Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT: 2878-2882 (19-23 January 2015)
Drachenfel:
--- Quote from: Stoon on 22 Jan 2015, 11:11 ---Hanners is the only one who's exploded and not put up with Faye's shit. Hanners will sort Faye out.
--- End quote ---
OMG this reminds me why I love Hanners so much!!
eschaton:
FWIW, I'm not saying that Marten couldn't reach the end of his rope eventually. But it would be out of character for him to be anything but supportive in the shorter run. By which I mean he won't kick her out, and will continue talking to her, even if he doesn't always tell her exactly what she wants to hear.
Now of course, he could tell her it wasn't a good idea to drink on the job, inferring that he agrees with Dora that she should have been fired. In turn this could cause Faye to explode at him. But Faye couldn't burn the bridge all at once, because he'll rationalize that she was just drunk and upset, and didn't mean it, yadda yadda.
Honestly though, Marten can be a dumbass, but I just don't see him prodding the angry hornets nest which is Faye right now. He has more sense than to tell Faye something she knows already, given she fucked up in such a spectacularly obvious way. That's what Angus will do if he comes back into the picture again for a bit. :-D
I think newcomers to the comic somewhat discount how strong the bond between Faye and Marten is. Faye has said several times that Marten is her best friend, and she couldn't consider losing him. He's far more important to her than Sven or Angus ever were. And while it's harder to determine with Martin, since he's less expressive, I think he feels bound to Faye in as strong of a matter. No matter how much Faye toyed with him in the first 500 strips, she basically created his entire social life, since he had nothing but Steve and Pintsize before. And she was there for him in many other ways as he began developing as a character - particularly through his breakup with Dora. The Faye/Martin bond, even if it is now totally platonic, is the core of the comic. And it's one bridge which I don't foresee Faye burning on purpose (unlike Dora, who, despite being her friend, was always a target of resentment).
ReindeerFlotilla:
--- Quote from: Conzy on 22 Jan 2015, 04:35 ---In my experience, reducing a discussion to semantics is a sure fire way to create tension in said discussion. I'd say that it's pretty obvious that Penguin47 is saying that he felt sad that the right thing to do was to put his dog down, but was in no way going to feel like it was his fault, due to it being the right thing to do. That's a healthy way to approach an unenviable task. I can see this going the same way your discussion went a couple days ago with a poster whose name I can't remember, and in both cases I'm afraid I think you're being a little overly-critical of people's uses of language, seeing as you obviously have a background in philosophy, Reindeer. Like I said, when in discussion with those who might not have the same background it would probably lead to fewer arguments if you were to take people up on the spirit they have made their points in, rather than the specific philosophical definition of some of the words they have used.
--- End quote ---
A: I have no background in philosophy, beyond thinking about the stuff.
B: This becomes an infinite semantic regression. I didn't say "You must feel guilty when situations like X happen." That was a semantic distiction introduced by Penguin47. So who is "wrong" in invoking a semantic argument?
C: The issue you speak of from the last few days involved BenRG and had to do with BenRG deciding that I was upset when I wasn't. This makes me upset. If you wish to psycho-analyse me, there's your symptom. I rather dislike people presuming to frame my emotional state. To suggest I am upset on the basis that I don't agree with you is, as I told BenRG at the outset, patronizing and dismissive. It could be a lot of other things, but to speculate as to what those are would require that I presume to know someone else's feelings/state of mind. (Unless you're talking about the question of axioms and beliefs, which is pretty much a semantic discussion from the outset, and another case where any upset assigned to me exists only in the reader's head).
Everyone is capable of presumption, or communication missteps. Everyone injects their own tone into what other people write (unless they read everything in Morgan Freeman's voice, which--thinking about it--would probably make the world a better place if everyone did it). I've been on the internet since pretty much the time when the World Wide Web became a thing. I've been up and down the tone policing debates, and there's no winning response. No matter how you communicate, there's someone out there who is going to take what you say and inject something you didn't say into it. Sometimes, it's malicious, sometimes it's just what they understood you to be talking about.
For example, in the case BenRG, I wrote a passing objection to the idea that Marten would storm anywhere. BenRG seemed (seemed: I have no actually knowledge of his state of mind) to assume that I was arguing that Marten would not be upset. I took his initial responses as objections to my objection, when--in reality--we weren't on the same subject. I only became aware of the disconnect when the rather left field accusation of emotional disturbance cropped up. Up to that point I wasn't aware there was anything to be emotionally invested in.
Call it semantics, on my part. I can't say you're wrong. But I'd point out, again, that I didn't say that guilt is mandatory, but Penguin47 (and by extension, MoM) framed the quote they used to say that. That framing is semantics as well--finding a reading of what I wrote and disagreeing with it. I didn't say what BenRG seemed to be defending against. Trying to clear that up is semantics as well.
I'm not accusing them of anything. I just finished pointing out that everyone understands what they read as their own interpretation. But if someone interprets what you write as something you didn't actually say, exactly how do you point that out without invoking semantics? It seems to me that there's nothing wrong with semantics, unless you are splitting hairs in order to create conflict. In my case, my intent is to clarify what I wrote when it seems to me that someone has attached meaning to it I didn't intend.
I'm not sure I can be any more clear than that about it. I can be abrupt, but that's decades of internet (Frak, I'm old. At least I can only date back as far as the first years of the WWW). I'm not extolling rudeness, just cutting to the chase. And it seems to me that the chase, here is that we've now reached the point where the topic has lost all relevance to QC and is now about me. I came here to post something relevant about addiction, but it seems to me that it would be overwhelmed. Of course, I didn't have to respond. My choice. But I'll save the relevant stuff for another time). I don't presume to moderate, but it seems to me that this is not the appropriate forum for the topic of me. There's PM's and stuff for that--though this isn't an invitation to PM. I've said everything I have to say so I likely won't bother reading anything more on the subject, unless it's handed down by a mod in an official capacity. I'm tired of it (from my perspective, it's other people becoming bizarrely and inexplicably upset. I'm just aware that I don't know what's actually motivating them, so I'm not going to cast aspersions). It's a no win situation, and I'm not James Kirk.
themacnut:
--- Quote from: eschaton on 22 Jan 2015, 08:56 --- As others noted, I just don't see how she will get Marten so mad he won't put up with her shit in the shorter run. Marten is someone with great patience, and very submissive - he's a textbook enabler. And he already has a dynamic where he's willing to do whatever is needed to support Faye. Faye drunkenly trying to seduce Marten out of loneliness would be ugly and awkward, but it wouldn't sunder their friendship any more than Martin doing inverse hurt things. Faye would need to be an unemployed drunken bum for months before Marten would start setting limits - and even then I wonder if he'd hit up his mom for some money rather than kick Faye out.
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And this is why I believe the SS Clairten may be in danger of running aground on Drunken Faye Reef. Marten knows that his friend Faye is drinking because she's in pain, and him being the kind of guy he is, he'll try to help Faye however he can. Faye won't hesitate to soak up ALL the help Marten tries to provide, especially if it enables her to keep drinking (which it almost certainly will). This being the very beginning of his and Claire's relationship, Claire may object to Marten giving so much attention to someone apparently determined to drink themselves into the gutter (as Claire may think). Also, Marten being Marten, it may take him a long time to realize he has to set boundaries on what he does for Faye, and even longer to actually put those boundaries in place. Meanwhile, his erstwhile girlfriend gets more and more annoyed at the time and attention sink drunken Faye is becoming.
This conflict may get serious enough where Marten may find himself forced to choose between Faye and Claire, and whoever he decides against will then proceed to remove themselves from his life. Considering the history between him and Faye, and the fact that Claire is a relative newcomer...it doesn't look good for Claire.
pendrake:
[Faye]: Help? HELP? I don't need any fuckin' help.
~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~
As a former Social Worker, I heard this line (still do hear it, sadly) far too many times, with far too many tragic results.
When does one hit Rock Bottom? It is not about getting help by then.
One of the clearest signs of hitting Rock bottom...? When you have gotten so low that finally admit you need help... Only to discover no one is around offering it to you any more... :-(
Warning - while you were typing new replies have been posted. You may wish to review how you used to be a regular here. What happened, dude?
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