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Call back right away and apologize.

Run to her apartment and apologize.

Wait until tomorrow, and get arrested at the airport trying to apologize at the gate.

Call/go over and ask for an explanation.

Decide it's a lost cause, toast a waffle or two, and try to move on.

[iduguphergrave]

It takes a true friend to point out when you're being a tit. But I too didn't realize she left earlier than expected. Not very cool.

[litthefilter]

Now that we know she's actually decided to leave earlier than she had intended according to her amended plan, I have just lost more of my sympathy for Padma.    "Hey, I decided you aren't worth sticking around for after all, wanna get together tonight?"

... perhaps she changed her plans again after Marten shot her down.

[Dr. ROFLPWN]

She might not have left early if Marten had gone to see her. BUT WE WILL NEVER KNOW because a MAN DOESN'T PUT UP WITH THAT SHIT he just DROPS THAT

GOD FAYE SO UNREASONABLE WHY DON'T YOU REALIZE THAT MARTEN HAD TO DO THIS

</sarcasm>

[truestatic]

Now that we know she's actually decided to leave earlier than she had intended according to her amended plan, I have just lost more of my sympathy for Padma.    "Hey, I decided you aren't worth sticking around for after all, wanna get together tonight?"

... perhaps she changed her plans again after Marten shot her down.

She started the call by telling him she wasn't staying.  Or are you suggesting his rejection might have somehow convinced her to stay in town?   

[Melauren]

Ninja'd by Truestatic. 

Yeah, Marten's rejection was totally after the fact.  Flight booked, bags packed, leaving tomorrow whether she sees Marten or not.

[haikupoet]

Whether she had a good reason or not, that had to have been one long, sad ride down the Mass Pike. Wouldn't be surprised if she was bawling by the time she got to the Ted Williams Tunnel.

[litthefilter]

Now that we know she's actually decided to leave earlier than she had intended according to her amended plan, I have just lost more of my sympathy for Padma.    "Hey, I decided you aren't worth sticking around for after all, wanna get together tonight?"

... perhaps she changed her plans again after Marten shot her down.

She started the call by telling him she wasn't staying.  Or are you suggesting his rejection might have somehow convinced her to stay in town?   

Yup, I'm wrong.

[NotsoAverageJoe]

I can't even count how many times I've witnessed the "Can't-call-the-day-after-a-date-will-look-desperate" thing- from both sides.

the fact that i did call the next day is what got me my second date with my far better half.

yea, i was scared to death that it would come across exactly that way to her... worked out somehow though.  something about having the confidence to take that risk that she found appealing.

so hard to tell where the lines between confidant, arrogant and desperate is, lord knows ive crossed them a few times, but thankfully just being honest and straight up afterwards usually cleared things up.

goes both ways too though, a woman who plays games just oozes a lack of confidence in herself, and just as importantly, her man.  nothing more unattractive than that imo.

[truestatic]

Now that we know she's actually decided to leave earlier than she had intended according to her amended plan, I have just lost more of my sympathy for Padma.    "Hey, I decided you aren't worth sticking around for after all, wanna get together tonight?"

... perhaps she changed her plans again after Marten shot her down.

She started the call by telling him she wasn't staying.  Or are you suggesting his rejection might have somehow convinced her to stay in town?   

Yup, I'm wrong.

No worries, just wanted to make sure I didn't have my wires crossed.

[MrJangles]

Whether she had a good reason or not, that had to have been one long, sad ride down the Mass Pike. Wouldn't be surprised if she was bawling by the time she got to the Ted Williams Tunnel.

You're assuming she actually cared enough to spare him more than a second thought.  I imagine Marten was forgotten before she was out of the driveway.

[truestatic]

Whether she had a good reason or not, that had to have been one long, sad ride down the Mass Pike. Wouldn't be surprised if she was bawling by the time she got to the Ted Williams Tunnel.

You're assuming she actually cared enough to spare him more than a second thought.  I imagine Marten was forgotten before she was out of the driveway.

Iunno, his rejection was enough to put her off balance on the phone, and the concern over their growing connection was enough to make her actively avoid him and move her plans up.  I'd say he had a pretty reasonable effect on how she felt.

[Tova]

You're assuming she actually cared enough to spare him more than a second thought.  I imagine Marten was forgotten before she was out of the driveway.

what is this I don't even

[Dr. ROFLPWN]

TONIGHT'S FORECAST:

woman-blaming and sexist horseshit

woman-blaming everywhere

*ollies outy*

[haikupoet]

Whether she had a good reason or not, that had to have been one long, sad ride down the Mass Pike. Wouldn't be surprised if she was bawling by the time she got to the Ted Williams Tunnel.

You're assuming she actually cared enough to spare him more than a second thought.  I imagine Marten was forgotten before she was out of the driveway.

If anything, she's almost certainly devastated. For all we know, the departure was not quite a done deal and she only purchased the ticket at the last minute. Or maybe she was calling his bluff.

There is one possibility that now occurs to me: she hasn't left town. She is truly devastated and ANGRY. Marten will run into her and she will tear into him. There will be tears and rage. What there will not be is a reconciliation. Marten will realize he jumped the gun and will wind up miserable for weeks. Why might this happen? Because life is messy and we don't always get to wrap up our loose ends, and sometimes, when we do get them wrapped up, we realize they may have been better left untied.

[NotsoAverageJoe]

Now that we know she's actually decided to leave earlier than she had intended according to her amended plan, I have just lost more of my sympathy for Padma.    "Hey, I decided you aren't worth sticking around for after all, wanna get together tonight?"

... perhaps she changed her plans again after Marten shot her down.

seems a bit abrupt to do that.  sticking around would have meant calling granny, her new landlord or whoever's place she was gonna crash at, her new job (assuming she'd gotten one), etc etc.

suddenly, basically out of the blue, deciding to leave less than a day after the call, after already changing all her plans so she could stay a bit longer... only thing i could think that would provoke a reaction like that would be a whole helluva mega asston more emotional turmoil than her previous acts portrayed.

[truestatic]

There is one possibility that now occurs to me: she hasn't left town. She is truly devastated and ANGRY. Marten will run into her and she will tear into him. There will be tears and rage. What there will not be is a reconciliation. Marten will realize he jumped the gun and will wind up miserable for weeks.

I don't get it.  You're suggesting she was never going to leave town?  That this was all some game that Marten didn't play in to, and now that he's found out he's going to feel worse about it?

[haikupoet]

There is one possibility that now occurs to me: she hasn't left town. She is truly devastated and ANGRY. Marten will run into her and she will tear into him. There will be tears and rage. What there will not be is a reconciliation. Marten will realize he jumped the gun and will wind up miserable for weeks.

I don't get it.  You're suggesting she was never going to leave town?  That this was all some game that Marten didn't play in to, and now that he's found out he's going to feel worse about it?

Things do sometimes happen to screw up flights, among other things. It doesn't necessarily have to be a game, just some bad luck.

[truestatic]

Things do sometimes happen to screw up flights, among other things. It doesn't necessarily have to be a game, just some bad luck.

Oh okay, my bad.  Fair enough.

I don't know, I have a hard time imagining anything that explosively dramatic.  I expect the next few weeks are going to be pretty maudlin whenever Marten's around.  What's the point of self pity if you can't wallow in it a little?

[Blackjoker]

Hypothetically it might be more she was trying to decide if she really could stay longer, had trouble talking to Marten about it, and then when it finally came down to it she wanted to talk to him and his comment maybe filled her with guilt or she figured it fully was over and left. Her leaving earlier than she had said after the extension thing was a pretty low thing to do. As said, what Marten did was pretty passive aggressive, however it is also understandable. (Note that I am not saying that it was RIGHT, I just said that I can understand it).  Also, I almost feel like there needs to be some way to discuss this without someone claiming that complaints against a female character are misogynistic.

Faye yelling at him also feels in character, now it's probably not the best idea and we're going to see another round of 'Rub salt in the wounds' but meh.

[themacnut]

Ah Marten, Marten, Marten. You really need to explain your point of view better. If your reply to Faye's question had been something like "She doesn't call me for a week, then calls out of the blue with NO apology or real explanation, and expects me to meet up with her like nothing happened?? Of course I refused!" you might have gotten more sympathy. Notice I said MIGHT have.

But since he didn't, it seems like he's already self-flagellating himself, and has now enlisted Faye's unwitting help.

[Delator]

Marten has routinely had to deal with the fact that the women in his life tend to use an emotional front when dealing with him to hide the reality underneath.

Padma has managed to join others on a pretty long list...so it does not in the least surprise me that Marten chose to deal with it in this way. Asshole, maybe...but it's not like going the opposite direction has ever worked for him.

And yeah, go ahead Faye...pile right on.  

[haikupoet]

Marten has routinely had to deal with the fact that the women in his life tend to use an emotional front when dealing with him to hide the reality underneath.

Padma has managed to join others on a pretty long list...so it does not in the least surprise me that Marten chose to deal with it in this way. Asshole, maybe...but it's not like going the opposite direction has ever worked for him.

And yeah, go ahead Faye...pile right on. 

I'm inclined to think she does have a point on some level. Or at least I will assume so till Word of God says otherwise, mainly because I'm not the best choice in the world for analyzing women's reactions, and I'm assuming Jeph's wife is helping him along on plotlines like this.

[Tova]

He's already got lines under his eyes, so I don't see how this is "working" for him.

[Blackjoker]

Ah Marten, Marten, Marten. You really need to explain your point of view better. If your reply to Faye's question had been something like "She doesn't call me for a week, then calls out of the blue with NO apology or real explanation, and expects me to meet up with her like nothing happened?? Of course I said no!" you might have gotten more sympathy. Notice I said MIGHT have.

Sounds like he's already self-flagellating himself, and has now enlisted Faye's unwitting help.

Except Faye was already aware that Padma had been blowing him off. If it had been Steve, Hannelore, Marigold, Angus or someone that we hadn't seen him discuss the problem on panel with already that would be one thing. Faye however knew that Padma had been avoiding Marten, for odd reasons thought that him not confronting her at work was 'passive aggressive' so yeah, this does feel a bit...odd.

[Torlek]

TONIGHT'S FORECAST:

woman-blaming and sexist horseshit

woman-blaming everywhere

*ollies outy*

Don't forget the Marten-hate. There will be plenty of Marten-hate.

[Tova]

Faye however knew that Padma had been avoiding Marten, for odd reasons thought that him not confronting her at work was 'passive aggressive' so yeah, this does feel a bit...odd.

I don't understand how it is odd. She thought that his initial behaviour was passive aggressive, and didn't feel happy about it... then he does something which fits far more firmly in the category of passive aggressive than the original behaviour, destoying any chance to mend the original conflict. How to you expect her to react?

[Is it cold in here?]

By emptying a container of milk over Padma?

[truestatic]

By emptying a container of milk over Padma?

Padma's safely out of milksreach, so she has to settle for the whipping boy.

[Blackjoker]

Faye however knew that Padma had been avoiding Marten, for odd reasons thought that him not confronting her at work was 'passive aggressive' so yeah, this does feel a bit...odd.

I don't understand how it is odd. She thought that his initial behaviour was passive aggressive, and didn't feel happy about it... then he does something which fits far more firmly in the category of passive aggressive than the original behaviour, destoying any chance to mend the original conflict. How to you expect her to react?

My point was more in the vein of, 'explaining that wouldn't help and in fact would be likely counterproductive"

[MrJangles]

Whether she had a good reason or not, that had to have been one long, sad ride down the Mass Pike. Wouldn't be surprised if she was bawling by the time she got to the Ted Williams Tunnel.

You're assuming she actually cared enough to spare him more than a second thought.  I imagine Marten was forgotten before she was out of the driveway.

If anything, she's almost certainly devastated. For all we know, the departure was not quite a done deal and she only purchased the ticket at the last minute. Or maybe she was calling his bluff.

There is one possibility that now occurs to me: she hasn't left town. She is truly devastated and ANGRY. Marten will run into her and she will tear into him. There will be tears and rage. What there will not be is a reconciliation. Marten will realize he jumped the gun and will wind up miserable for weeks. Why might this happen? Because life is messy and we don't always get to wrap up our loose ends, and sometimes, when we do get them wrapped up, we realize they may have been better left untied.

She said she was leaving and had been packing before Marten had said anything.  Had she said she was leaving after Marten started talking, you might have an argument.  It's a lot of work to pack up your life and move across country.  Not something that can really be done spur-of-the-moment, so she must've been doing it for that entire week.

Not leaving town would be pretty much more effort into this than Padma seems capable of, to me.  Considering she used the grandmother excuse before they had their sexy times and everyone else knew she was leaving.

No matter what, Marten will end up miserable.  Whether through his own action or from Faye/Dora making him miserable for being an ass.  A justified ass, but an ass nonetheless.

[innermoppet]

Where is Faye's scar? 

[idontunderstand]

C'mon Faye, hug him. Love them the most when they least deserve etc..

[Dr. ROFLPWN]

TONIGHT'S FORECAST:

woman-blaming and sexist horseshit

woman-blaming everywhere

*ollies outy*

Don't forget the Marten-hate. There will be plenty of Marten-hate.

I find this hilarious because I am like self-appointed chief officer in charge of Marten-hate.

Which isn't really Marten-hate, because I like Marten, but I think that people are really eager to absolve him of all responsibility for the problems in his life, and instead blame them on the women around him! Which is incredibly sexist and stupid! And then I get all schadenfreudey when shit happens to him and it's just this vicious cycle and

The point is

Marten fucked up this time; Padma instigated the problem, yes, but Marten really had the crowning fuck-up here. Instead of be the bigger person, instead of actually being a nice dude, he acted like a prick and now he will reap the prick harvest. I can't really say anything to dump on him, dude dumped on himself. And Faye is rightfully not letting him off.

I recognize Marten is a good dude usually, but the magnitude of one's virtue does not excuse one when one sins. It weighs against it, yes: I'd never call Marten the villain, not even here, and his actions had reasons behind them...but they were wrooooooonnnnnggggg

[Dust]

Is it just me, or are a lot of the reactions (in-strip and out) predicated around it being a relationship, when it was (initially) an on-off casual thing?


(I guess that makes them.. casualties. Sorry)

[Armadillo]

I think even the noblest person on the planet would get just a wee bit tired of "being the bigger man" when he's the only one ever being said bigger man, and all it's ever done is blown up in his face.

Sometimes people just get fed up with their circumstances, regardless of fault.  

As for "sexism" being at work with those siding with Marten, that's just plain ridiculous.  Who does Marten interact with on a regular basis, and who is in most of his storylines?

1. Faye
2. Dora
3. Hannelore
4. Padma
5. Elliot
6. Steve

So of those six, I'd say only Faye, Dora, and Padma have been "instrumental" in his character development, being that his dating life is his central story.  Most people think Steve's a jerk, but he's in the comic so infrequently as to be not much of a factor.  Remember the Marten/Elliot drama a few weeks back?  The point is, when it comes to drama in the comic with Marten, it's the women who are there.  It's not sexist to put blame on a woman IF A WOMAN DESERVES BLAME.  Automatically absolving Faye/Dora/Padma is no better than automatically absolving Marten, is it?

[Soulsynger]

Marten fucked up this time; Padma instigated the problem, yes, but Marten really had the crowning fuck-up here. Instead of be the bigger person, instead of actually being a nice dude, he acted like a prick and now he will reap the prick harvest. I can't really say anything to dump on him, dude dumped on himself. And Faye is rightfully not letting him off.

I recognize Marten is a good dude usually, but the magnitude of one's virtue does not excuse one when one sins. It weighs against it, yes: I'd never call Marten the villain, not even here, and his actions had reasons behind them...but they were wrooooooonnnnnggggg

I feel like I've been trying to say that since the beginning, thanks, man =)

... also, JEPH IS RUININ' MAH WEEKENDS!

Is it just me, or are a lot of the reactions (in-strip and out) predicated around it being a relationship, when it was (initially) an on-off casual thing?
(I guess that makes them.. casualties. Sorry)

/slap
... and I think after reading some of the stuff Padma said during that ON-OFF-sex-relationship that, to her, by the end it must've felt more like unwillingly-ON than fun-OFF... ~~

[truestatic]

TONIGHT'S FORECAST:

woman-blaming and sexist horseshit

woman-blaming everywhere

*ollies outy*

Don't forget the Marten-hate. There will be plenty of Marten-hate.

I find this hilarious because I am like self-appointed chief officer in charge of Marten-hate.

Which isn't really Marten-hate, because I like Marten, but I think that people are really eager to absolve him of all responsibility for the problems in his life, and instead blame them on the women around him! Which is incredibly sexist and stupid! And then I get all schadenfreudey when shit happens to him and it's just this vicious cycle and

The point is

Marten fucked up this time; Padma instigated the problem, yes, but Marten really had the crowning fuck-up here. Instead of be the bigger person, instead of actually being a nice dude, he acted like a prick and now he will reap the prick harvest. I can't really say anything to dump on him, dude dumped on himself. And Faye is rightfully not letting him off.

I recognize Marten is a good dude usually, but the magnitude of one's virtue does not excuse one when one sins. It weighs against it, yes: I'd never call Marten the villain, not even here, and his actions had reasons behind them...but they were wrooooooonnnnnggggg

I feel the way I feel about Marten and Padma because of what they did and who the protagonist is, not because if their equipment.  If Marten had done what Padma did, or Padma was the protagonist, I might feel differently, but I hate the implication that I can't say that I think a character screwed up because a criticism of them is an implied criticism of their gender.  From my point of view, Padma acted really poorly, and while a saint may have absolved her of any wrongdoing, I don't think Marten owed her that.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

I just had an interesting thought.

If this story was about a woman who stood up for herself against a thoughtless dude who led her on by rejecting him using the "sorry I'm busy" method, there would be people here who would get very upset if the notion was suggested that she acted like a "bitch" to the guy. That would be a sexist misogynist attitude, right? Yet the consensus here seems to be that Marten is acting like an "asshole" by standing up for himself and refusing to let his heart be ripped out through his anus one more time.

What I'm really trying to say is that the people who think Marten is an asshole, probably also believe that being the "bigger person" means allowing yourself to be further crushed by listening to the self-serving apologetic crap spouted by the girl who screwed with you, while your own anger and accusation of thoughtlessness on the girl's part ellicits a shrug and a "So I made a mistake! I am what I am." reply. I say that people who think Marten is being a jerk are just misandrists who think that men should bend over and take it when they get hurt by women.

[Tova]

Not right... not even wrong. It makes my head hurt just trying to read it.

[truestatic]

I just had an interesting thought.

If this story was about a woman who stood up for herself against a thoughtless dude who led her on by rejecting him using the "sorry I'm busy" method, there would be people here who would get very upset if the notion was suggested that she acted like a "bitch" to the guy. That would be a sexist misogynist attitude, right? Yet the consensus here seems to be that Marten is acting like an "asshole" by standing up for himself and refusing to let his heart be ripped out through his anus one more time.

What I'm really trying to say is that the people who think Marten is an asshole, probably also believe that being the "bigger person" means allowing yourself to be further crushed by listening to the self-serving apologetic crap spouted by the girl who screwed with you, while your own anger and accusation of thoughtlessness on the girl's part ellicits a shrug and a "So I made a mistake! I am what I am." reply. I say that people who think Marten is being a jerk are just misandrists who think that men should bend over and take it when they get hurt by women.

I don't know if I'd go quite that far.  While hypotheticals can be fun, I'd avoid using them as solid justification for any position.  Best that they're treated with restraint.  We all know how we'd like to think we'd react if situations were reversed, but unless they actually are reversed, all we've got is guesses and wishes.  

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

I just thought I'd throw that bomb out there because everybody is so quick to call Marten an asshole.

[NotsoAverageJoe]

No matter what, Marten will end up miserable.  Whether through his own action or from Faye/Dora making him miserable for being an ass.  A justified ass, but an ass nonetheless.

id actually like this to be a sort of turning point for him.  that he'll stop second guessing himself quite so much and use this whole episode as some sort of twisted therapy to stop creating so much self-regret.

ffs marty, stop being so passive, start standing up for your decisions and accept responsibility for them, despite what the admirably strong women in your life think.

[NotsoAverageJoe]

TONIGHT'S FORECAST:

woman-blaming and sexist horseshit

woman-blaming everywhere

*ollies outy*

Don't forget the Marten-hate. There will be plenty of Marten-hate.

I find this hilarious because I am like self-appointed chief officer in charge of Marten-hate.

Which isn't really Marten-hate, because I like Marten, but I think that people are really eager to absolve him of all responsibility for the problems in his life, and instead blame them on the women around him! Which is incredibly sexist and stupid! And then I get all schadenfreudey when shit happens to him and it's just this vicious cycle and

The point is

Marten fucked up this time; Padma instigated the problem, yes, but Marten really had the crowning fuck-up here. Instead of be the bigger person, instead of actually being a nice dude, he acted like a prick and now he will reap the prick harvest. I can't really say anything to dump on him, dude dumped on himself. And Faye is rightfully not letting him off.

I recognize Marten is a good dude usually, but the magnitude of one's virtue does not excuse one when one sins. It weighs against it, yes: I'd never call Marten the villain, not even here, and his actions had reasons behind them...but they were wrooooooonnnnnggggg

whoa whoa whoa...

you reap what you sow.

why should it always fall on marten to be the nice guy?  i actually don't see much wrong in what he did, from his perspective padma simply used him as a last hurrah.  he was justifiably angry, and to be honest, i don't see how padma deserves marten being nice in response to her treatment of him.

only so many times you can turn the other cheek before they're so raw it'd actually be harmful for you to keep doing it.

as for the gender-bias thing going on here... double-standards are a wonderful thing aren't they?  when a woman gets out of the dating game after a rough breakup, she's given sympathy and comfort.  when a guy does the same thing, he's weak and indecisive.  if the roles were reversed Marten would be the asshole for stringing her along and she'd be viewed as justified in blowing him off, because after all, being a man, of course he just used her to get his junk wet one last time before moving.  but since she was the initiator, not him, she's automatically absolved of much of the fault that, rightfully, is hers to shoulder.

and is it any wonder that the other women in his life are giving him grief?  from a character viewpoint, they are able to see her side far more easily than his, which automatically puts him at a disadvantage in any dealings with them about the whole affair.

[Is it cold in here?]

Where is Faye's scar?  

Jeph has suggested that it has faded with time and only shows up in certain lighting conditions.

Marten could have had a final fling with Padma without creating bad enabling dynamics in the relationship, because in any event the relationship (if it can be called one) would be over the next day no matter what.

[akronnick]

Or when he remembers to draw it, which is only when it's important to the plot, which hasn't been for a while now.

[pwhodges]

I just thought I'd throw that bomb out there because everybody is so quick to call Marten an asshole.

Well, Marten did that for himself.

As for your "leading on" scenario above, I don't think you have described a genuine parallel to how Padma behaved.

[shlominus]

Today I got so close to a wild sea lion that it was like "hey, please do not come any closer or I will bite you" and I was like "okay cool" and it was like "cool" and we chilled out for a while.

this is awesome. 

[Dr. ROFLPWN]

I think even the noblest person on the planet would get just a wee bit tired of "being the bigger man" when he's the only one ever being said bigger man, and all it's ever done is blown up in his face.

Sometimes people just get fed up with their circumstances, regardless of fault.  

You (and several others!) are entirely missing my point.

Yes. Sure. He can be tired of it, because being virtuous is really inconvenient and a drag and hard to maintain, and I'm not just being sardonic; there is good reason 'virtue' is usually a divine quality. It's hard to keep turning the other cheek!

BUT

That doesn't mean it's right when you aren't virtuous! That just means it's understandable! I understand why Marten behaved badly; he had every reason. Padma behaved badly first, too! But the point is that none of that makes his behavior okay, he acted like a fucking jackass.

That he regrets it is good, because it was fucking wrong!

As for "sexism" being at work with those siding with Marten, that's just plain ridiculous.  Who does Marten interact with on a regular basis, and who is in most of his storylines?

1. Faye
2. Dora
3. Hannelore
4. Padma
5. Elliot
6. Steve

So of those six, I'd say only Faye, Dora, and Padma have been "instrumental" in his character development, being that his dating life is his central story.  Most people think Steve's a jerk, but he's in the comic so infrequently as to be not much of a factor.  Remember the Marten/Elliot drama a few weeks back?  The point is, when it comes to drama in the comic with Marten, it's the women who are there.  It's not sexist to put blame on a woman IF A WOMAN DESERVES BLAME.  Automatically absolving Faye/Dora/Padma is no better than automatically absolving Marten, is it?

You are showing a very poor understanding of sexism and how it works, and no one, least of all me, is auto-absolving anyone. Padma acted ridiculously badly and owed Marten an apology at the very least as one human being to another.

BUUUT

To say that it is all on her, and to extrapolate that it is something "women do" and to go on about how "women play games" or to call her a "bitch" is when we take a nice detour into open sexism and misogyny!

Also, some of you may not know this, but there is such a thing as male privilege! It's not really a cool thing and it's even less cool to enforce it!

[pwhodges]

Things to bear in mind to help keep this place a decent one to visit.

(1) Blame culture.

It's unpleasant when people feel that blame  has to be assigned for everything that happens.  You know, sometimes things are just too difficult; sometimes they just don't work out; sometimes there are simply misunderstandings; sometimes we make mistakes.  These things happen in spite of the best intentions.  Assigning blame slips very easily into believing that mistakes and misunderstandings and failures are always avoidable and therefore effectively deliberate, and so should be punished.  Punishing other people for simple things that just happen makes one an unpleasant person; life is better for everyone when forgiveness and absolution are freely offered rather than having to be earned.

(2) Projection

We are here to discuss the cast of QC and their experiences. It may be interesting to compare our experience with theirs, and to see how we or they might have behaved differently to have a chance of a better outcome; we can learn from such discussions.  However, extrapolating a similarity in situations into simply stating that the characters should then behave as we would have done (or even have already done in the past), without giving thought to whether that behaviour was the best option, or even an acceptable one - either for the QC character or indeed for oneself - commonly leads to exposing our own deficiencies or insecurities.  These thoughtless responses are perhaps the ones which most upset Jeph, and which lead to the most unpleasant arguments here.

(3) Bigotry

Most of society is deeply sexist to this day in spite of what changes have been made over the last century.  When discussing a heterosexual relationship, of course there is a man and a woman involved, and if one can be seen as at fault at some point, that will be the man or the woman.  This self-evident fact doesn't make sexism.  However, the moment that the character's sex is used to justify their behaviour, or to explain it, or to define what they should have done, then the line has been crossed.  We should put effort into avoiding doing that, as a step towards making the world a better place for everyone.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

I just thought I'd throw that bomb out there because everybody is so quick to call Marten an asshole.

Well, Marten did that for himself.

When a person who is so used to being a doormat actually starts refusing to be one, they might be inclined to think they're turning into an asshole when it's not really the case.

As for your "leading on" scenario above, I don't think you have described a genuine parallel to how Padma behaved.

Perhaps not, but your opinion may not be closest to the "truth" either.