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Marten

6 (9%)

Faye

18 (26.9%)

Dora

8 (11.9%)

Hannelore

8 (11.9%)

Momo

7 (10.4%)

Marigold

3 (4.5%)

Claire

11 (16.4%)

Other (please specify in comment)

6 (9%)

Total Members Voted: 63

Voting closed: 29 Apr 2015, 05:04

[Is it cold in here?]

Ms. Reed, "tactfully"?

[Gladstone]

It could happen!

[bhtooefr]

However, Jeph explicitly edited out an example of her being tactless about this very issue.

So, I suspect Claire will end up pre-empting it to avoid triggering readers.

[wlewisiii]

It's a snek!!!

[valkygrrl]

Now we know Sam has seen the whaleboner.

[Gladstone]

Sam and Claire Sam and Claire SamandCLAAAAAAAAAAIIIRRRRE

(It could happen!)

[Rghfrgl]

More importantly.

Claire and reptiles.

[Gladstone]

She and Sam can bond while hiding toads in Clinton's sock drawer.

[K1dmor]

 At least it's not a co-bra.

[Rghfrgl]

Fang Island isn't a band reference. Marten just keeps running into snakes.

[jwhouk]

(whispers)

Badgerbadgerbadgerbadgerbadgerbadgerbadgerbadgerbadgerbadger It's a snaaaaake! A snaaake! A snaake! ooooh

[Perfectly Reasonable]

Coat rack coat rack coat rack coat rack coat rack coat track....
Marten hates that coat rack and the name "Marten Tiberius Reed!" for the same reason....

That room so needs to be recreated in Minecraft....

[Perfectly Reasonable]

There are only 4 venomous varieties of snake in North America. Little Buddy is not one of them. So this is a test.
Veronica did not freak out or call 911. She saw LB for what he is and slid him into a jar for future reference.
So from Sam's point of view, Veronica has passed.

[jheartney]

It's a snek!!!

[Kugai]

When it grows up Veronica can have it made into a whip



*Ducks*

[celticgeek]

The frogsnakelord strikes!

[SubaruStephen]

Nah, she would have plenty of whips already... And snake skin is a lousy material to make a whip out of anyway.

She'll probably use Little Buddy in a reenactment of the Britney Spears "Toxic" video in front of Marten's friends and new GF, causing him so much embarrassment he implodes.

[Is it cold in here?]

Poking around in your dad's girlfriend's underwear drawer is not exactly polite, though I can't condemn the curiosity.

Why not hand over the snake in person, though, as you would with a ceremonial frog?

[amykathleen]

I'm a day late in commenting about the whale penis, but I wonder how many whale penises Veronica has.  (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2681)  Or is the one on the table the same one that was her door knocker in California?

[BenRG]

So, it's confirmed that Sam is a dyed-in-the wool tomboy. She likes the less cuddly side of wildlife, playing in the woods and doesn't do 'bathing'. I'm already seeing a scene where Veronica, Faye and maybe Claire ambush her and give her a thorough scrubbing down so she looks and smells acceptable for some important event.

I'm also seeing Jim, when asked to describe her saying: "Distinctive features? Uh... smear of dirt on the bridge of her nose!"

Poor Marten doesn't look like he knows how to deal with the Good Stepmother Snake! The implication is that Veronica expects him to 'deal with it' for her. However, I suspect that Sam expects Veronica and her to release it together in the woods as a sort of ritual of mutual acceptance. As Veronica says: challenging.

Claire is being reminded of just how weird are the people Marten knows!

[Rghfrgl]

Poking around in your dad's girlfriend's underwear drawer is not exactly polite, though I can't condemn the curiosity.

She may have left it in the living room or something and it just wondered in there.

Perhaps it's a trouser snake. 

[BenRG]

I really wouldn't be terribly surprised if Veronica already knows or suspects Claire is trans. Apparently she's known trans people, so she might guess.

FWIW, the appearance of Good Stepmother Snake makes me think that Marten and Sam will be sent off into the woods on a release mission whilst Veronica and Claire share some girl talk.

I can see Veronica being devastatingly plain-spoken. She will demand to know if Claire has told Marten if she is trans and warn that she won't tolerate Claire pursuing a relationship under 'false pretenses'. She doesn't disapprove as much as insist on candour and honesty. She and Henry could have avoided a lot of heartbreak if he'd told her that he was gay earlier in their relationship. After she's satisfied that Claire has been honest with Marten, she'll relax and start going on about how good Marten is with Sam and how he'd make a great husband and father.

Veronica will then round off what has been already a traumatic day for Claire by giving her a lot of sartorial tips (street and bedroom wear) and by giving her a brochure from an adoption agency with the snarled instruction: "GRAND-BABIES!"

[Gladstone]

I can see Veronica being devastatingly plain-spoken. She will demand to know if Claire has told Marten if she is trans and warn that she won't tolerate Claire pursuing a relationship under 'false pretenses'. She doesn't disapprove as much as insist on candour and honesty.

No.

No no no no no.

Absolutely not.

Veronica doesn't know how intimate Claire and Marten have been yet, but confronting her about her trans status as if Marten wouldn't know already falls squarely into the awful "trap" stereotype about trans people that Jeph is probably VERY keen to avoid. 

tl;dr: No.

[BenRG]

@Gladstone,
I respect your opinion. However, I genuinely think that my suggestion is in-character for Veronica. She knows better than most about playing roles and, after all the bad experiences Marten has had in relationships, she doesn't want him hurt again. I'm sure that, after Claire tells her that she volunteered the information upfront, she'll be fine.

I just think that it would be good to have Claire facing a challenge based on good intentions and love rather than fear and malice.

[Gladstone]

Veronica confronting Claire alone and demanding to know if Marten knows yet, and warning her that "she won't tolerate Claire pursuing a relationship under 'false pretenses'" is not "a challenge based on good intentions and love."

And it is way past my bedtime, so that's all I'm going to say about this.

[Thrillho]

And there's a real lack of appreciation for the difference between art and porn here.

That difference which exists only to perpetuate the gap between respectable society and sex workers, based on misogynistic systems of sexual norms developed over thousands of years of fatherhood-centered cultural mythopoeia, and which to this day serves as the key ingredient in the structural, social and legal oppression of the women and men involved in the artistic creation of pornography?

Ah, damn, that came out wrong.

What I mean is: Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

Taking the wider point out of this, you're actually agreeing with my larger point, namely that 'dude it's just a naked person, no biggie.'

[swapna]

@Gladstone,
I respect your opinion. However, I genuinely think that my suggestion is in-character for Veronica. She knows better than most about playing roles and, after all the bad experiences Marten has had in relationships, she doesn't want him hurt again. I'm sure that, after Claire tells her that she volunteered the information upfront, she'll be fine.

I just think that it would be good to have Claire facing a challenge based on good intentions and love rather than fear and malice.

I don't think Veronica would be challenging Claire - she might have a deeper insight (for example, know not to ask about grandkids). Well, let's put it like this - challenging Claire wouldn't be out of character for Veronica, at all. That woman loves to embarrass people and would never hold back her opinion. Problem is, Claire will never face anybody like this in the comic - Jeph's not going there. She might give Claire a heads-up that she knows and is glad for both of them.
On the other hand -> look at how Claire's drawn. Her hips are way wider than her shoulders and so on - we're given no indicators that she wouldn't pass, at all, so Veronica might not know.

[BenRG]

On the other hand -> look at how Claire's drawn. Her hips are way wider than her shoulders and so on - we're given no indicators that she wouldn't pass, at all, so Veronica might not know.

I'm seem to remember reading someone in the know on this forum saying that this is an advantage of an early transition. In many ways, Claire has been very fortunate.

If Veronica does already know, it would be due to some kind of subconscious 'tell'; behaviours that Veronica has seen in her various transwoman friends and colleagues in the past. I have no idea whether such a thing actually exists.

What I really, really want is for Hurricane Veronica to drag poor Claire out to the various clothes shops, insisting that her current everyday sartorial choices do not suit her and that she knows just the thing. Next Friday, Marten and Sam are walking back to Veronica's apartment, agreeing that Veronica is cool, or as cool as "old people" (Sam's phrase) can get. Veronica is outside and greets them, saying that she and Claire have just got back themselves.

Next panel is Claire in an outfit that flatters her in all the right way. Naturally, she looks bashful (playing with her hair and posed nervously).

Last panel, Sam is making a 'gross' expression. "Ew! He's started drooling!"

Veronica winks at her. "Mission accomplished, kiddo! You'll understand in a few years time!"

[Thrillho]

I don't for a second believe that Veronica would be anywhere near this shitty about it.

[bhtooefr]

I think we're running into a conflict between what's in character for Veronica (there's a strip that some have interpreted as potentially being trans* erasure, combined with the original version of 2379), and what's in character for Jeph, really.

Jeph isn't going to portray Veronica making an insensitive comment about Claire's ability to biologically mother children, even though he likely thinks it's in character for her, because of the effect that it could have on his readers (because he's been there with 2379, and edited it to remove exactly that). And, I believe Jeph's outright said that Claire's status won't be used for drama.

Nobody's outing Claire even if it would be completely in character for them to do so, because Jeph won't allow them to, I'd guess. It'll be tricky for him to write that in a believable way, but he is a damn good writer, and I'm sure he'll figure it out. Like I guessed earlier, it'll most likely involve Claire coming out before they can out her.

Also... if Claire and Marten wanted a biological kid? I doubt they will, Jeph's had a NO BABIES stance, but it could be done (he's hinted at a relaxation of that stance with Faye of all people). They'd need a surrogate to carry it, but this technology is being developed in our world in a couple of different ways (one way which would require an egg donor, then the DNA would effectively be replaced before it would be fertilized; the other way actually involving forcing a type of stem cell to differentiate into an egg instead of sperm, and then that could be fertilized). Then consider that the QC-verse has E-C, and if Claire and Marten wanted it, Hannelore would likely make damn sure they were the first ones to get it.

[Thrillho]

I don't understand why people think it would be in Veronica's character to be abrasive about such things.

[BenRG]

I don't understand why people think it would be in Veronica's character to be abrasive about such things.

She's not abrasive; she's just the sort of personality who says exactly what is on her mind and (and this is the key) thinks about how others will react to what she's saying later if she does so at all. She's a thousand times worse when buzzed but, even when sober, she doesn't really seem to think ahead about what she's saying.

[Lubricus]

That has mostly been demonstrated by her interaction with Marten, so it might not apply to others.

[Thrillho]

Well yeah. I am a thousand times more rude to the people that know me really well.

[Detachable Felix]

Well yeah. I am a thousand times more rude to the people that know me really well.

We love you too, douchenozzle.

[cabbagehut]

I just think that it would be good to have Claire facing a challenge based on good intentions and love rather than fear and malice.

Trans people face plenty of "well-intentioned" challenges (along with plenty of less-than-nice ones), so I think it would be a stretch to say that even in this universe, Claire has never had anyone make an ignorant, but innocent comment that was shitty. 

However, anyone demanding to know about your genitalia, body structure, or whether or not you inform people about it is not good intentions, it's not love, and it's not something that should be condoned.  We don't go around asking cis people the exact configuration of their genitals and whether or not they've told people what they "really" are, so we shouldn't be doing it to trans people, either.  I think Gladstone is correct in that this plays into the "trap" idea, which is really offensive and not true.  It suggests Claire has some "real" identity that she isn't disclosing, and what she sees herself as and how she presents herself to the world isn't true because of the possible way her body looks under her clothes (which we, the audience, know nothing about).  Claire owes it to no one to tell them about the configuration of her body unless she so chooses, just like any other woman.

Veronica may be abrasive and unpleasant about a lot of things, but I would hope that issues relating to sexuality and identity would be something she's more intimately acquainted with.  Certainly, in her line of work, she's probably met people struggling to reconcile their desires, expressions, and lives with the expectations of the world around them, and hopefully, someone who's seen that up close wouldn't be so callous as to corner someone and demand to know intimate details about them.

[SubaruStephen]

That has mostly been demonstrated by her interaction with Marten, so it might not apply to others.

It does

[Lubricus]

Honestly, Jane is almost as much family to Veronica as Marten is. That doesn't count.

[BenRG]

That has mostly been demonstrated by her interaction with Marten, so it might not apply to others.

Not really; throughout the wedding arc, Veronica needled Claire on a couple of occasions. She was mostly using Claire as a 'straight man' for her interactions with Marten but it's clear that she didn't really mind whether or not Claire wanted to be part of this embarrassing display. She was also sassy around Marten's other friends on other occasions; yes, mostly humiliating Marten but not really caring how the others might feel about this.

I think that the summation was Veronica describing something wholly inappropriate as 'delightfully deviant'. She just likes pushing the envelope in her interpersonal interactions and she seems to have an innate talent to judge people's personality to find either people who are too timid to push back (i.e. Marten and possibly Claire) or like it and respond in kind in a way that she likes (i.e. Jim). FWIW, I think that she would say that she doesn't go out to offend and I don't think she does. She's just one of those people who isn't so hot at judging what is and is not upsetting to others so long as she enjoys it.

[Thrillho]

There is a huge difference between pushing the envelope in personal interaction for funsies and 'does my son know what you have between your legs?'

Maybe I'm taking this a little personally because I also push the envelope in such a way, but I also know where the lines are.

[BenRG]

Maybe; we'll see, I guess.

[jheartney]

While I think that coming out early as trans to your SO is probably wise (particularly if anatomy is going to make it obvious), it's not a moral obligation. I strongly doubt that Veronica (or any of the rest of the cast aside from Clinton, Clairemom and Emily) have any idea that Claire is trans. But even if any have suspicions, they should keep them to themselves, Veronica included.

WRT Veronica, she can be transgressive, but I don't see her pushing such a conventionally moralistic line with Claire or Marten, even if she were to address it at all (which I don't think she would).

[BenRG]

I think I should emphasise (mostly because I haven't clearly stated it so far) that the broader storline idea I was working from is that Veronica doesn't have a problem with Claire at all. What she's worried about is the corrosive effect that secrets have on relationships. She knows that from her personal experience and she didn't want Claire to make the same mistake.

My idea was that Veronica had guessed Henry was gay but had kept her peace about the whole thing. There was a baby coming and having a person who wanted her for her as opposed to the carefully-manufactured lie that that Veronica Vance was intoxicating. The problem is, the longer she and Henry didn't confront it, the worse the eventual pain in the end.

As I said above, she doesn't want Claire (whom she obviously considers a perfectly sweet girl) to fall into the same trap of letting a sleeping dog lie that very probably will bite you when you're unprepared if you don't tackle it carefully and early.

While I think that coming out early as trans to your SO is probably wise (particularly if anatomy is going to make it obvious), it's not a moral obligation.

Additionally, I think that your average transperson would find it terrifying, especially if they have a niggling fear of rejection the way that Strip 2891 strongly indicates Claire does.

All Veronica would have wanted in my scenario is to help, if she could.

[Aziraphale]

I just think that it would be good to have Claire facing a challenge based on good intentions and love rather than fear and malice.

A: You could argue that she already has in her relationship with Marten from the lake house arc 'til now. Not saying that either one's in love with the other yet, but both her and Marten's actions have been motivated by varying levels of compassion, infatuation, passion, et cetera, rather than negativity. But there've still been plenty of challenges for both of them, with more presumably yet to come.

B: You know what they say about good intentions. And even if you've never heard the expression, I'm sure you've been on the receiving end of someone doing something dumb/hurtful/thoughtless because they "only wanted to help" and genuinely thought they were. Careful what you wish for.

[ASB84]

Given what we've seen Veronica do and say in the past, I think it's more likely that she embarrasses Claire (and possibly Marten) with sexual advice that you really don't want to hear from, or discuss with, your significant other's mother (or in Marten's case, your own mother). Nothing offensive to Claire as a trans individual, or offensive to anyone in general, but certainly uncomfortable and awkward...delivered cheerfully and with the best of intentions, of course.

[jheartney]

What she's worried about is the corrosive effect that secrets have on relationships. She knows that from her personal experience and she didn't want Claire to make the same mistake.

In that case the way to address it would be to talk about her own experience with secrets in a relationship, and let the young couple connect the dots, rather than barreling in explicitly with the trans issue. But my sense of Veronica is that she wouldn't even do this. Remember in this strip, Veronica's all for jumping in and taking a risk. She doesn't strike me as the type to be worrying about minor details like is somebody trans.

[themacnut]

So, it's confirmed that Sam is a dyed-in-the wool tomboy. She likes the less cuddly side of wildlife, playing in the woods and doesn't do 'bathing'.

(Emphasis mine)

Which goes to show that Sam hasn't discovered boys yet. Or rather, she hasn't discovered that boys generally don't like stinky girls.

[Method of Madness]

And Gareth's too old for her

[Kugai]

 

[Thrillho]

...I really feel like given how many newer posters are in this subsection, that's going to come across SUPER creepy.