Topic: WCDT 2976-2980 (8 - 12 June 2015) (Read 29678 times)

BenRG · « **on:** 07 Jun 2015, 07:36 »

We're on quite a cliff-hanger right now! How will Claire respond to Faye's ultimatum? Positively, or pathetically? Will Marten finally take a strong line of Faye's attitude towards friendships? Or will Jeph get trapped in New York and we have a week of Yelling Birds?

Seriously, I'm still wedded to the idea of Claire turning up and insisting that she'll fight to protect Marten from Faye. Not only would it be cute (and even Faye is likely to find it funny), it might make Faye ask questions about her attitude and how other people react to her 'quirks'.

Y'know... we are close to strip 3000 and the whole Faye thing just insists on getting heavier with every arc focussed on her. Might she decide to move out of the apartment on her own initiative? Might Marten throw her out after she hits Claire or something? Might something else happen that changes the balance of the characters and the strip forever? Or will it just be another strip that coincidentally has three zeros in its number?

Moderator Comment Took the liberty of fixing the date for ya - Thrillho

Zebediah · « **Reply #1 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 07:39 »

Oh, she'll fight. She might even win. Redheads are fierce in a fight, regardless of size.

Besides, at Faye's current level of intoxication it wouldn't take much to put her down.

celticgeek · « **Reply #2 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 08:21 »

(8 - 12 July 2015) ?????

Mr_Rose · « **Reply #3 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 08:37 »

Quote from: celticgeek on 07 Jun 2015, 08:21

(8 - 12 July 2015) ?????

What?
Did you forget to set your calendar forward again?

cesium133 · « **Reply #4 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 08:44 »

Everyone always forgets that there's a leap month every 2015 years.

Zebediah · « **Reply #5 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 09:28 »

Damn that Y2KXV problem.

Kugai · « **Reply #6 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 12:36 »

The Matrix has you

Omega Entity · « **Reply #7 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 12:49 »

Quote from: Zebediah on 07 Jun 2015, 07:39

Besides, at Faye's current level of intoxication it wouldn't take much to put her down.

I dunno. Never underestimate the power of drunk-strength.

swapna · « **Reply #8 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 13:09 »

Quote from: Omega Entity on 07 Jun 2015, 12:49

Quote from: Zebediah on 07 Jun 2015, 07:39
Besides, at Faye's current level of intoxication it wouldn't take much to put her down.

I dunno. Never underestimate the power of drunk-strength.

Yeah. And Faye has more mass, so her punches have an advantage. Also, I hope Claire feels bad for hanging up on Marten and apologises or something.

Thrillho · « **Reply #9 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 14:46 »

Most interested I've been in a week's worth of strips in a lonnnng time.

chaospersonified · « **Reply #10 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 15:48 »

Definitely interested in Claireten's first fight, which is, I think what this is.

Rghfrgl · « **Reply #11 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 16:11 »

I think the fights been diffused by Faye.

chaospersonified · « **Reply #12 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 16:24 »

Quote from: Rghfrgl on 07 Jun 2015, 16:11

I think the fights been diffused by Faye.

I dunno. Marten still lied to Claire, and we don't know what Claire's response will be

Is it cold in here? · « **Reply #13 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 17:00 »

He was economical with the truth.

Omega Entity · « **Reply #14 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 17:07 »

Indeed. Nothing Marten said to Claire was untrue.

chaospersonified · « **Reply #15 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 17:10 »

Literal truth is different from perceived truth. Perception of deception makes a person just as angry.

Method of Madness · « **Reply #16 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 17:42 »

How the hell did Marten lie? At all? Also, what makes you think Claire would fight anyone?

chaospersonified · « **Reply #17 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 17:59 »

Quote from: Method of Madness on 07 Jun 2015, 17:42

How the hell did Marten lie? At all? Also, what makes you think Claire would fight anyone?

Like I said, it's not about what was done, but what was perceived. As to Claire fighting, there's no chance of that, not physically at least. I expect her guns to be blazing when she arrives, though quickly disarmed.

ReindeerFlotilla · « **Reply #18 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 18:11 »

He didn't lie. He just didn't tell the whole truth.

Now, some would say a half-truth is as good as a lie. I'm guessing those people would also think the justice system usually works to serve justice, rather than expediency. It turns out that half-truths make up a lion's share of tact. When you need to communicate something but don't feel you have the right to be blunt, or when the person you're talking about is in the room with you, or when you need to communicate something related to another thing, but that other thing is potentially private information you don't think you should share.

Claire might be one of those people. She's shown that trait when it comes to the sanctity of libraries. I don't see that as a sensible lead-in to a continuing issue, though. Maybe 1 or 2 gag strips, but Claire has also shown that once she's had a chance to say her piece, she is willing to hear the other side. She may not agree, but she doesn't seem to hold grudges.

As I see it, it all on Marten. Claire was hurt. Whether it was reasonable for her to be hurt is up for grabs, but it is, IMO, a mistake to try and make "reasonable" and "emotion" work like chocolate and peanut butter. Or Chocolate and bacon. Or Austrian accented Austrailian English.

It's not that the two are polar opposites, much like the examples that followed. They are highly interrelated, in fact. Emotion is all the feels. Reason is, fundamentally, when you're willing to be critical of your feels. 99 times in 100, we don't have the will for that, even when we think we do.

But Claire is pretty easy to mollify, and Marten knows this. Just acknowledging her feels would probably be enough, and it doesn't cost much. Zen Marten can do that, no issue. Passive aggressive Marten can't. While he was cool with Faye, it was pretty clear that passive aggressive Marten was in the house. What we don't know is if that was because it served the gag of the day, or if it was plot. So, it all comes down to which Marten shows up if Claire shows up.

hedgie · « **Reply #19 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 18:17 »

Quote from: Method of Madness on 07 Jun 2015, 17:42

How the hell did Marten lie? At all? Also, what makes you think Claire would fight anyone?

IMO, he didn't. Claire knows enough about what's going on, that if she has had to deal with anyone with substance addiction before, that Marten might politely skip the details. I'm rather insecure, myself, but I think that I'd put together that "Faye's not well" as a polite code for "Faye fell off the wagon" without specifically saying so.

wlewisiii · « **Reply #20 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 18:57 »

And comic is up with punch line straight out of someone's past experiences...

Rghfrgl · « **Reply #21 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 19:01 »

Don't worry Claire. Faye would never REALLY beat up Marten.

Well, except those two times.

But certainly not 3!

Unless you count slapstick.

electromgneticDstroyosaur · « **Reply #22 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 19:14 »

Claireten is masterfully manoeuvring these treacherous waters. Well played. Now we play the waiting game with Faye's nerves: how long can she keep herself together with these two lovebirds being such a cute couple?

hedgie · « **Reply #23 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 19:29 »

Faye does seem to have diffused the situation, however. Marten maybe had made Claire feel angry/insecure/uncertain/whatever, when he cancelled their date, which, considering she has just started her first relationship is a REALLY BIG FUCKING THING for her. I can't blame her. Faye's phone call, OTOH, managed to shoot a proverbial arrow through whatever negative emotions that Claire had been feeling, and bring her to realise what is more important. Even Marten was smart enough to realise that he hadn't given his gf *enough* information to keep her from feeling dismissed.

Gladstone · « **Reply #24 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 19:29 »

I think Claire took Faye's threat pretty seriously. I wonder how much time passed between Friday's comic and this one?

(Friday)
FAYE: (On the phone) "...Get yer ass over here or I'll beat up your boyfriend. Bye." (To Marten) "You're welcome."
MARTEN: "It's amazing how many problems you solve with threats of violence. You're like a Swiss army knife of hate."
FAYE: *muttering*
MARTEN: "What was that?"
FAYE: (louder) "...SIX, five, four, three--" [Frantic knocking on door] "--that was quick." [Opens door] "Heya, nerd."
CLAIRE: "Don't beat up my boyfriend!"

Neko_Ali · « **Reply #25 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 20:58 »

Well, Claire has reason to fear for Marten, I think. Faye does have a history of using threats, violence and possibly bullying to get what she wants. And she's beat up on Marten a number of times, both when he was deserving it, and not. She wasn't serious this time of course, but Claire doesn't know her well enough to judge that.

Timemaster · « **Reply #26 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 22:58 »

Good morning,

Now that´s what I call an anti-climax. There could have been drama, there cold have been agression and even a fight. But the whole situation has been perfectly resolved, the misunderstanding has been cleared out, even Faye´s thread of violence is no thing any more.
And everyone has stayed perfectly in character.

BOOOOOORING!!!!!!!

No, not really.

But I must admit that I expected something more ... spectacular today. So now I suppose we´re in for a week of talking on the infamous sofa. Faye´s on the train to bitter recrimination ville (without a stop in orgasm-town before

). And I am curious how Marten will get her though this and if Claire will be any help. Maybe this is even a chance for Faye and Claire to get their differences sorted out.
So todays strip is kind of an interlude, a dramaturgic twist to get these three characters together and to set the background for the coming episodes. We´ll see where this will take them.
I´ll stay tuned.

TM

BenRG · « **Reply #27 on:** 07 Jun 2015, 23:27 »

Ouch. I think that I see where this is going now. We're working towards 'The Talk, Part 2'. We're going to have a week or two of cute Clairten filler with sassy Faye commentary. Then, a hung-over Faye will awaken and, in strip 3000, the bitter unburdening of a broken heart to her friend (and his girlfriend) will begin.

A small thing that I noticed: You can see the tension in Marten and Claire's body postures. They are neither relaxed nor are they happy!

anahata · « **Reply #28 on:** 08 Jun 2015, 00:52 »

Quote from: hedgie on 07 Jun 2015, 19:29

Even Marten was smart enough to realise that he hadn't given his gf *enough* information to keep her from feeling dismissed.

But still quite right to let Faye be the one to choose to reveal the missing detail.

Akima · « **Reply #29 on:** 08 Jun 2015, 01:55 »

Overbite city!

ReindeerFlotilla · « **Reply #30 on:** 08 Jun 2015, 03:13 »

That was easy.

BenRG · « **Reply #31 on:** 08 Jun 2015, 03:24 »

Quote from: ReindeerFlotilla on 08 Jun 2015, 03:13

That was easy.

It's always easy to make peace when both sides want peace.

We're seeing an aspect of Claire's personality here: As much as she is pushy and occasionally abrasive, she has little taste for ongoing confrontations that have an angry aspect to them. Sass and 'light-hearted' mockery is one thing; actually arguing in anger is something else entirely to her. That's probably a consequence of the events surrounding her parents' separation.

Lubricus · « **Reply #32 on:** 08 Jun 2015, 03:32 »

Quote from: Akima on 08 Jun 2015, 01:55

Overbite city!

A-ha! Claire's actually Squirrel Girl! Busted!

neurocase · « **Reply #33 on:** 08 Jun 2015, 04:12 »

Some people might think the resolution between Marten and Claire is too easy, but hell, I'm proud of the little lovebirds. Moving past a petty little thing (Not the Faye situation, but the omitting the whole story out of respect for a friend/hanging up in anger thing) like this with sincerity and honesty is not only a great sign for a healthy relationship, even this early, but it shows tremendous growth for Marten especially. Things with Dora, as I recall them, were rarely ironed out this smoothly, even early on, because of Dora's insecurities. That's not to say Claire has no flaws; every person does. But the fact that they can hit a bump like that and just fix it immediately is a really good thing, and it gives me high hopes for whatever they have to face in the future. My hopes for Faye on the other hand..? Well, we'll see how it goes.

Khazgar · « **Reply #34 on:** 08 Jun 2015, 04:25 »

I can't help thinking that Faye's days of living with Marten are numbered.

She hasn't resolved any of her problems at all, and has already backslid (which while understandable is a bad sign). The crises in her life are ongoing, they haven't been cancelled, and Marten is neither equipped nor able to function as her minder/nurse - to expect him to is absolutely unfair on him.

I also remember the tension with Dora and Faye while Marten and Dora were still a thing. Claire is more secure than Dora is/was, but not by that much - and I can't believe that a part of her doesn't have a problem with Marten and Faye's cosy relationship. At some point in the future Marten, I think, will find himself having to choose between them.

Strip 3000 maybe?

ReindeerFlotilla · « **Reply #35 on:** 08 Jun 2015, 05:10 »

Quote from: BenRG on 08 Jun 2015, 03:24

It's always easy to make peace when both sides want peace.

If this were true, we writers of fiction would be hard pressed for stories, and history would be a lot less bloody. It's easy to make peace when both sides fear not peace more than they fear loss of pride. I was actually commenting that the drama was actually even less than I expected. I didn't expect much.

It's interesting to me that Marten deflected. Deflecting is not good, but nobody's perfect. The interesting thing to me is how he deflected. He didn't erase Claires responsibility by taking blame. He said, "It's my fault, too." I think that's a pretty healthy way to look at it.

Also, I think Faye has resolved some of her problems. Faye was a woman who couldn't honestly engage her issues without violence or total deflection. While she's retreated to the bottle, she is much more able to be vulnerable with those she trusts.

In a very real sense, Marten hadn't resolved many of his issues until very recently. He continued to coast through life aimlessly and turtle up when faced with setbacks. Letting his guard down with Claire wasn't growth. Following up on it when she backed off was. The fact that Faye had to intervene to make today's healthy moment possible shows that the passive, takes-all-shit Marten Reed is still in there. I think he's grown enough to have made this right on his own, but not enough to see that there was no sense in waiting. He's changed, but he hasn't changed a lot. Same with Faye.

swapna · « **Reply #36 on:** 08 Jun 2015, 05:18 »

Quote from: BenRG on 07 Jun 2015, 23:27

Ouch. I think that I see where this is going now. We're working towards 'The Talk, Part 2'. We're going to have a week or two of cute Clairten filler with sassy Faye commentary. Then, a hung-over Faye will awaken and, in strip 3000, the bitter unburdening of a broken heart to her friend (and his girlfriend) will begin.

A small thing that I noticed: You can see the tension in Marten and Claire's body postures. They are neither relaxed nor are they happy!

oh god, no. Please not. Really. That would be horrible. For a few reasons:

even most of those who do like Clairten just had their fill of sappy Clairten fillers. Everybody else, double that feeling.
Why fillers? There are a lot of topics that aren't resolved yet. How is Dora, the whole CoD Staff, Sven, Steve and Corsette, Clinton and Emily (and so on)
Hell no. Why would Faye, who has said clearly that Claire isn't in her circle of friends yet and is quite uncomfortable talking about feelings with anybody (Angus, Marten, Dora, her therapist) speak her innermost feelings to Claire, of all people?

BenRG · « **Reply #37 on:** 08 Jun 2015, 05:44 »

Quote from: swapna on 08 Jun 2015, 05:18

Hell no. Why would Faye, who has said clearly that Claire isn't in her circle of friends yet and is quite uncomfortable talking about feelings with anybody (Angus, Marten, Dora, her therapist) speak her innermost feelings to Claire, of all people?

Not Claire, Marten. Claire would just happen to be there.

neurocase · « **Reply #38 on:** 08 Jun 2015, 05:57 »

Quote from: BenRG on 08 Jun 2015, 05:44

Quote from: swapna on 08 Jun 2015, 05:18
Hell no. Why would Faye, who has said clearly that Claire isn't in her circle of friends yet and is quite uncomfortable talking about feelings with anybody (Angus, Marten, Dora, her therapist) speak her innermost feelings to Claire, of all people?

Not Claire, Marten. Claire would just happen to be there.

I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt that. Faye would never drop anything like that with Claire just sitting there. She wouldn't want to be a bitch and get rid of her after being the one to call her there, so she'd just stay quiet. I think we might be seeing the beginnings of Faye really clamming up again and blocking everyone out. Only this time, they're not going to get past the "prickly exterior"; they're just going to be too tired and end up leaving.

~~rfrank dodelijk~~ · « **Reply #39 on:** 08 Jun 2015, 06:40 »

faye is far better off drunk than sober considering the company she keeps.
I think today's strip clearly shows that faye's drinking is not a problem and that her trip to the hospital was entirely due to her housemate's huge over reaction.

I would like to see a mass culling of lesser characters in 3000 but don't hold much hope for that.

Neko_Ali · « **Reply #40 on:** 08 Jun 2015, 06:48 »

People keep comparing Dora and Claire's insecurities. But remember, Dora's fears about her partners cheating on her and treating her badly are completely founded in reality, since according to Sven Marten was the first person she dated who didn't do any of that. Dora was actively looking and waiting for when Marten was going to screw her over. Nobody is as good as sabotaging their life as the person themself. It's a good sign likely that she is doing a lot less of that with Tai.

Claire on the other hand has no previous dating experience. She has issues with people cheating thanks to her parents divorce. But she hasn't shown any signs of expecting it every time. The one time she did get angry about it was when she thought Tai stole Dora away. Something that was straitened out quick enough. Also she has no reason to suspect Faye is just waiting to swoop on Marten. They've lived together a long time, including times when both were single. Faye was the one who pushed Claire towards Marten and has already given her approval of the match. It would take someone a lot more paranoid about relationships to think that Faye is going to try and steal Marten away.

chaospersonified · « **Reply #41 on:** 08 Jun 2015, 07:08 »

Quote from: rfrank dodelijk on 08 Jun 2015, 06:40

faye is far better off drunk than sober considering the company she keeps.
I think today's strip clearly shows that faye's drinking is not a problem and that her trip to the hospital was entirely due to her housemate's huge over reaction.

Wrong.

You honestly think the hospital would waste time keeping a person who wasn't in danger of dying?

I'm not even gonna get into how one strip showing positive(ish) results as a result of Faye drinking doesn't discount the sheer number of those that say otherwise. Faye knows she has a problem, and she's addicted to booze. She literally found it impossible to go more than a few days without it. That's pretty textbook drinking problem.

Radium_Coyote · « **Reply #42 on:** 08 Jun 2015, 07:26 »

Speaking for myself: I've been in enough hospitals to understand that the hospitals are in it for the money. Individual staffers might care about your life, or you quality of life, or quality of death... but in the end, the bottom line is the bottom line. I've seen people that legitimately needed help turned away out of hand, and people that had deep pockets held onto like they were made of money.

This universe being what it is, playing with post-scarcity economics, I would posit that Faye wasn't turned out before she was dried out. But very shortly thereafter.

pwhodges · « **Reply #43 on:** 08 Jun 2015, 07:47 »

Quote from: rfrank dodelijk on 08 Jun 2015, 06:40

faye is far better off drunk than sober considering the company she keeps.
I think today's strip clearly shows that faye's drinking is not a problem and that her trip to the hospital was entirely due to her housemate's huge over reaction.

OK, unsubstantiated controversial claims stated baldly like that are simply what is known as trolling. Are you going to provide coherent arguments for that position, or should we encourage you to take your trolling elsewhere?

pwhodges · « **Reply #44 on:** 08 Jun 2015, 07:49 »

Quote from: Radium_Coyote on 08 Jun 2015, 07:26

Speaking for myself: I've been in enough hospitals to understand that the hospitals are in it for the money. Individual staffers might care about your life, or you quality of life, or quality of death... but in the end, the bottom line is the bottom line.

Remember that we know that Faye was still insured for the hospital visit.

electromgneticDstroyosaur · « **Reply #45 on:** 08 Jun 2015, 08:19 »

Quote from: rfrank dodelijk on 08 Jun 2015, 06:40

faye is far better off drunk than sober considering the company she keeps.

Quote from: chaospersonified on 08 Jun 2015, 07:08

Faye knows she has a problem, and she's addicted to booze. She literally found it impossible to go more than a few days without it. That's pretty textbook drinking problem.

I think the proper reaction is "dear god what hell awaits our cast once Faye sobers up?" Not defending her drinking in any way, but this night is headed for seven flavours of disaster that she is by no means prepared for.

Schwungrad · « **Reply #46 on:** 08 Jun 2015, 09:36 »

I see some parallels to Dora/Tai: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2914

themacnut · « **Reply #47 on:** 08 Jun 2015, 13:35 »

Quote from: ReindeerFlotilla on 08 Jun 2015, 05:10

The fact that Faye had to intervene to make today's healthy moment possible shows that the passive, takes-all-shit Marten Reed is still in there. I think he's grown enough to have made this right on his own, but not enough to see that there was no sense in waiting.

The thing is though, Marten was between a rock and a hard place, at least in his own mind. He didn't want to break a possible confidence by telling Faye's private business to a relative stranger (to Faye at least), nor did he want to leave Faye alone. On the other hand, he didn't want to subject his girlfriend to drunk Faye, or vice versa, especially considering the two women did not get along with each other very well when Faye was sober. I'm not sure how he could have resolved that dilemma without Faye's intervention, especially since it seems from today's strip that Claire did NOT guess that Faye had fallen off the wagon.

Omega Entity · « **Reply #48 on:** 08 Jun 2015, 14:14 »

Quote from: Khazgar on 08 Jun 2015, 04:25

[...] and Marten is neither equipped nor able to function as her minder/nurse - to expect him to is absolutely unfair on him.

Show me, exactly where, Faye has ever asked -anyone- to be her minder/nurse/maid/moral support/etc (other than going to Hanners to keep her distracted when the urges for booze were strong, reluctantly, might I add - she didn't want to burden her with her problems and said as much, as I recall) - which, imo, was a smart thing to do)? As has been shown time and again, Marten chronically does things in support of his friends, to the detriment of him and/or his relationships.

Faye has actually done the opposite of asking him to stay by her side - she actively called his girlfriend to get her over there because she doesn't want Marten screwing himself over jsut to be her babysitter. If that's not -not- asking for help, I don't know what is.

If a friend offers help without being requested, I don't see how the person being helped is suddenly taking advantage of that friend even if that help wasn't asked for. The logic train has left the station, folks.

EDIT: Alright, I found one instance where Faye asked Marten to talk to her for a while, when she was freaked out after her first date with Angus. Still isn't anything more than asking for a friends ear. If you can't ask that of a friend, then you might as well not have friends at all.

Kugai · « **Reply #49 on:** 08 Jun 2015, 14:54 »

So, whose gonna take the first watch?

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Author Topic: WCDT 2976-2980 (8 - 12 June 2015) (Read 29678 times)