Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT: 2392-2396 (25 February- 1 March, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Carl-E:
--- Quote from: Westrim on 25 Feb 2013, 02:33 ---...I'll deliver my opinion that 'trans' is a noun, both in the original Latin and as a colloquial term for any person that has transitioned genders.
--- End quote ---
But that's opinion, and an incorrect one at that. Trans-, in English, is a prefix. It has been "nounified" incorrectly, and is also offensive to those who have problematic gender assignment, mainly by its use as a slur.
--- Quote from: cesariojpn on 25 Feb 2013, 02:20 ---Okay, this is kinda getting on my nerves abit.
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Try thinking of how the insensitivity of those terms gets on the nerves of those who are called them.
--- Quote ---I can't say "She-Male" cause it's derogatory/insulting/misogynist/sexist/I used it wrong/whatever.
I can't say "Crossdresser/Trap" cause it's derogatory/insulting/misogynist/sexist/I used it wrong/whatever.
I can't say "Trans/Transexual/Transvestite/TS" cause it's derogatory/insulting/misogynist/sexist/I used it wrong/whatever.
I can't say "Gender Fluid" cause it's derogatory/insulting/misogynist/sexist/I used it wrong/whatever.
--- End quote ---
Right the first time. Try avoiding those terms and using the ones that have been discussed, extensively, in these very forums!
--- Quote ---I can't even say "Woman/Girl/Madam/Miss/Mrs./Hostess/Mistress/(Insert female pronoun here)" without getting some grief about it!!
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Naah, it hasn't gone that far! :roll:
westrim:
--- Quote from: Carl-E on 25 Feb 2013, 02:47 ---
--- Quote from: Westrim on 25 Feb 2013, 02:33 ---...I'll deliver my opinion that 'trans' is a noun, both in the original Latin and as a colloquial term for any person that has transitioned genders.
--- End quote ---
But that's opinion, and an incorrect one at that. Trans-, in English, is a prefix. It has been "nounified" incorrectly, and is also offensive to those who have problematic gender assignment, mainly by its use as a slur.
--- End quote ---
I can cite sources, if you wish. You wouldn't like me when I cite sources.
References aside, as I said it's a colloquialism, and by nature informal and malleable- it's just as correct as 'y'all'. It's a one syllable noun standing in for a longer noun, quite common and accepted, including the occasional converted prefix. Also, 'trans' in trans fats is not short for anything at all nor a prefix, being a current usage of the Latin term.
As for whether it's offensive or not, I tried to write a response several times, but ultimately nixed them all. The ultimate point is that everything is offensive to someone- and yes, there are some people that will be offended by female pronouns. Some of them are stupid things to be offended by, some suffer guilt by association (see: negro), and some are misinterpreted by uninformed bystanders (as I was reminded a couple weeks ago, the first time I heard someone get called German, I thought it was a grave insult). Some of those interpretations aren't worth my effort tiptoeing around.
Adjamemnon:
Can we have just one meal where you don't talk business?
Barmymoo:
The reason I posted publically was because it could have been almost anyone who made the same mistake, so it was useful to make the correction publically. I didn't expect to have such a strong reaction - I apologise if I offended anyone, as that was not my intention, but I won't apologise for the statement itself because what I said was correct and not offensive.
Westrim, citing sources is viewed very positively on this forum and in certain sections is strongly encouraged.
You're correct that the term "trans" can be a noun, I should have said "trans isn't a noun in this context". When it is being used as a short-form of "transgender" then it is an adjective, because "transgender" is an adjective, when being used to describe people.
It's not about whether certain words can ever be used in a different way - in that specific context, that specific word was playing a specific role as an adjective and was used incorrectly.
I also agree that there can be a point where someone taking offence is ridiculous. But this is not one of those instances. Reducing someone to the prefix describing an aspect of their gender identity is offensive. Try and see it from a different perspective - I am a woman and I happen to have quite large breasts. In a context where such a statement would be relevant, I wouldn't be offended at being referred to as a "large-breasted woman". But if someone referred to me as "a large-breasted" without the word woman, I'd feel that was rude. As Paul said, it would be equally correct to remove the article and just say "large-breasted" or "trans".
Honestly, it was only partly about the actual content of the word (in that when there's the possibility of a mistake offending someone, I think it's more important to point it out than if it was a simple typo which no one would be upset by). The overall point was one of grammar; I teach english grammar, it's something I care about.
I just looked a bit more into the term "trans fat" and to see if I can find any instances of trans being a noun. Trans fat is so called because the fatty acids are "trans isomer", meaning "between" (I don't know what an isomer is, but that word itself is a noun - trans is describing it, and the two words together form what I call a "noun phrase" but I don't know if there's an academic term for the concept). Trans is just latin for "between", which isn't a noun - it's strictly a preposition, but it serves a descriptive purpose.
Vurogj:
--- Quote from: de_la_Nae on 25 Feb 2013, 00:47 --- enticing your customers' imaginations with large amounts of vivid data?
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If the subtle pun in there was intentional, you are brilliant. If it wasn't, er, oh look, a mongoose!
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