14.8%)
Dora and Jim, the next Bonnie and Clyde.  12 (19.7%)
Pintsize would be the Tommy Gun. Would you want to deal with him?  7 (11.5%)
We didn't see anything, we don't know anything. We ain't telling you nothing copper!  10 (16.4%)
Plan A. Walk into bank. Steal Money. Escape. Spend Money.  6 (9.8%)
Plan B. Blame it all on Jim.  12 (19.7%)

Total votes - 61

Wow, first tied poll I've ever seen on here.

Also, bye Hail Satan tag, it was good while it lasted 

[themacnut]

Ooh Jim's got a kid. Not too surprising considering his age and the fact that he was married. But that means Dora may get to be [scary laugh]THE EVIL STEPMOTHER[/scarylaugh].

Let's see if she realizes the implications herself and decides to bail.

[Tova]

Ooh Jim's got a kid. Not too surprising considering his age and the fact that he was married. But that means Dora may get to be [scary laugh]THE EVIL STEPMOTHER[/scarylaugh].

Let's see if she realizes the implications herself and decides to bail.

I'd be kinda surprised if Dora were thinking quite that far ahead...

[jwhouk]

I'm betting Jim's daughter is a teenager (13 years old, but still a teen).

And yes, I'm betting that interactions between her and Dora will bring back way too many reminders of how she was as a teen.

Especially when Jim reveals that his 15-year-old son is staying with his ex-wife.

[Jerein]

The girl's name starts with an M, callin' it.

[Sorflakne]

Sorry, Jim's daughter, but char and soot is damn near impossible to clean from house paint without destroying it.

[Tova]

As unlikely as it is that she will be able to hide the evidence in time, I'd say that Jim will be so relieved that she is still alive and the house is still standing that she won't be in too much trouble.

[jwhouk]

It'll be too much of a reminder of the time that "giant blender thingy" went up in flames.

[Kugai]

I guess the cooking talent skipped a generation  

[akronnick]

Cooking and baking are two completely different skill sets.

[St.Clair]

Ah, kids t(w)eens.

[Cartilage Head]

I hate to say it, but it is a sad day when QC goes for domestic humor. This strip hits a little too close to newspaper comic territory.

[Tova]

I hate to say it, but it is a sad day when QC goes for domestic humor. This strip hits a little too close to newspaper comic territory.

That's a little harsh.

[Cartilage Head]

Jeph is an awesome guy, but I feel like I should respectfully state my opinion as a fan. If he told me that he had a problem, I would immediately stop, since these are his forums after all.

[wrwight]

It's actually a pretty recent grammatical construction, built for specific political reasons.

That is simply false. The singular they was used by Chaucer in the 15th century, and has featured regularly in English literature ever since. Campaigns for gender-neutral writing might be relatively recent, but the grammatical construction is older than modern English.

I think you misread. I read that (and prior to reading, I understood it to be the same) as the removal of the singular "they" being a recent construction. I'm definitely of the opinion it should still be used. It makes things simpler, and it's already very well used and accepted in the vernacular.

Also, on topic. Still loving this story arc. I'm actually kind of hoping Jim (and family) becomes at least a long running character, no matter what happens with Dora.

[jacjyd]

The first time I read the comic I for some reason didn't absorb the last panel and only saw the text bubble about cleaning and though it was a mini alter Hannelore, wanting time to clean!

Ooh maybe Dora will come up to his place for some coffee/baked goods and she'll meet the daughter and the Dad will be all about to scold her and Dora will step in and handle it in some big sistery way!

What is wrong with you? That would make Dora even creepier than people thought Jim was if she acted like that the first time she met his daughter.

I guess I wouldn't find it creepy. (But I know I'm weird. ) I mean it can't be any weirder than her screaming that she loves little butch lesbians. I've always felt she's like a sister, mostly a big sister to the other employees of CoD. 

[cuzsis]

We also notice your split infinitive ; after all, even Fowler said that rule was a waste of space.

And it didn't make the sentence harder to understand at all, did it?

There is also a terminal pronoun, do you even notice it?

 Oh man, I didn't even know it was sick...

 *runs and hides*

[cat_rant]

Ok ok I admit I may have been wrong about Jim. I am infact doing a bit of a 180 turn on it. I like older funny dad Jim. I'll be right back with my plate of humble pie.