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Call back right away and apologize.

Run to her apartment and apologize.

Wait until tomorrow, and get arrested at the airport trying to apologize at the gate.

Call/go over and ask for an explanation.

Decide it's a lost cause, toast a waffle or two, and try to move on.

[Dr. ROFLPWN]

...Hodges why you always gotta follow my terrible posts with beautiful well-thought out ones D:

Seriously, though, thank you, and right on.

[pwhodges]

I'm starting to think that the concept of "doormat" is as toxic as "nice guy".

[Dr. ROFLPWN]

I think you would be spot-on in that analysis. 

[themacnut]

I'm starting to think that the concept of "doormat" is as toxic as "nice guy".

In many people's minds, they are the same thing, and equally bad. Especially for the person who thinks of themselves in those terms.

[HodorBaggins]

But the point is that none of that makes his behavior okay, he acted like a fucking jackass.

To say that it is all on her, . . . or to call her a "bitch" is when we take a nice detour into open sexism and misogyny!

I don't see how these two statements can coexist in the same brain?  If Marten is a "fucking jackass" for his actions, how is Padma not a "fucking bitch" for hers?

[truestatic]

To say that it is all on her, and to extrapolate that it is something "women do" and to go on about how "women play games" or to call her a "bitch" is when we take a nice detour into open sexism and misogyny!

Also, some of you may not know this, but there is such a thing as male privilege! It's not really a cool thing and it's even less cool to enforce it!

I do think it's mostly on her.  I don't think it's a thing that 'women do.'  I think that both men and women are perfectly capable of 'playing games.'  I know that gendered insults are a bad thing, I try to avoid them.  I know that male privilege is also a thing.  That's not something I'm trying to promote.  I don't know if any of this was addressed at me, but if it was, I'm really sorry, the last thing I want to do is offend the members of this community.  I understand that this is a very sensitive subject and typically try to avoid discussing it in any light except with those people I know and trust most.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

I'd just like to comment that I don't think Padma is a "fucking bitch" for getting scared of becoming too emotionally involved and thus running away. I do think it's emotionally immature when people behave like that (and many people of both sexes do). I only hold the opinion that Marten's choices and actions in handling the situation are reasonable and justified and will ultimately make his life better and happier rather than more miserable.

[Dr. ROFLPWN]

But the point is that none of that makes his behavior okay, he acted like a fucking jackass.

To say that it is all on her, . . . or to call her a "bitch" is when we take a nice detour into open sexism and misogyny!

I don't see how these two statements can coexist in the same brain?  If Marten is a "fucking jackass" for his actions, how is Padma not a "fucking bitch" for hers?

1.) Padma stopped her bad behavior when she called Marten up and wanted to see him

2.) Padma is not a male, and does not benefit from male privilege

3.) "Jackass" is not a gendered insult being used to subjugate and belittle an entire social group

[HodorBaggins]

I'd just like to comment that I don't think Padma is a "fucking bitch" for getting scared of becoming too emotionally involved and thus running away. I do think it's emotionally immature when people behave like that (and many people of both sexes do). I only hold the opinion that Marten's choices and actions in handling the situation are reasonable and justified and will ultimately make his life better and happier rather than more miserable.

Likewise, I don't think Padma is a fucking bitch, I just don't see how you can name-call on Marten for his mistakes, and then immediately afterwards say doing the same thing to Padma is sexist.

I think they both handled the situation poorly, both made mistakes, to the detriment of both people.

[Dust]

I'm starting to think that the concept of "doormat" is as toxic as "nice guy".

In many people's minds, they are the same thing, and equally bad. Especially for the person who thinks of themselves in those terms.

Agreed.

[Vista]

So look.  I saw the direction this was headed when I read accusations of sexism, and I really hate when the sexist label is applied readily/liberally.  (Using the term when it isn't actually applicable defeats its importance and destroys the potential to teach, and I think it's a very important subject.)

So I decided to reread the entire thread and count some stuff.

In this thread there have been 3 legitimately sexist comments and 6 pseudo-generalizations about either a small subsection of the female population ("women who play games" or "some women who" by men) or even the entire population (by women).  Two of the sexist comments are sexist because they refer use the term "bitch" without due consideration (i.e., the writers don't seem to understand that the language is stronger than an equivalent "bastard").

There have also been 8 groundless accusations of sexism or thread-wide sexism (generally by long-time forum members, strangely).  By groundless I mean that while the 3 legitimately sexist comments should be called what they are, such weren't the targets of the majority of the criticism, and looking at the numbers the thread in general has been pretty darn sensitive.

Then, starting on page 7 there's this sudden argument about who's being sexist.  Which is weird, because aside from one dude on the second page and the dude that responded to Jeph, there haven't been any directly sexist comments (unless they've been deleted and never quoted).

Instead, there have been stories about women in specific male posters' lives, always couched in very specific terms that avoid full generalizations.  To deride such as sexism is both 1.) pointless, 2.) actually, worse than pointless, and 3.) assuming too much.

If you want to argue against people posting parallel anecdotes because combined they seem to indicate a critical generalization...that seems silly.

[snubnose]

Things to bear in mind to help keep this place a decent one to visit.

(1) Blame culture.
[...]
(2) Projection
[...]
(3) Bigotry
[...]

Thanks for this posting. I feel thats exactly what I should have posted instead of my grunting before (now deleted).

1.) Padma stopped her bad behavior when she called Marten up and wanted to see him

Not at all. As others have pointed out long before your posting - she now leaves earlier than planned before. Thus she actually only continued what she started.

[Wagimawr]

Do we actually know that Padma is leaving sooner than she had initially planned on (after agreeing to stay a little longer for her and Marten), or have there been enough time skips that it's actually the appointed time for her to leave anyway?

See today's strip.  When Marten tells Faye Padma left, Faye says "I thought she was stickin' around a while longer." and Marten replies "Apparently not." 

Just did! Lesson #1: READ THE FUCKING STRIP, MORON. My bad.

[truestatic]

Just did! Lesson #1: READ THE FUCKING STRIP, MORON. My bad.

It happens to the best of us.  

[Akima]

From a purely punchline point of view, I think Faye's line in the last panel should simply have been "NO!"

[NotAwesomeAnymore]

There is no way of looking at Faye's pose in panel 3 that makes sense to me, and I'm not sure why.

[Tova]

It has occurred to me that, amidst the caterwauling, blaming and various accusations flying about, that we're missing something important. It was something someone said - I forget who, sorry - and it wasn't that we're at the restaurant at the end of the universe, and would we like a drink before dinner.*

Rather, it was the obvious point that we really don't know what's going on with Padma. No one seems to have questioned it, and whether people think she's too scared to do the right thing on one extreme, or the bitch from hell on the other, the common factor is that those people have just assumed what has happened at the other end. And we really just do not know.

So I went back to this comic - and I do apologise if someone has already brought this up. The forums have been kind of like that recently. I can't keep it all in my head.

http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2091

The assumption seems to have been that the thought processes went something like this:

* Padma sighs because she is getting closer to Marten than she expected
* Padma makes a remark about it, but Marten reacts flippantly
* Padma is disturbed about the remark but doesn't press the point

And then as a result, she stops calling him etc etc. And it doesn't really make sense, except some of us just assume that therefore Padma must be a horrible person to do this to Marten.

But honestly, it just doesn't make sense to me at all.

We're missing something important. Oblivious, in fact. Just like the comic title.

So I'm going to throw a different interpretation onto the comic just to see what happens. It's almost certainly wrong. But what the hell. I've just had beer and pizza - it stimulates the creative juices.

Before that comic, something happened to Padma that we don't know about. I don't know what. Maybe it was her parents calling and saying they would be there tomorrow to make sure she gets back home on time like she was supposed to. Let's just go with that, because I'm really just guessing on top of supposition at this point.

So whatever it was, she goes through the night wondering how she can tell him that she really won't be able to see him again. This is where it gets hazy, because why wouldn't she be able to tell him? That's why I think I'm not quite right - that instead, it's something that she just can't share with him for some reason. God knows what.

So let's get back to the comic. She's thinking that this is the last night and sighs.

Marten: Something wrong?
Padma: (can't tell him) why couldn't I have met you a year ago?
Marten: jokey reply - doesn't make her feel better, but of course he is oblivious to what is going on in her head.
Padma: (has a dismayed expression - not directly because of what Marten has said, but rather because of her internal conflict).

Then the next day of course she can't be with him for whatever that reason was. And can't until the very last night.

Sorry, I'm just "thinking out loud", and normally those kinds of half-formed thoughts wouldn't make it all the way onto the forum, but I hope at the very least it provokes a new line of conversation.

Whatever the answer is, I suspect the story has one last surprise in store for us.

Because for me, it still doesn't quite add up.

* If you're not a Douglas Adams fan, I do apologize for that reference.
http://www.otostopcu.org/yazi/h2g2/b2c15.php

[truestatic]

It is an interesting line of thought Tova, and I had considered that we really didn't know what was up with her, which I realize is probably a very deliberate thing on the writer's part.  I came to the conclusion that, whatever it was that was going on with her... she probably coulda called.  I don't know, I realize I'm still not deviating from the previous conversation we've been on about, about blame Marten, blame Padma.  I would very much like to KNOW what's going on with her, but... I don't know.  We'll see.  I can't say I'd be surprised if we never learned.  If last strip was the last we'll ever hear from her.  Leaving what exactly happened to her as a big question mark forces us to think about it for ourselves and come to our own judgements, just like Marten has to, and I think it takes us... well, if the last few pages tell us anything, it takes us interesting, contentious places.  If this is indeed the end of the arc, I can't complain.  It's a thought provoking, if not particularly satisfying ending.

[snubnose]

From a purely punchline point of view, I think Faye's line in the last panel should simply have been "NO!"

Not actually very punchy.

It could be:

- NO, I wont say that.
- NO, you are not an a**h***

Thus, having double meaning, it would have been awful as a "punchline".

[Tova]

I came to the conclusion that, whatever it was that was going on with her... she probably coulda called.

I know, right? So why didn't she? We may never know the answer, but I think it's the key to the whole shenanigans.

Whatever it was, I don't think it's callousness. That doesn't seem Jeph's style.

[ilikefishfood]

Now that we know she's actually decided to leave earlier than she had intended according to her amended plan, I have just lost more of my sympathy for Padma.    "Hey, I decided you aren't worth sticking around for after all, wanna get together tonight?"

... perhaps she changed her plans again after Marten shot her down.

She started the call by telling him she wasn't staying.  Or are you suggesting his rejection might have somehow convinced her to stay in town?   

Yup, I'm wrong.

Not necessarily.  

She may've taken Marten's joking response to her attempt to have a serious conversation ("Why couldn't I have met you a year ago") as being somewhat shot down.  She moped about it for a week, then tried again to let him know she was feeling blue and he still didn't react so to speak.  This too from her perspective could've been viewed as being shot down.  After that she might've just figured she'd leave earlier.  

Then of course, there's Tova's most interesting observation.  Maybe she realized she did have to leaver earlier, and was trying to tell him that last time they were in bed together.   Buuuut they were totally on different wave lengths and it was all downhill from there.

Oh...and I feel really bad that he didn't call her back.  They could've at least talked on the phone and sorted out some stuff  

[pwhodges]

So why didn't she? We may never know the answer, but I think it's the key to the whole shenanigans.

Whatever it was, I don't think it's callousness. That doesn't seem Jeph's style.

Have you never put off doing something because of the pain it will cause (to yourself even, not necessarily others), even though putting it off will cause more pain later?  I know I have.  So how about this:

Padma wanted to delay going; when she tried to arrange it, her family put pressure on her (and how they can!) not to change her plans (possibly even before their last night together, which is why she was so conflicted); she couldn't bear to tell Marten, and so avoided him until there was no further option.  This avoidance was sad, though understandable in a flawed world; Marten's reaction was equally unfortunate, but somewhat understandable.  I have sympathy with them both, but also would like to knock their heads together...

[Overkillengine]

Congrats Jeph, you wrote Marten brilliantly. I'd be tired of being fucked around too if I were him.

I'm with Napoleon on this. Marten got well and truly yanked around by Padma over the past week or so (and not in the fun way), 'bout time he did some yanking of his own. Why did you do that Marten? Because you're most likely PISSED at the way Padma's been treating you lately, that's why. Bravo for showing some spine.

Yowch, Marten.

I'm all for a person standing up for themselves; but just telling her that you are busy and blowing her off like this isn't constructive unless the person already possessed the amount of personal insight/reflection needed to avoid having pulled the week of silence in the first place.

[DannicaJ]

I just joined the forum (after a long time lurking) due to the recent arc.

Marten acted like an asshole. Let's not forget this. Instead of confrontation, which he is terrible at, he chose to not make it cut any deeper, and f$#@ Padma and what she feels. I can understand that. Still a terrible thing to do. But it's as close to being manly as he's ever been, so I guess I can justify that with him being "just a dude", and therefor sometimes inexplicably a dick (*giggity*).

On the other hand, he has a solid reason. A girl that he thought was in a good relationship with, for seemingly no reason, gave him the cold shoulder and decided to move away faster, while offering no explanation. Being left to hang like that is a pain that most people (of both sexes) know, and hate. If he met her, he would either lash out, which Marten seems incapable of, or try and make nice only to have it hurt more later. So being so non-confrontational, it really makes sense for him as a person to do this.

Padma reacted badly to going away, and decided to cut it off cleanly. A logical reaction for an emotional problem (I think Marten's joke reply made the situation hit home - I think she thought it was extremely cute, and noticed she was totally falling for him). But logic doesn't always work out. She was being just as childish as Marten. Instead of celebrating the good things about meeting him, and leaving with a bag of good memories to keep instead of the sour note of how it ended, she just tried to hide from it. I think this is why Padma and Marten could have worked out much better than Dora... because deep down, they have the potential to feel each other's emotional process. And they just look adorable together

What left me disappointed is Faye's reaction to this. She knows what Marten's been through, and instead of trying to understand why he acted the way he did (clue: he told her already), she automatically lashes out at him. Then again, she has her reasons for not liking men who have no patience for emotional BS. But of all people, she should have been able to empathize with Marten's situation. Has her relationship been going that well that she forgot what it's like to just not be able to act like an adult in an emotional mess? I never thought Faye was that kind of girl.

This was basically Marten's equivalent of sobbing and eating delicious chocolate ice-cream. And she just left him he was right to do that instead of offering any support. This might be a realistic end (because sometimes the world just sucks that way), with Marten eventually breaking down (no Dora to bail him out from this mess this time, and no Faye to give him a quick feel-good speech)... but it's just so sad. I like happy Marten, he's cute! T_T

[Tova]

Have you never put off doing something because of the pain it will cause (to yourself even, not necessarily others), even though putting it off will cause more pain later? 

Ohhh yes.

I know I have.  So how about this:

Padma wanted to delay going; when she tried to arrange it, her family put pressure on her (and how they can!) not to change her plans (possibly even before their last night together, which is why she was so conflicted); she couldn't bear to tell Marten, and so avoided him until there was no further option.  This avoidance was sad, though understandable in a flawed world; Marten's reaction was equally unfortunate, but somewhat understandable.  I have sympathy with them both, but also would like to knock their heads together...

A simple and therefore quite believeable theory.

And yeah, I'm with you on the last sentence.

[Overkillengine]

@NotSoAverageJoe:
Amen, man, amen.  

Women who play games do nothing but confuse the hell out of guys at best and just piss them off at worst.

And give the rest an undeserved bad rep.

The real frustrating part is there's no reliable way to tell them apart from the sane ones easily ahead of time. 

[truestatic]

@NotSoAverageJoe:
Amen, man, amen.  

Women who play games do nothing but confuse the hell out of guys at best and just piss them off at worst.

And give the rest an undeserved bad rep.

The real frustrating part is there's no reliable way to tell them apart from the sane ones easily ahead of time. 

Well, as the saying goes, when looking for a partner, you can have pretty, sane, or available.  Pick two.  So logically...

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

  Good god, anyone who is still saying Marten acted like an asshole, clearly hasn't the slightest clue what a real "asshole" is.

[truestatic]

I just joined the forum (after a long time lurking) due to the recent arc.

You aren't the only one.  I guess the drama brings us out. 

[Overkillengine]

I'm starting to think that the concept of "doormat" is as toxic as "nice guy".

In many people's minds, they are the same thing, and equally bad. Especially for the person who thinks of themselves in those terms.

Pretty much. I used to be that way and stopped. Or at least I try to. I'm more likely to be a jerk to someone, but I try not to be a douche to someone without damn good reason and try to stop the moment that reason no longer applies.

I've learned that passiveness/politeness will sometimes for some reason send the message that it was OK to try to walk all over you to some people. Happy happy feel good dialogue just don't fix that usually.

[pwhodges]

Good god, anyone who is still saying Marten acted like an asshole, clearly hasn't the slightest clue what a real "asshole" is.

You reckon?

Yet the consensus here seems to be that Marten is acting like an "asshole" by standing up for himself and refusing to let his heart be ripped out through his anus one more time.

Marten lied to Padma as an un-thought-out act of petty revenge which he immediately regretted, but then did nothing to put right - and the next day looked for reassurance, which he didn't get.  He threw away the chance of a final night of (bitter-sweet) fun.  This was not  "standing up for himself".  He was stupid; understandably so, but still stupid.

[quix0te]

FWIW, I think Marten's response has been blown out of proportion by the comic and the thread.  He didn't curse her out.  He didn't yell at her.  He simply disengaged after she gave every sign that she wanted to disengage.  If she had other crap going on, I find it hard to believe it was so amazingly engrossing that she couldn't call/email/text back and say "I'm sorry I didn't call/text, I'm doing XXXX" or even, "Sorry I haven't responded.  Do miss you." 
His response was a perfectly valid response to being blown off.
The highest probability scenario on her side was that she was playing games or otherwise deliberately ignoring him.  If he goes over, the probability is high that some further shenanigans will ensue, before or after breakup sex.
Bugger that for soldiers.

[TinPenguin]

I have sympathy with them both, but also would like to knock their heads together...

Aye.

People are rarely callous but mostly stupid.

[truestatic]

Good god, anyone who is still saying Marten acted like an asshole, clearly hasn't the slightest clue what a real "asshole" is.

You reckon?

Yet the consensus here seems to be that Marten is acting like an "asshole" by standing up for himself and refusing to let his heart be ripped out through his anus one more time.

Marten lied to Padma as an un-thought-out act of petty revenge which he immediately regretted, but then did nothing to put right - and the next day looked for reassurance, which he didn't get.  He threw away the chance of a final night of (bitter-sweet) fun.  This was not  "standing up for himself".  He was stupid; understandably so, but still stupid.

I didn't even think of it that way at all.  I thought it was a way to avoid telling her the blunt truth, which would probably have been even more hurtful.  "No, I don't want to see you."  Youch.

I saw his refusing to see her as absolutely standing up for himself.  It hurt him to hurt her, and it hurt him to say goodbye like that, but it seems a perfectly valid expression of his feelings.  

Differences of opinion, I guess.

[Soulsynger]

[ ... ]
What I'm really trying to say is that the people who think Marten is an asshole, probably also believe that being the "bigger person" means allowing yourself to be further crushed by listening to the self-serving apologetic crap spouted by the girl who screwed with you, while your own anger and accusation of thoughtlessness on the girl's part ellicits a shrug and a "So I made a mistake! I am what I am." reply.
[ ... ]

Woah, clearly there are issues here.

If Marten was really as heartbroken by what Padma did as some people here seem, it would show more, methinks.

[Welu]

Or when he remembers to draw it, which is only when it's important to the plot, which hasn't been for a while now.

I'd agree that's a reason to justify when the scar is forgotten but it's definitely shown times when it's not relevant to the plot.

Here's a couple:

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=425 to http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=430
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1851 to http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1854 Just the first panel

That's just times I remembered off the top of my head. In between the last two it's missing here but you could argue she's lying different or different perspective.

I know there's a lot more serious discussion going on here but I chose to pick out the comment I had a response where I knew exactly what I thought about it.

I have sympathy with them both, but also would like to knock their heads together...

This basically sums up what I think.

[TinPenguin]

Faye has a scar?

[jurialmunkey]

Long time lurker, first time poster etc. etc. etc.

In regards to: http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2091
I think Tova was on the right track.

Apologies if this line of thinking has already been posted.

I think Padma was looking for validation of her feelings that they were "meant to be" so to speak. Some sort of indication that they had the sort of connection where they could intuit what the other was thinking. This was really the only thing that truly could pull Padma away from leaving (imagine if she decided to stay if it was nothing more than a fling and her grandmother suddenly got very ill again) - some sort of indication that Marten was "the one". Marten's flippant response was not the reaction she had played out in her head - his response changed her mindset from "star crossed lovers" to "oh, I guess I'm just a fling". . Marten, on the other hand, was simply trying to play it cool and not appear overly clingy when he knows that she has to leave.

Basically, it was a scenario where they were both waiting for the other to profess their love. Neither of them did out of trying not to put pressure on the other and confusion over the situation. This would be the classic trope in the Wedding Singer where Adam Sandler rushes to the airport, jumps on the plane, and, with the help of Billy Idol, professes his undying love through song to Drew Barrymore. Tropes are cliché because they're effective plot devices.

But, as life is not like tv, instead we have Marten being passive aggressive...

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

Marten lied to Padma as an un-thought-out act of petty revenge which he immediately regretted, but then did nothing to put right - and the next day looked for reassurance, which he didn't get.  He threw away the chance of a final night of (bitter-sweet) fun.  This was not  "standing up for himself".  He was stupid; understandably so, but still stupid.

Lied? If Marten decided that hanging around in his apartment wallowing in self pity was a better use of his time, then he didn't "lie". But I'll gladly grant you the premise that Marten lied. Because I see it differently:

Marten told an innocuous lie as a way of separating himself from Padma without resorting to throwing out raw emotion and possible nastiness, after being upset with her for severing all contact after they both were having an amazing time together. He then immediately questioned his judgement, and the next day looked for a second opinion on his actions. He took the right steps to guard himself against further pain and chose not to waste his time pursuing some kind of closure (which is always an illusion anyway). He was intelligent, but demonstrated the understandable flaw of second-guessing himself.

[Soulsynger]

Long time lurker, first time poster etc. etc. etc.

In regards to: http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2091

[ ... ]

But, as life is not like tv, instead we have Marten being passive aggressive...

Good first, nice and clean.
But thats a LOT of assumptions especially as to the emotional state of Padma. Getting the image of being "star-crossed lovers" in your head normally takes more time than they've had.
And even if she has it stuck up there, she should be much more emotionally and romantically experienced than to manouver Marten into a forced confession like that... at least, judging from the way she handled the Elliot-situation and the beginning of the Marten-fling she should be....

(I love assumptions btw.)

[truestatic]

(I love assumptions btw.)

When you ASSUME you make Soulsynger pretty happy?

[Overkillengine]

Good god, anyone who is still saying Marten acted like an asshole, clearly hasn't the slightest clue what a real "asshole" is.

You reckon?

Yet the consensus here seems to be that Marten is acting like an "asshole" by standing up for himself and refusing to let his heart be ripped out through his anus one more time.

Marten lied to Padma as an un-thought-out act of petty revenge which he immediately regretted, but then did nothing to put right - and the next day looked for reassurance, which he didn't get.  He threw away the chance of a final night of (bitter-sweet) fun.  This was not  "standing up for himself".  He was stupid; understandably so, but still stupid.

I didn't even think of it that way at all.  I thought it was a way to avoid telling her the blunt truth, which would probably have been even more hurtful.  "No, I don't want to see you."  Youch.

I saw his refusing to see her as absolutely standing up for himself.  It hurt him to hurt her, and it hurt him to say goodbye like that, but it seems a perfectly valid expression of his feelings.  

Differences of opinion, I guess.

"Well, not getting return calls for a week kind of irritated me to the point that it's probably best I not see you for now."

There are polite but firm assertive ways to tell the truth, and avoid "polite lies" that tend to further complicate things.

[Soulsynger]

(I love assumptions btw.)

When you ASSUME you make Soulsynger pretty happy?

Yes...? ...  and I assume you were trying to make a joke there. I don't get it. °O

[truestatic]

(I love assumptions btw.)

When you ASSUME you make Soulsynger pretty happy?

Yes...? ...  and I assume you were trying to make a joke there. I don't get it. °O

It looks like mostly I just make an ass of me.  

"Well, not getting return calls for a week kind of irritated me to the point that it's probably best I not see you for now."

There are polite but firm assertive ways to tell the truth, and avoid "polite lies" that tend to further complicate things.

I know, I just didn't think his primary goal was to hurt her.

[Border Reiver]

Been going through this arc thinking that it is a pretty good representation of a relationship that has changed, and that neither party recognizes it at the same time, nor in the same way.

This, coupled with the challenges both parties have with clear communication have brought us to where they are - both hurt, alone, and in at least Marten's case being called out by both himself and his best friend. 

[gopher]

* If you're not a Douglas Adams fan, I do apologize for that reference.
http://www.otostopcu.org/yazi/h2g2/b2c15.php

Sorry, but what? I think you may have terminally disrupted my world view. Some people aren't Douglas Adams fans? Madness!

[Dr. ROFLPWN]

truestatic, I would like to commend you for being someone with an opposing viewpoint who has articulated it without resorting to generalizations/sexism/general tomfoolery and I don't feel I let you know that you are in fact p. cool.

But I also think that if you really believe he wasn't trying to hurt her, that he wasn't trying to give her a taste of her own medicine, that you give him way too much credit and are fooling yourself for Marten's sake, just a little

[truestatic]

truestatic, I would like to commend you for being someone with an opposing viewpoint who has articulated it without resorting to generalizations/sexism/general tomfoolery and I don't feel I let you know that you are in fact p. cool.

But I also think that if you really believe he wasn't trying to hurt her, that he wasn't trying to give her a taste of her own medicine, that you give him way too much credit and are fooling yourself for Marten's sake, just a little

I probably sympathize with him more than I should, objectively speaking.  He is the protagonist though, so that'll happen.  And thank you, that's cool of you to say.  Despite Jeph's twitter and some general accusations of sexism, pretty much everyone here has seemed to promote a pretty pleasant atmosphere, yourself included.  "I disagree with you, but I respect your opinion" is a rare commodity on the internet, and its nice to find it here.  =]

[AnAverageWriter]

Despite Jeph's twitter and some general accusations of sexism, pretty much everyone here has seemed to promote a pretty pleasant atmosphere, yourself included.  "I disagree with you, but I respect your opinion" is a rare commodity on the internet, and its nice to find it here.  =]

Yeah, much as I admire the guy, I think it's pretty presumptive of Jeph to pop in, look at ONE single post by a newbie then assume the entire forum is acting that way. We try pretty damn hard to get along around here and such. We aren't all running around here screaming about pooping on people's hearts, ya know?

One single off-color post by a new guy out of hundreds and hundreds of posts is pretty damn good, from my perspective.

[tjradcliffe]

But I also think that if you really believe he wasn't trying to hurt her, that he wasn't trying to give her a taste of her own medicine, that you give him way too much credit and are fooling yourself for Marten's sake, just a little

People--even fictional QC people--are complicated and their motives are rarely pure.  I'm sure there was an element of "getting back at her" in Marten's behaviour.  But there are two important factors:  1) it really is her own behaviour he's putting back at her and 2) he has a right to protect himself emotionally.  

She has withdrawn from him.  She's gone from "I want to see more of you" to "I'm too busy right now to make time for you".  Fair enough:  she's not exactly been up-front about it, but she's young and confused.

For her to then turn around and say, "OK, having put you off and rebuffed your every approach for the last few days and given you time to experience emotional separation from me I now want to see you so you can go through the pain of separation again" is pretty second rate, and Marten has every right to say, "I've already done it once, I really don't feel like doing it again, thanks (you bitch)."  That terminal parenthetical is certainly there, and doesn't do Marten any credit, but it's not the whole story.

Having been on the receiving end of behaviour like Padma's (and who hasn't?  why do women DO that? Do they think we don't have any emotional reality of our own?  If you prick us do we not bleat?)  I've gotta say my sympathies are mostly on Marten's side here.