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Old Momo-tan. Her old chassis is adorable!

14 (23%)

New chassis! She could become a regular cast member!

26 (42.6%)

She needs some more upgrades.

1 (1.6%)

New chassis - if only to tick off Pintsize

14 (23%)

MOAR TOASTERRRRR!!!

2 (3.3%)

Toaster - only because we like waffles.

4 (6.6%)

Total Members Voted: 56

[Akima]

All I can conceive of is a 'chinese wall' type AI -- good enough to fool us, but the computer has no 'soul' / 'spark' / 'ghost' / what-have-you.  Just enough of programmed responses to social stimuli to fool humans and even other AI's.

The very existence of a "soul" is highly speculative. Historically the possession of a soul, or at least an equal soul to that possessed by the privileged observer, frequently has been denied by humans to other humans of the wrong race, wrong religion, or wrong gender for centuries, and this continues to this day. Attitudes regarding non-human sentients as property are pretty much identical to those of a white plantation owner toward his slaves in the 18th century, or many men towards their wifes today, and supported by much the same argument: "We are special because we are special; they are not special because they're not."

[Kwark]

Charlotte, the manager said no more circuit bending your sensors with acid !

[St.Clair]

"I like life
Life likes me
Life and I fairly fully agree..."

[Sorflakne]

Gonna have to say that Mari should keep the pigtails.  They somehow work for her.

[Tova]

Before I'd even read the text of the fourth panel, I thought half-jokingly "Uh oh, she's gonna break into song in a second." It was still an amusing surprise when she did, though.

You can tell that it's unusual for there to be such a focus in the story on the anthro-pcs ... they have been in the comic since #1, yet now we're verging on #2000, a conversation about the ethics and morality of anthro-pcs is breaking out*.

I don't know if we can really answer the question "do androids dream of electric sheep," but I think that the only reasonable way to act is that, if they appear sentient convincingly enough to pass the Turing test, then we should treat them as sentient. I don't see how any argument about whether they have a "soul" or whatever should have anything to do with it. And my impression is that, in the QC universe, anthro-pcs are capable of happiness and suffering, and so deserve to be treated accordingly.

* OK now I've said that, someone will tell me that this is not the first time at all. Oh well.

[Is it cold in here?]

I can't remember anything as on-point as the current discussion, but there was once a thread about the social, legal, and ethical status of AnthroPCs.

EDIT: Spider Robinson said that in his view anyone who says "Excuse me" is human.

[Skewbrow]

Surely a sentient robot might easily gain some rights: e.g. a minimum salary, a bank account, copyright to its creations,...

But in The Bicentennial Man the robot realized in the end that to be accepted as a human, he must be prepared to `die'. I think that the good Dr Asimov caught something essential there. I mean, if I were in a jury deciding whether a sentience deserves to be called a human being...

[Loki]

This is the toaster that makes bread fun.  

I hope it hasn't been posted before.

Edit:

in the end that to be accepted as a human, he must be prepared to `die'.

Have you happened to read Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality by any chance? (Warning: TVTropes link).

Harry said, "I thought of my absolute rejection of death as the natural order."

I must say I don't get the notion that one would need to accept death in order to live, either. Care to explain?

[gangler]

Surely a sentient robot might easily gain some rights: e.g. a minimum salary, a bank account, copyright to its creations,...

But in The Bicentennial Man the robot realized in the end that to be accepted as a human, he must be prepared to `die'. I think that the good Dr Asimov caught something essential there. I mean, if I were in a jury deciding whether a sentience deserves to be called a human being...

Megaman ZX. Humans and reploids finally reach a truce. The terms of agreement were that the humans receive cybernetic upgrades allowing them to function on a similar level to the reploids, whereas the reploids took on mortality instituting something similar to a biological clock making their lifespan finite.

I know it's not the greatest work of science fiction from a literary standpoint that I could be citing, but it seems relevant.

Personally I think human is great, but if I could be something better I would.

[Skewbrow]

I must say I don't get the notion that one would need to accept death in order to live, either. Care to explain?

That was not the point. The point was that if you are an immortal sentience I shall not treat you as a human being. I may respect you and your acts and creations in many other ways, but I will not think of you as a fellow human being.

[Boradis]

You left out the et al.

Also covered by physics.

Look, I'm not trying to be a naysayer or a dick, but reaching escape velocity is freakin' hard and requires a LOT of power. Fuels that combine liquid oxygen with liquid hydrogen or kerosene are the best/safest means of achieving these speeds and you still need a skyscraper's worth to go anywhere. The rubber-burning rockets of Virgin Galactic/Scaled Composites are fine for suborbital joyrides but that's it.

My point is that it's not a simple lack of desire on the part of the U.S. or the Russians which has slowed space exploration to a crawl, it's the propulsion hurdle of getting up to 11.2 km/sec without exploding or irradiating the launch site.

Personally, I can't quite buy into the whole 'strong AI' concept, no matter what.  All I can conceive of is a 'chinese wall' type AI -- good enough to fool us, but the computer has no 'soul' / 'spark' / 'ghost' / what-have-you.

I think it's fair to acknowledge though that your requirement for the "reality" of these proposed beings is cultural, religious or superstitious. I for one don't believe anyone or anything has a "soul" in the sense that you mean, and yet I believe that you are completely real.

Yet those who follow animistic religions such as Japan's Shinto believe everything has a soul -- you, me, pets, furniture, rocks, the planet, atoms, the galaxy, you name it. I suspect that may be why their culture has such a fondness for robots. Looked at that way, an intelligent device that looks and acts like a human being is a human being.

[Arancaytar]

This is a sentient, intelligent being we're talking about here, and you think it's appropriate to snuff her out of existence because... she doesn't take her job seriously?

Robots arent sentient, though. Jephs robots act like no reallife robot would act. Computers are mathematical machines, if they "show feelings" then its because an algorithm tells them to, not because there is the slightest hint of feeling in the machine. Just as an example, reallife robots do not get bored. Ever. They compute pi to the ten power n number of digits just fine, without ever wondering why they're doing it.

If an artificial intelligence gains the capacity for introspection, it also gains the capacity for boredom (which is the realization you could be doing something better with your time). Of course it would only act sad because its brain tells it to do that when it recognizes a situation that would make a human in their place sad, but that's pretty much what humans do as well.

Anyway, if Charlotte's job is to help potential customers see robots as fun pals to hang out with rather than machines or a menace, then there is no possible way she could do that job more effectively.

[cesariojpn]

EDIT: Spider Robinson said that in his view anyone who says "Excuse me" is human.

Excuse me, thats bullshit.

So, does that make me a spiteful human being?

Anyway, if Charlotte's job is to help potential customers see robots as fun pals to hang out with rather than machines or a menace, then there is no possible way she could do that job more effectively.

http://youtu.be/j6eFNRKEROw?t=1m

[idontunderstand]

We know that Pintsize wants to play or be an instrument, so AnthroPC bands are imaginable.

*Starts imagining* The more I think of it, the more it seems like a GREAT idea.  and I'm imagining the band would something like Battles. But I guess I'm derailing from the current discussion. Sorry everybody, I'll leave right about now.

[MightionNY]

Oh lord... the "empty" Momo body just makes me sad.

[Blackjoker]

Odd, one would think that Pintsize would have given her the best advice for protection from porn browsing related problems given that he seems to live in it.

[WAYF]

Having a life-size anthro-PC could be really really interesting... I hope Marigold fixes those registry files and decides to keep the new chassis.

[Mark7]

I notice that the chassis Momo wanted to try out has smoother skin than the ones in the earlier strips and the salesgirl's (higher priced model?)

[Method of Madness]

A hilarious comic #2000...I'd say that's a good birthday present.

That being said, the chassis is remarkably similar to 1658, especially if she can change clothes.

[Mr. Doctor]

"That's the last time I look up thethy(?) Yaoi Files for you"

Just out of curiosity... What's the word I missed?

Also, I wonder why the fingers and arms don't show any "lines", I guess this version is a bit more expensive.

[cesariojpn]

Odd, one would think that Pintsize would have given her the best advice for protection from porn browsing related problems given that he seems to live in it.

Odd that you'd think a AnthroPC that loves to shock people with pics of Goatse would even impart such advice.

[gangler]

"That's the last time I look up thethy(?) Yaoi Files for you"

Sexy?

[Mr_Rose]

"That's the last time I look up thethy(?) Yaoi Files for you"

Just out of curiosity... What's the word I missed?

Also, I wonder why the fingers and arms don't show any "lines", I guess this version is a bit more expensive.

I believe the phrase is meant to be “sexy yaoi sites” but I'm interpolating here.

[St.Clair]

and best part, Momo can keep her old chassis (which probably doesn't have a lot of resale value anymore) around as a cute* accessory.

*Sometimes incapacitatingly so.  Dora's reaction is apparently not uncommon.

[doekman]

To celebrate 2000 episodes of QC, hereby the top 20 of nr. of appearances of characters:

1.   Faye (1137)
2.   Marten (1114)
3.   Dora (839)
4.   Hannelore (443)
5.   Pintsize (290)
6.   Steve (174)
7.   Sven (160)
8.   Raven (157)
9.   Angus (137)
10.   Marigold (134)
11.   Tai (129)
12.   Penelope (124)
13.   [Guest Comic] (82)
14.   Winslow (67)
15.   Ellen (63)
16.   Momo (46)
17.   Veronica Reed (46)
18.   Wil (41)
19.   Cosette (34)
20.   (Yelling Bird) (31)

[nonethousand]

To celebrate 2000 episodes of QC, hereby the top 20 of nr. of appearances of characters:

1.   Faye (1137)
2.   Marten (1114)
3.   Dora (839)
4.   Hannelore (443)
5.   Pintsize (290)
6.   Steve (174)
7.   Sven (160)
8.   Raven (157)
9.   Angus (137)
10.   Marigold (134)
11.   Tai (129)
12.   Penelope (124)
13.   [Guest Comic] (82)
14.   Winslow (67)
15.   Ellen (63)
16.   Momo (46)
17.   Veronica Reed (46)
18.   Wil (41)
19.   Cosette (34)
20.   (Yelling Bird) (31)

humm... the wiki disagrees with you: http://questionablecontent.wikia.com/wiki/Count_of_character_appearances

[pwhodges]

There are bound to be some disagreements, because, for instance, it is not entirely clear when Angus first appeared.  Also whether voices off are counted or not, and stuff like that.

[Akima]

I notice that the chassis Momo wanted to try out has smoother skin than the ones in the earlier strips and the salesgirl's (higher priced model?)

It is rather a nice touch that the hair-colour on Momo's trial body became brighter and more saturated as she brought it to life.

But registry files? Momo has a registry?   Robots will never be taken seriously as sentient beings if they're running some flavour of Windows with an opaque single point of failure like that. Real operating systems store their configuration in plain text files... 

[akronnick]

Unlike, say, a system that only runs on hardware that will be permanantly damaged or destroyed if deprive of one specific chemical element for more than a few seconds?

[pwhodges]

Real operating systems store their configuration in plain text files... 

I get so fed up with this old chestnut.  The only difference between a binary file and a text file is how easily a human can read it at a superficial level.  Either may be designed with a simple or complex structure, and I assure you that I have had to poke around the internals of each just as much in real life (which in this regard extends back more than 40 years).  In the last ten years I have only had two totally unexplained server crashes - one of OpenBSD 3.6 and one of Windows 2000 Server (I don't run any Linux servers*) - and at that frequency, I can't be sure that they were not caused by hardware issues (the OpenBSD machine has been running in the same hardware for six years since then, but the Windows machine concerned was replaced several years ago).


* I have a Linux music machine at home, though, and a Red Hat support qualification

[pwhodges]

Alternate response:

Real operating systems store their configuration in plain text files... 

I find speciesism in operating systems almost as annoying as you find racism in humans...

(I'm not saying that it is as harmful, but the underlying "logic" is pretty much the same, actually.)

[DSL]

You left out the et al.

Also covered by physics.

Look, I'm not trying to be a naysayer or a dick, ...

Given that credible experts have espoused attitudes similar to yours, with numbers to back them up, toward early aircraft, early telecommunications, alternative energy et al. (there's that damn et. al. again), I'll keep my optimism, thanks.

[iduguphergrave]

"That's the last time I look up thethy(?) Yaoi Files for you"

Just out of curiosity... What's the word I missed?

I thought it was "sketchy." I had to read it a couple times, too lol.

And to the person who thought "empty" Momo looked sad, that's funny because I read this with my friend and he said the same thing  (it is a little unsettling)

[Border Reiver]

Unlike, say, a system that only runs on hardware that will be permanantly damaged or destroyed if deprive of one specific chemical element for more than a few seconds?

I believe that particular model though also has the self-repair function that can make it fairly resilient.

[mike837go]

And to the person who thought "empty" Momo looked sad, that's funny because I read this with my friend and he said the same thing   (it is a little unsettling)

I found it a whole lot unsettling. Transfering software to new hardware is a risky process to begin with. When the process fails (as with this example) you have to back off, repair the fault and try again.

With Momo's personality stuck "somewhere in-between" it is more than just sad.

[HiFranc]

And to the person who thought "empty" Momo looked sad, that's funny because I read this with my friend and he said the same thing  (it is a little unsettling)

I found it a whole lot unsettling. Transfering software to new hardware is a risky process to begin with. When the process fails (as with this example) you have to back off, repair the fault and try again.

With Moma's personality stuck "somewhere in-between" it is more than just sad.

To me it looks like she developed the symptoms of robot menningitis as she transferred.  She already had the infection but her imune system was weakened as she transferred body.

[Mr. Doctor]

I believe the phrase is meant to be “sexy yaoi sites” but I'm interpolating here.

Yeah, sexy yaoi sites seems to be the case

[doekman]

There are bound to be some disagreements, because, for instance, it is not entirely clear when Angus first appeared.  Also whether voices off are counted or not, and stuff like that.

Doekman's figures being mostly larger (sometimes by quite a lot), I'm going to guess that they include guest comics, or possibly spoken references.

I did include some guest appearance references (but haven't been strict on them), and probably I also made some input-errors. I decided with episode 2000 to stop recording data, since I've heard Jeph is working on some archive with also complete transcribed text.

The thing: I actually never thought Faye would be number one in number of appearances....

[sluthy]

Aha! Momo has just upgraded to become... Fart-chan!

[Arancaytar]

So... this is definitely going to happen then?

Edit: I just noticed that not only is the chassis nearly indistinguishable from a real human (if you look closely you can see faint lines at the elbows), but so is the voice. That means it is theoretically possible for a robot to pass as a human with little difficulty.

In other words; so... this is definitely going to happen as well?

[akronnick]

Unlike, say, a system that only runs on hardware that will be permanantly damaged or destroyed if deprive of one specific chemical element for more than a few seconds?

I believe that particular model though also has the self-repair function that can make it fairly resilient.

But once you shut it off it will never restart.

[Carl-E]

I believe the phrase is meant to be “sexy yaoi sites” but I'm interpolating here.

Yeah, sexy yaoi sites seems to be the case

I'm with iduguphergrave on this one - I'm pretty sure it's "sketchy  yaoi sites". 

Sketchy as in unreliable, like the title, which has a .cx (christmas island) domain extension...

[jwhouk]

Unlike, say, a system that only runs on hardware that will be permanantly damaged or destroyed if deprive of one specific chemical element for more than a few seconds?

Like 15 seconds, perhaps?

[stoutfiles]

Charlotte could be the singer for the band! Has anyone already said that? Oh gosh I can't be arsed to go back and check! What do I do? 

CURSE IT ALL I POST ANYWAY

CHARLOTTE COULD BE SINGER FOR DEATHMOLE!

Momo wants to play too! So she downloads a software package that makes her perfect at playing music!  She invites some robot friends to join.  Now all the band members have been replaced by robots who play perfectly.  Awesome?

Speaking of which, why do the cast never reference the amazing robotic bands of the future, of which there must be many.  They can do everything better than us if they want, so why wouldn't they want super stardom?  Although, sometimes I think Sigur Ros is a robot band.

[TinPenguin]

They can do everything better than us if they want,

No they can't.

[Mark7]

The QCVerse isn't in the future. It's now but with a different tech history.

[HiFranc]

So... this is definitely going to happen then?

I think the first two panels of this more likely.

Personally, I think that part of the reason that Momo fantasises about being with Sven is because she doesn't have the confidence who personality to make it a reality.

[Mark7]

You screwed the link up.

Do it again   

[HiFranc]

Corrected.

[stoutfiles]

They can do everything better than us if they want,

No they can't.

How so?  Physically there's no question, they can be placed in a body that's designed for any task.  Mentally, they would compute problems like a computer, efficiently and without distractions.  They never die, only getting more proficient as hardware and software improves.  Whatever you do, a robot could do it better.  It'd be like Neo from the Matrix..."I know Kung Fu!".  Instantly they are trained at whatever took you years to perfect.  

Have we discussed non-sentient robots yet?  People poo-poo the idea of enslaving sentient robots, which is arguable I admit.  However, in a world where we have sentient robots, that means the technology is there for non-sentient ones to do all my chores for me.  On the flip side, they would also be working for corporations, efficiently working with no complaints, no salary, no insurance, 24/7.