Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT: 2878-2882 (19-23 January 2015)
MooskiNet:
--- Quote from: themacnut on 22 Jan 2015, 11:50 ---This conflict may get serious enough where Marten may find himself forced to choose between Faye and Claire, and whoever he decides against will then proceed to remove themselves from his life. Considering the history between him and Faye, and the fact that Claire is a relative newcomer...it doesn't look good for Claire.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, Imma have to put my chips on the other square. I think if Faye does anything to insert herself between Marten and Claire, the spine he's been developing for the last 80 strips is going to turn to steel and Faye's going to lose (again).
plusorminus:
--- Quote from: themacnut on 22 Jan 2015, 11:50 ---
This conflict may get serious enough where Marten may find himself forced to choose between Faye and Claire, and whoever he decides against will then proceed to remove themselves from his life. Considering the history between him and Faye, and the fact that Claire is a relative newcomer...it doesn't look good for Claire.
--- End quote ---
I agree with all of what you wrote, themacnut, but particularly this passage. Claire does not pull her punches. Marten is her first boyfriend and she will not want to rock the boat too much, but I can't see her co-signing Marten deciding to spend a lot of time on Faye at this point. I could see Claire feeling that Faye's problems are self-inflicted. She is the one who decided she didn't love Angus enough to follow him to New York. She is the one who decided to crawl into the bottle rather than face her situation. I can't think that Claire would be all right with Marten being Faye's enabler. Dora allowed it and resented it, as has been pointed out, but she was also Faye's friend and wanted to help her.
I think that that whoever said that the title of this being the Great Schism means more than just Faye and Dora is right. I think that all of the months that Marten wondered about his rudderless life will culminate in his decision that he needs to break free of Faye and her problems. I don't mean he'll drop her as a friend, just that he can't let her issues consume him and he will move away from her similarly to the way he moved away from Steve. I disagree, themacnut, that Claire will be the loser. I think Faye will be. I feel Marten understands that if he allows Faye to drag him into her mess, he'll be back at square one. He's growing and Faye is regressing. Possibly she'll get pulled out of it, but I think that in this arc, we will see Marten actually growing a pair and deciding to do what is best for him. Claire is what's best for him and I think he is starting to realize that.
ETA: MooskiNet's post says what I wanted to say much more succintly and much better put!
Kugai:
If this thing doesn't go Thermonuclear by Friday, it'll be a miracle of biblical proportions
ReindeerFlotilla:
--- Quote from: themacnut on 22 Jan 2015, 11:50 ---This conflict may get serious enough where Marten may find himself forced to choose between Faye and Claire, and whoever he decides against will then proceed to remove themselves from his life. Considering the history between him and Faye, and the fact that Claire is a relative newcomer...it doesn't look good for Claire.
--- End quote ---
And this is why I'd vote on Claire. Well, two reasons more: First, Claire was recently Jeph's favorite character. It would be an extremely odd (but actually kind of heroic in a writerly sort of way) if Jeph put his fav on a bus. I'm assuming Jeph is human and probably won't do that.
Second, Claire is the single trans character in Jeph's comic and Jeph is committed to "doing it right." Making the trans character disposable is a big risk.
I've struggled with the same issue in creating a trans character. From my perspective, the character is just a character. A really important one. But looking at the story from the outside, I can see how the culmination of another character's story arc will (almost certainly not just possibly, it will be taken this way) seem like the trans character is getting shat upon in a way that disrespects trans people. I can't do anything to mitigate that without giving away almost the whole plot. I could give that part of the story to a different character, but that would basically reduce the trans character to token status. I could make the character not trans, but... Well, the whole point of the trans character is that the trans aspect isn't what defines them (it does have a distant impact on the story, and informs the character) but it's not a plot driver. Also, this character has been in development forever. I was kind of bummed when Claire "beat me to the punch" with the whole trans but no big deal thing).
So, for all I know Jeph is going to put Claire on the bus, because he's gone down the same road and come to the same conclusion--dodging the plot elements in favor of the trans character's transness is just as bad as playing the trans character for a spectacle. But it's a damned hard decision to make, and I don't see the necessity of putting anyone on a bus, just yet.
On the other hand, if a bus is ordained, I can see Faye on it. It's the kind of thing people in bad decision spirals do. Disappear only to show up later totally used up, or in dire need of help getting out of jam they made for themselves. Or both.
edit: Plusorminus said better than I.
edit edit: typo
eschaton:
--- Quote from: themacnut on 22 Jan 2015, 11:50 ---And this is why I believe the SS Clairten may be in danger of running aground on Drunken Faye Reef. Marten knows that his friend Faye is drinking because she's in pain, and him being the kind of guy he is, he'll try to help Faye however he can. Faye won't hesitate to soak up ALL the help Marten tries to provide, especially if it enables her to keep drinking (which it almost certainly will). This being the very beginning of his and Claire's relationship, Claire may object to Marten giving so much attention to someone apparently determined to drink themselves into the gutter (as Claire may think). Also, Marten being Marten, it may take him a long time to realize he has to set boundaries on what he does for Faye, and even longer to actually put those boundaries in place. Meanwhile, his erstwhile girlfriend gets more and more annoyed at the time and attention sink drunken Faye is becoming.
This conflict may get serious enough where Marten may find himself forced to choose between Faye and Claire, and whoever he decides against will then proceed to remove themselves from his life. Considering the history between him and Faye, and the fact that Claire is a relative newcomer...it doesn't look good for Claire.
--- End quote ---
Faye was very insecure when Marten started dating Dora, but at that time the romantic feelings between them were not fully buried, and they had been friends for a much shorter period of time. While she's going through a bad spell now, I don't think she'll worry about Claire stealing Marten away for quite awhile. Not unless he starts talking about moving out or something, which (judging by the flow of comic time) isn't going to happen for 500+ strips. The worst thing that would happen is Marten will be going out on dates fairly often. But even here, given Claire lives at home, it's more likely that Claire will be at the apartment than vice versa in the future.
Faye will, of course, be resentful of Marten's happiness. But Faye has always had a great grasp on reality when it comes to other people, just not herself. I can't think of one time Faye seriously misinterpreted the intentions of anyone in the strip (though I'm sure people will find some links). She doesn't jump to wrong, paranoid conclusions the way Dora does anyway.
--- Quote from: plusorminus on 22 Jan 2015, 12:08 ---I think that that whoever said that the title of this being the Great Schism means more than just Faye and Dora is right. I think that all of the months that Marten wondered about his rudderless life will culminate in his decision that he needs to break free of Faye and her problems. I don't mean he'll drop her as a friend, just that he can't let her issues consume him and he will move away from her similarly to the way he moved away from Steve. I disagree, themacnut, that Claire will be the loser. I think Faye will be. I feel Marten understands that if he allows Faye to drag him into her mess, he'll be back at square one. He's growing and Faye is regressing. Possibly she'll get pulled out of it, but I think that in this arc, we will see Marten actually growing a pair and deciding to do what is best for him. Claire is what's best for him and I think he is starting to realize that.
--- End quote ---
Aside from Faye jerking Marten around in terms of a potential love interest in the first 500 strips (and a little bit of residual possessiveness thereafter), what exactly has Faye done to this point which is emotionally draining to Marten? When did she ask him to choose between emotional growth and supporting her? It would be just weird for Marten to turn his back now, when she's in the wrong but clearly needs support, because it's not like he's been continually fucked over in recent years.
Edit: Bottom line is while you might think that Faye is a shitty person, and was a shitty employee, she has been a great friend to Marten since around the thousandth strip. You cannot undo all that overnight, or even in 200-300 strips.
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