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The strip.

66 (13.1%)

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110 (21.9%)

MY health.

60 (11.9%)

YOUR health.

31 (6.2%)

Family and friends (though not necessarily in that order).

86 (17.1%)

This forum.

20 (4%)

Turkey and all the trimmings.

13 (2.6%)

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47 (9.3%)

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24 (4.8%)

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...must... read... ALL the posts...

33 (6.6%)

Total Members Voted: 173

[Emperor Norton]

To avoid outing her as trans, maybe?

How would them being twins out her as trans?

[LovelyAngel]

It's made me happy to see so many other trans* people posting in this thread. Just warm the very cockles of my heart.

*smiles* *waves*

Today's comic certainly brought a lot of transfolk out of the woodwork. We should have a party or sumthin'. Maybe a Questionable Gender Party. 

[Oglokoog]

To avoid outing her as trans, maybe?

How would them being twins out her as trans?

Because they look identical (obviously, stylized art, but still). Of course, there are dizygotic twins (i.e. not identical) but it still seems to me like it's easier to just claim they're not twins at all. And seriously - you don't find their insistence that they're not twins the least bit fishy?
I'm not saying they are twins, just that the possibility is there until Jeph confirms it outside of the comic (which he already might have, for all I know).

[TheEvilDog]

Has Jeph confirmed it outside of the comic? Because the possibility that they actually are twins and only say they're not is still there if he hasn't.

I would like to point people to Occam's Razor. The simplest solution is often the correct one. In this instance, the solution here comes straight from the horse's mouth, both from Clinton and Claire.. Why would Claire state that she was three years old than her brother? If they were twins, than surely this little white lie would make her look foolish.

Siblings don't have to be twins in order to look quite similar. Strong familial traits can create the appearance of siblings being twins, despite an age gap of several years. What people tend to focus on are the eyes, the nose and the jawline, they proceed to fill in the rest of the face without really paying attention to it. If we look at Claire and Clinton now, we can see there are some masculine traits in Claire's face, such as the slightly larger nose, the chin. We see a family resembelance, not proof that they are twins.

Some siblings look a like, some look completely different. Its as easy as that. There is no conspiracy of them really being twins to cover up Claire being trans.

[Emperor Norton]

Because they look identical (obviously, stylized art, but still). Of course, there are dizygotic twins (i.e. not identical) but it still seems to me like it's easier to just claim they're not twins at all. And seriously - you don't find their insistence that they're not twins the least bit fishy?
I'm not saying they are twins, just that the possibility is there until Jeph confirms it outside of the comic (which he already might have, for all I know).

Its also a possibility that Marten is really a martian, I mean, Hey, Jeph hasn't stated that he isn't!, but I consider it highly unlikely. (and this requires even less stretching because Marten has never claimed he isn't either (that I remember))

The whole twin thing just sounds like two siblings who look very similar who are tired of being called twins.

Lying about their ages is just a weird thing to do. Let's say for arguments sake that you are right.

Either

A) She is lying about her own age and is really 21, and if so, amazing job getting to grad school that young. And most people who manage something like that are very PROUD of doing that, and are not likely to want to lie and say they are older.

or

B) She is lying about her brothers age, and I'm sorry, I wouldn't agree to claiming I'm 3 years younger than I am just to cover someones paranoia.

or

C) She is lying about BOTH Of their ages, and I think we all agree this is the most absurd option.

Either way, this continued charade would require one of them to not be able to celebrate their birthdays at the appropriate time, and all on the OFF chance that someone would go "hey these two twins look the same, but are opposite genders, ever think they might have BOTH been assigned as male at birth". Some siblings look remarkably alike, some twins of opposite gender look very similar. They do come from the same genetic stock after all.

The idea that they are actually twins and are lying about it is such a stretch of any form of logic. Its just patently absurd to consider.

(Also, go back through their interactions. Claire reads VERY MUCH like the elder sibling in their interactions.)

[jwhouk]

She has stated that she's 24, and he's 21. Unless Clinton says at a later time that he's not 21 - which is unlikely, since HE said "WE'RE NOT TWINS" - then we should probably assume that they are telling the truth and they are not, in fact, twins. Occam's Razor and all that.

EDIT: #### it, NINJA'D by the Red Text AGAIN.

[TheEvilDog]

EDIT: #### it, NINJA'D by the Red Text AGAIN.

It's alright, it happens to everyone at some point. 

[jwhouk]

Oh? Well, how many times did it happen to YOU before you posted this last time?  

[TheEvilDog]

Once.
Twice.
Three times annoying!

[jwhouk]

That's why I'm on the forum skin that has the option to turn that off.

[PHDrillSergeant]

...HE said "WE'RE NOT TWINS" - then we should probably assume...

In that comic. Second panel, on claire.

Bam. Adam's apple.

[PHDrillSergeant]

...HE said "WE'RE NOT TWINS" - then we should probably assume...

In that comic. Second panel, on claire.

Bam. Adam's apple.

In fact, that adam's apple is visible in a few pages. Most notably, this one: http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2278

[Vurogj]

...HE said "WE'RE NOT TWINS" - then we should probably assume...

In fact, that adam's apple is visible in a few pages. Most notably, this one: http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2278

In both the comics you quoted, look at Hannelore.

EDIT : Quoted is the wrong word, one was a quote of jwhouk, one was a citation by yourself.

[TheEvilDog]

I believe that PHDrillSergeant is referring to here:



Circled spot.

It might be a trick of the light, but it does look like an Adam's Apple. I see no such spot on Hanners' neck.

[Sassafras]

I think that's her sternocleidomastoid muscle, which becomes easier to see when you turn your head like that. It's too far to the side to be an adam's apple.

Also it's kind of creepy to go through her appearances with a fine-tooth comb, looking for "male" physical traits. I don't think Jeph would have been quite that crass.

[Ph2]

I believe that PHDrillSergeant is referring to here:

<snip>

Circled spot.

It might be a trick of the light, but it does look like an Adam's Apple. I see no such spot on Hanners' neck.
<snip>

It would seem a bit bizarre since Marten doesn't have a noticeable adam's apple, and I can't really see one on Steve or Angus. Of course, Neither I or my brother have a noticeable adam's apple so it could be genetic.

[Method of Madness]

Has Jeph confirmed it outside of the comic? Because the possibility that they actually are twins and only say they're not is still there if he hasn't.

Wait, what? That's not how it works. It was said in the comic which makes it canon. The only thing that could overturn that is if it was somehow shown she was lying...also within the comic.

[FunkyTuba]

gratuitous post to get this to show up on my "new replies" button

[ponderch3rry]

Is it REALLY necessary to go through every picture of Claire and point out every physical aspect that MIGHT be interpreted as "male"? It's incredibly rude, disrespectful and really goes against what Jeph is trying to say in the latest comic. Marten reacts with an "OK, cool" because QC is a world of diversities and most importantly, acceptance.

You want to know how to treat trans people? As PEOPLE. 

[AnalogyShark]

Is it REALLY necessary to go through every picture of Claire and point out every physical aspect that MIGHT be interpreted as "male"? It's incredibly rude, disrespectful and really goes against what Jeph is trying to say in the latest comic. Marten reacts with an "OK, cool" because QC is a world of diversities and most importantly, acceptance.

You want to know how to treat trans people? As PEOPLE.

It is when evaluating Jeph's work as a work of writing.  If Claire was a real person, yes, this would be incredibly rude.  But she isn't.  She's a construct of Jeph's mind.  These people are just providing proof that this was a planned event that was sufficiently foreshadowed, and not just an ass pull, in terms of the writing.

So far I believe the lips argument has been the strongest one.

Sorry if someone's mentioned this already...  But there was another visual foreshadowing that Claire was trans which exists.

Male characters do not have lips in QC, only female characters.  Claire has no lips.  That's an indication that she's genetically male, as it's a universal sex trait in the QC universe.

[Is it cold in here?]

I hope we can treat Claire as a person and still play the over-analysis game.

[TheEvilDog]

I hope we can treat Claire as a person and still play the over-analysis game.

Its the best kind of game!

But as it has been said by numerous people, myself included, trans* are people, who deserve respect, as everyone does. I don't think looking back to look for clues in previous comics doesn't take away from Claire, but rather, its like a film or a book that has a major twist near the end. The instinct is to go back and to look/read through the material again and realise there are subtle hints along the way. Which reflects well on Jeph's skill, that he had this planned so well in advance to leave such clues in the open that everyone overlooked it.

[MillionDollar Belt Sander]

10 pages and it's only Monday.     

Just a friendly non-moderator threat of over-the-top retaliation, violence and horrible violation:    Jeph is already strung out because of his hand injury and the fallout from the tumblr incident.     He's going out on a limb with this new arc... and I for one applaud it.

ANYTHING that smacks of antagonizing the already stressed Mr. Jeph further will be dealt with via vigorous belt-sanding.     And I don't mean fine-grit either.       Should that fail to discourage you...  I have a high-speed stainless-steel WIRE BRUSH that you might like to meet.     


Please resume the entertaining discussions, over-analysis and petty-bickering.     Few things entertain me more than this forum when I am having a medication-induced insomnia-fit.   

[maxh]

fallout from the tumblr incident

But which one?

[Rockman]

The lips thing is definitely interesting, and kudos for putting that together!  That was yours, right Karilyn?  But I wonder if it's just stylistic coincidence for Claire - she and Marigold seem to be two of Jeph's favorite characters to draw lately, and I don't think Marigold has lips most of the time.  Both do the funny overbite thing sometimes ("I'M EV TRAINING DRAGONITE!  SEE?"), too.

[henri bemis]

I understand the impulse to anyalyze every bit of media I like, but I can also see that it would be really hurtful to someone if they told me they were trans* and my response was "oh, NOW I see it!  I'm going to scrutinize your body and point out all the imperfections I didn't even notice before!"  Which is not to say I don't think there's value in going back through the comic, but I think Claire's words more than her appearance are better foreshadowing. 

I loved this comic.  Panel 5, in particular.  So much said without dialogue!  I may have squeed.

[AngelofShadows]

I haven't seen this much discussion this quickly since the discussion thread during break up week (good times....good times. For me. It was funny to read. I imagine it was horrible for the mods)

I am overjoyed by the (mostly) mature discussion about what is not the easiest topic to discuss.

I am saddened by the lack of Psyduck.

I am always saddened by the lack of Psyduck.

 

[Tormuse]

I hope we can treat Claire as a person and still play the over-analysis game.

Hmm...  while I applaud everyone's thirst for knowledge and enjoy over-analysis myself sometimes, and I can understand the position of, "she's a fictional character, so she won't mind," I can also understand the perspective that it seems a bit creepy to dissect Claire's every appearance like this, especially in light of the recent influx of trans people joining this forum because of this comic.  I hope people can keep the discussion in good taste, because I can already foresee that line of conversation descending into angry arguments.

The answer to these questions (Is he ftm or is she mtf? Pre-Op or Post-Op?) has a huge bearing on her identity. Since she (since we don't know for sure and I absolutely HATE to use they as a pronoun for a single person, I'll use the female form for Claire now) is not a real person that we can interact with there is no reference, like voice, habit or the content of a conversation, to learn about her identity.

I think it's safe to call Claire "she."  The fact that she used the phrase, "I'm trans" so matter-of-factly suggests that she has already transitioned to her target gender.  (One way or another)  I think that, if she meant that she was about to transition to a male identity, she would have used different words than "I'm trans."

[St.Clair]

I think the twins assumption is due to their VERY similar appearance within the strip - honestly, how many panels in which they both appear are literal copy-pastes, not to mention the original concept art?

I'm not sure how well Jeph's art style can convey an age difference of only a few years (when both characters are physically-mature adults).

[RyanW1019]

I understand the impulse to anyalyze every bit of media I like, but I can also see that it would be really hurtful to someone if they told me they were trans* and my response was "oh, NOW I see it!  I'm going to scrutinize your body and point out all the imperfections I didn't even notice before!"  Which is not to say I don't think there's value in going back through the comic, but I think Claire's words more than her appearance are better foreshadowing. 

I loved this comic.  Panel 5, in particular.  So much said without dialogue!  I may have squeed.

I wouldn't say they were looking for "imperfections." At least, nobody has phrased it that way. They were just trying to see whether there was any noticeable foreshadowing in the art that might have allowed them to see this coming.

I might be off-base here, but my impression is that this forum tends to play the overanalysis game with every character and every comic. It's just getting on more people's nerves here because it's a very delicate subject that lots of people are intensely curious about due to a lack of knowledge.

[ponderch3rry]

Clinton and Claire are not twins.

Claire is 24 and Clinton is 21.

[Is it cold in here?]

I understand the impulse to anyalyze every bit of media I like, but I can also see that it would be really hurtful to someone if they told me they were trans* and my response was "oh, NOW I see it!  I'm going to scrutinize your body and point out all the imperfections I didn't even notice before!"  Which is not to say I don't think there's value in going back through the comic, but I think Claire's words more than her appearance are better foreshadowing. 

I loved this comic.  Panel 5, in particular.  So much said without dialogue!  I may have squeed.

Well said!

BobTheApple, welcome.

EDIT: Yes about over-analysis. New people, please know that we always think too hard about things and look too hard for details.

Also, we're used to discovering foreshadowing when we look back after something interesting happens. The Talk had several hints leading up to it, ditto the Faye/Sven affair.

[Is it cold in here?]

I've been reading QC since around comic 100, and this comic and the forums discussion made me register for the first time, despite a general dislike of forums.  (No offense to those of you who like them!  Just, y'know.)

None taken. Forums have horrible failure modes and are hard to get right.

Thank you for respectfully explaining things (yes, including the lack of obligation to explain things!).

Welcome to you and the other two new people!

[Fluke]

Just popping in to add that Jeph just said Claire was MtF on his stream for those who have been theorizing

The lip theory is a neat one.

[Near Lurker]

Why is it in general that men aren't drawn with lips, anyway?  Sometimes it's that lips are only drawn when someone's wearing lipstick, but often women are drawn with faint lips even when they aren't supposed to be wearing lipstick, whereas men have none except on the rare occasions they do.  Lips can be pretty obvious; I remember being struck by how much mine stood out when I took off my moustache.

But seriously, I kind of hope Jeph didn't intend that.  All this looking for tells is awful.

[cesariojpn]

But seriously, I kind of hope Jeph didn't intend that.  All this looking for tells is awful.

Awww come on, we haven't gotten to analyzing the text bubbles backwards for clues and satanic messages (or maybe a good pea soup recipe)!! lol

[Catayana]

Why is it in general that men aren't drawn with lips, anyway?  Sometimes it's that lips are only drawn when someone's wearing lipstick, but often women are drawn with faint lips even when they aren't supposed to be wearing lipstick, whereas men have none except on the rare occasions they do.  Lips can be pretty obvious; I remember being struck by how much mine stood out when I took off my moustache.

It's just one of those little details that makes people view a character as male or female. While in real life ladies can have small lips and men can have large lips, it can be fairly hard to draw a male character with large lips, especially ones that aren't very butch, and have them still look male to your audience.

[snubnose]

I've been having trouble keeping up with this thread - it's just moving too quickly.

No kidding.

Warning - while you were reading a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post. 

I havent even started writing said post and I should already "review" it ?

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post. 

Gah ! Just post this dammit !

[Mojo]

They're not twins.

D'oh!  I knew that...

[de_la_Nae]

Yet another long-time trans* reader lured out of the shadows of the Internet over this comic!

Mostly wanted to say thanks for the refreshingly mature discussions, and the links!

Also I must warn you of a terrible fate that may befall us all!
Jeph sez: "OCD IS BAD: Nitpicking and/or placing way too much importance on minutiae while missing the big picture is probably Jeph's biggest pet peeve. Not every little detail is Fraught With Meaning." 

[Soulsynger]

The entire discussion shines an interesting light on this comic.

I think Claire is well set in with whatever she is / calls herself.

[cesariojpn]

The entire discussion shines an interesting light on this comic.

Is it her reaction, or the awkwardness she has in her body language? Call me stupid, but according to one of my Trangender friends, the hormone treatments she's taking pretty much has made her penis unresponsive even to sexual stimulation.

[Soulsynger]

The blush. Dude. The blush. Why do people always go straight for the pelvic reaction? 

I mean seriously... in about 7 pages of heavy discussion I managed to keep my mind far away from anything below the belt... I am just too innocent. °O

[Carl-E]

Oh thank god, I finally caught up.  Well, that's what happens at 4 AM, the thread slows down. 

A little. 



I used to participate in the Penny & Aggie forum a few years back, and remember being thoroughly educated there about gender/sex/sexuality.  I want to commend everyone on the work being done here, and the fact that, though there was some vitriol at first in a few reactions, the overall atmosphere of the forums prevailed.  It's sooo nice to see. 

And welcome to our new posters.  It's an interesting crowd - and I'm glad you've found us. 

Oh, and Jeph's finally working on the next comic.  Wonder where we'll be going from here?

[cesariojpn]

The blush. Dude. The blush. Why do people always go straight for the pelvic reaction? 

I mean seriously... in about 7 pages of heavy discussion I managed to keep my mind far away from anything below the belt... I am just too innocent. °O

Cause when I think of blushing, I don't instantly think of it being an indicator if someone is a biological male/female, or an affont to certain idiotic people with small........minds.

[Soulsynger]

And I think today's comic (sort of) answers most questions about which state Claire is in now.

... still feel the same about the character btw. ... *shrugs*

The blush. Dude. The blush. Why do people always go straight for the pelvic reaction? 
[ ... ]

Cause when I think of blushing, I don't instantly think of it being an indicator if someone is a biological male/female, or an affont to certain idiotic people with small........minds.

It is an indicator of being attracted to/by something IN YOUR MIND. Nevermind the outward biological situation. Actually screw the biological situation, I'm thinking about the psychological stuff here. °O
(Really, I have ZERO interest in the bio-male/female debate right now)

[cesariojpn]

<unnecessary quoting removed by moderator>

Fine, Great, moving along......

[Soulsynger]

I get the feeling someone's kind of pissed at me and I don't understand why.

[Carl-E]

No, it's just cesario. 


Oh, I wanted to mention to the person looking for an adam's apple on Claire...

a) she doesn't have one, and

2) not all men do.  No one in my family (father and 4 boys) does.  And

iii) Some women have pronounced adams apples, though it's unusual - it's related to the growth of the larynx during puberty. 

[Chelicerate]

To those people going through the comics looking for signs of her being a cis male: stop it. It's really not cool.

I know, I know, "but she's only a character!". How you are reacting reflects on how many, many people react to trans* people IRL. And it's embarrassing and infuriating.

Especially to the person who went "Boom: Adams Apple". Stop that shit. Seriously.