Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Claire and Marten

Dora and Tai

Clinton and Emily

Veronica and Jim

Hannelore and the local Fire and Rescue Company

Pintsize and Bubbles

Steve and Cosette

Momo and May

[BenRG]

For what does Dora have to apologise to Faye? For not enabling her alcoholism? For not letting her endanger Dora's business*? For being upset with Faye lying to her to cover up her drunkenness? For behaving like Faye's boss?

For causing her friend pain, no matter how necessary and well-intentioned.

The first step to a functional friendship is a desire to live in peace. That means being willing to swallow your pride and realise that bad things can come from necessary and good acts and to show the correct level of humility to heal those wounds. Pride (which is nothing like self-respect but is, rather, a selfish view that you are more important than all other things and people) and a stubborn insistence that you were right all along is a short journey to living without friends in social isolation.

Burning bridges seems to be a Bianchi characteristic. I wonder if Dora will have the strength of character to decide to build instead?

[swapna]

am i the only one sick to freaking death of doras bratty attitude. its like wah  my brother has it easy because of natural talent.  wah my friends want to bone him wah.

And of course "Grrr! He hits on my friend and employee, on my business premises*, during the working day, in an extremely creepy, entitled, and inappropriate manner." That, after all, is what Dora means when she says that Sven burned the bridges with her. To describe her view as a "delusion", an observer presumably believes that it did not happen, or that his behaviour was acceptable, or that he has some sort of right to be judged indulgently by his sister regardless of how he behaves. And in-universe, apparently even Sven does not believe that.

She also forbade Raven to hit on him. Recap: Raven asked her to introduce them, and she threatened Sven with violence. Okay, she also threatened Raven, but she forbade them to flirt/hook up even though they weren't at her shop and, again, none of hers. She flipped out when she heard that Faye hooked up with him, even though that happened entirely on their private time. She set up a situation where Sven was supposed to ask out the girls at the coffee shop, and when Hanners accepted, she got angry. None of the women were coerced, they acted very much out of their own initiative, and what they do in their private lives and who they share their bed with is none of their bosses business.

Dora crosses boundaries all the time, and Sven even helped her enforce her bullshit rules to stay in good terms with her. Sven crossed a big one with Faye, but Faye handled it on her own, and wouldn't even have told Dora about it - she heard it from somebody else.

I wanted to write something concerning pride and apologies, but BenRG, again, put it better than I ever could. BEEENRRGGGGGGG

[SubaruStephen]

It's interesting that Hannelore eats fast food.  Given some of the stories about fast food food, whether they're true or not, you'd think she'd be paranoid about eating those products.

This thought came to mind for me, as well.

Especially since she's previously been reluctant to try Taco Bell. Not sure why she'd consider Arby's to be less terrifying.

Because despite how it tastes, Arby's serves actual food?

[jwhouk]

Everyone say it together,

Thankyew. That was the first thing I thought as well.

In other news... Okay, in the same news, Sven makes creepy comment and the deathsquads march. Hanners makes creepy comment and it's okay? Because Beatrice would probably utterly ruin the life of anyone if Hannelore asked her to.

It strikes me as a pretty symmetrical bit of boundary crossing, being examples of things both of them probably would have done in the past, without considering all of the consequences. Both are now at a point where they do think about the follow on from what they do but haven't quite fit that into the rules of polite conversation.

So you're saying she crossed the line twice?

[Method of Madness]

Sven's line was eyeroll-inducing, not much more.

Hanners is helping a friend (Sven), even if another friend (Dora) gets helped by result.

Also, I would say that Sven may think he deserved to have the bridges burned, but he would probably still rightly say that Dora burned them.

[katsmeat]

Given how boring and mundane the specials board now appears to be.  I suppose it's pretty obvious who was responsible for all the  "Punch in the head, so you can call in sick"  listings

[Method of Madness]

I wouldn't call "sausage latte" boring or mundane.

[ReindeerFlotilla]

So you're saying she crossed the line twice?

Chess set... so wrong. Can't stop laughing.

[Akima]

None of the women were coerced, they acted very much out of their own initiative, and what they do in their private lives and who they share their bed with is none of their bosses business.

How far should respect for another person's personal autonomy make you keep quiet when they're doing something you think ill-advised? This topic has come up before:

I get that Dora is trying to look out for Hanners given Sven's past... but I don't like how she says "... but you can go." acting like it's actually her place to give permission. They are all adults and hanners can do whatever the hell she wants, screw Dora's bs paranoia. While I may be biased because of my long time dislike of Dora, it would annoy me if any other cast member acted this way too.

Hmmm... Personal autonomy is all well and good, but let us try a thought experiment. Imagine your friend, who had never driven a car before in her life, was proposing to take a Shelby Cobra* at high speed down a wet mountain road. Would you really just think "Meh... She's a grown-up, entitled to make her own decisions," and wave her off? Or try to talk her out of it?

Sven's background is that of a serial philanderer, with serious honesty, personal accountability, and self-control problems, who is (as far as Dora knows) unreformed, and who's shown that he's willing to seriously hurt her friends. Friends don't let friends drive drunk. Friends care enough about friends to try to talk them out of dangerous behaviour.

[chaospersonified]

None of the women were coerced, they acted very much out of their own initiative, and what they do in their private lives and who they share their bed with is none of their bosses business.

How far should respect for another person's personal autonomy make you keep quiet when they're doing something you think ill-advised? This topic has come up before:

I get that Dora is trying to look out for Hanners given Sven's past... but I don't like how she says "... but you can go." acting like it's actually her place to give permission. They are all adults and hanners can do whatever the hell she wants, screw Dora's bs paranoia. While I may be biased because of my long time dislike of Dora, it would annoy me if any other cast member acted this way too.

Hmmm... Personal autonomy is all well and good, but let us try a thought experiment. Imagine your friend, who had never driven a car before in her life, was proposing to take a Shelby Cobra* at high speed down a wet mountain road. Would you really just think "Meh... She's a grown-up, entitled to make her own decisions," and wave her off? Or try to talk her out of it?

Sven's background is that of a serial philanderer, with serious honesty, personal accountability, and self-control problems, who is (as far as Dora knows) unreformed, and who's shown that he's willing to seriously hurt her friends. Friends don't let friends drive drunk. Friends care enough about friends to try to talk them out of dangerous behaviour.

I REALLY don't think your analogy is accurate. Hanners has reservations herself, it would be closer to a 'friend who can't drive taking a motorized scooter down a hill."

i agree, Sven's been a dickhole, but the whole staff is AWARE, so add that the driver of the car has been warned THOROUGHLY of all the shit to watch out for, and given fair warning. At that point, Dora doesn't get a say, because it's not her that's getting involved.

[Somnus Eternus]

Yo, but...Arby's, though.

I'm sure there's lots of awesome discussion about Sven going on, but...Arby's.

How is that not worth at least three pages of psychoanalysis, curly fries aside?

[chaospersonified]

Yo, but...Arby's, though.

I'm sure there's lots of awesome discussion about Sven going on, but...Arby's.

How is that not worth at least three pages of psychoanalysis, curly fries aside?

I'd be up to psychoanalyze Hanners' liking for curly fries if I didn't agree with her.

As it stands, curly fries are tasty, end of analysis.

There is little else to say.

[Zebediah]

Sometimes a curly fry is just a curly fry.

[Thrudd]

And then there is what is actually served.
Do not read if you have a delicate constitution.
Curly Fries:

(click to show/hide)

Potatoes,
Vegetable Oil (contains one or more of the following: canola oil, soybean oil, cottonseed oil, sunflower oil, Corn Oil, palm oil), Why do they add it when they cook in it?
Enriched Bleached Flour (wheat flour, niacin, reduced iron, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid),
Salt,
Corn Starch,
Onion Powder,
Yellow Corn Meal,
Spices, which in particular?
Garlic Powder, But thats a spice isn't it?
Leavening (sodium acid pyrophosphate, sodium bicarbonate),
Modified Corn Starch, How has it been modified? did they add a turbocharger and low profile slicks?
Dextrose,
Spice and Colouring, Didn't they just list spices and what kind of colouring? Some of that stuff causes severe allergic reactions.
Natural Flavor, There are so many natural things whose flavour I would not want. Rat droppings for one.
Dried Torula Yeast,
Xanthan Gum,
Sodium Acid Pyrophosphate (to preserve natural color). But that added that already further up the list plus colouring to hide the natural colour

Cooked in Corn Oil.
CONTAINS: WHEAT.
May be cooked in the same oil as menu items that contain Soy, Egg, Milk, and Fish (where available) So one fryer to fry them all and to hell with cross contamination and food saftey

[Welu]

Mm, delicious chemicals. I really want some Arby's now.

Genuinely though, I'm pissed there aren't any in Ireland.

[Method of Madness]

I'm not sure if I've ever actually been to Arby's.

[Welu]

Method, has your avatar always had mysterious shapes in it?

[Method of Madness]

Ever since I changed it to this one, yeah. It's a .gif, the pup is trying to get the stick across the bridge, the shapes represent his mental calculations.

[Welu]

Ah! I didn't get that, but I have seen the video of the pup getting over the bridge with the stick. Somehow never saw the shapes before.

[Method of Madness]

I haven't seen the video but I wouldn't be surprised if the shapes were added in for the gif.

[Tobimaro]

Mm, delicious chemicals. I really want some Arby's now.

I like their Reuben sandwich. Yes, I know that it is not a true Reuben. But I like it.

[bhtooefr]

Now I want a Jamocha shake.

[Method of Madness]

Mm, delicious chemicals. I really want some Arby's now.

I like their Reuben sandwich. Yes, I know that it is not a true Reuben. But I like it.

What IS a true Reuben? The ingredients look right (although I'd get it without the dressing because ew).

[swapna]

None of the women were coerced, they acted very much out of their own initiative, and what they do in their private lives and who they share their bed with is none of their bosses business.

How far should respect for another person's personal autonomy make you keep quiet when they're doing something you think ill-advised? This topic has come up before:

I get that Dora is trying to look out for Hanners given Sven's past... but I don't like how she says "... but you can go." acting like it's actually her place to give permission. They are all adults and hanners can do whatever the hell she wants, screw Dora's bs paranoia. While I may be biased because of my long time dislike of Dora, it would annoy me if any other cast member acted this way too.

Hmmm... Personal autonomy is all well and good, but let us try a thought experiment. Imagine your friend, who had never driven a car before in her life, was proposing to take a Shelby Cobra* at high speed down a wet mountain road. Would you really just think "Meh... She's a grown-up, entitled to make her own decisions," and wave her off? Or try to talk her out of it?

Sven's background is that of a serial philanderer, with serious honesty, personal accountability, and self-control problems, who is (as far as Dora knows) unreformed, and who's shown that he's willing to seriously hurt her friends. Friends don't let friends drive drunk. Friends care enough about friends to try to talk them out of dangerous behaviour.

Yeah, worrying for Hanners I can understand. I can even understand Dora getting over-protective and overstepping her boundaries there, even though I can't support it. But Raven? Raven is the girl who (according to your analogy) does half-legal high-speed-races with a modified car with rockets on it, and Dora forbids her to go out with Sven (and the other way around). And with Faye she was furious, as if this was somehow a personal betrayal - it was definitely not because she was worried.

[Tobimaro]

Mm, delicious chemicals. I really want some Arby's now.

I like their Reuben sandwich. Yes, I know that it is not a true Reuben. But I like it.

What IS a true Reuben? The ingredients look right (although I'd get it without the dressing because ew).

It's Arby's version of a Reuben. I am certain that there are purists out there who would tell me what a proper Reuben sandwich should be like. Sadly, in my part of the USA, there are no such places that serve one. I only have the large chain eateries like Arby's or Penn Station.

[Random832]

So does anyone have a quick recap on what exactly happened with Sven? People have some pretty strong opinions on whether whatever it was was really his fault or whatever, and... well...



Seriously, though, I can't remember anything at all.

[Thrillho]

So does anyone have a quick recap on what exactly happened with Sven? People have some pretty strong opinions on whether whatever it was was really his fault or whatever, and... well...



Seriously, though, I can't remember anything at all.

- Declares love for Faye in fairly Nice Guy fashion
- Baffled that this fails
- Dora calls him an asshole for being so insensitive to Faye when her and Angus are on the rocks, cuts him out of her life

[Random832]

- Declares love for Faye in fairly Nice Guy fashion

You know, at this point I half think "Nice Guy" just means "anything I don't like", since actually clearly stating your feelings is exactly the opposite of what a lot of people (hell, for all we know it's something Sven heard that led him to this) call "Nice Guy" behavior.

See e.g. xkcd

----

Anyway, now, so I can see both sides of it, does anyone who is claiming it wasn't his fault and that Dora was overreacting have a recap of their versions of events?

Why do they add it when they cook in it?

Hang on, did you think it was on the list for some other reason than the fact that they cooked in it? All fried foods list the grease/oil as an ingredient.

[Thrillho]

He declared his love for Faye and then expected her to fall into his arms entirely on the basis that he thinks Angus is an asshole. Lots of folks dispute whether he even actually loves her, I would say that is quintessentially Nice Guy. 'I told her I loved her and her boyfriend is a douche, what more does she want???'

Anyway, his defenders say he was simply being honest about his feelings and Dora overreacted.

[Welu]

The issue isn't that he stated his feelings, it's that he thought doing that alone would be enough to make Faye leave her current boyfriend for him. Also as Steve says, sometimes honesty isn't the best policy.

Edit: Ninja'd.

Double edit:

Back to today's strip, I'm really disappointed in Dora that after the practice-date thing where Hanners insisted she had fun and Sven was respectful, that her first comment about him is asking if he made a pass at Hanners. It's not only insulting to Sven, but also to Hanners' judgement of character.
I think Dora's built an image of Sven in her head that makes him out to be more malicious rather than oblivious to his good fortune, which is supported by actions he has done. Although she uses those negative times to override the times he isn't a douchenozzle.

[Method of Madness]

Anyway, his defenders say he was simply being honest about his feelings and Dora overreacted.

What would I be, then? I think it was a shitty thing for him to do and that Dora overreacted.

[ReindeerFlotilla]

Anyway, his defenders say he was simply being honest about his feelings and Dora overreacted.

What would I be, then? I think it was a shitty thing for him to do and that Dora overreacted.

An iconoclast?

[Method of Madness]

That seems cromulent.

[ReindeerFlotilla]

I wasn't trying to embiggen your ego, there.

[jwhouk]

Now I want a Jamocha shake.

Their Orange Dream shake isn't too bad.

...and I thought their schtick was the potato cakes, not curly fries?

[Mr. Skawronska]

How far should respect for another person's personal autonomy make you keep quiet when they're doing something you think ill-advised? This topic has come up before:

Mine is "until I run out of popcorn and schadenfreude."

And curly fries are awesome.  Just gotta say that.

[foolsguinea]

These last two days are interesting to me. I know who these characters are, and care, but I wonder if there are newer fans who are puzzled. This takes me back to that comic Jeph used to do before the present adventures of Marten and Claire, and boy-Claire and the weird girl from Marten's workplace.

[CaptainFish]

I really hope we get to see Dora and Sven talk (or argue or fight). I've never been quite able to parse Sven's weird overly dense attitude when he told Faye he loved her. It felt incongruent with how he usually acts, but since we see so little of him, it's hard to tell.

I know you shouldn't show everything, but I would've loved seeing Dora tell Sven she's cutting him out of his life just to hear him talk about his actions with someone he actually cares about. The debrief with Steve just kind of doubled down on his attitude.

I guess it seemed a little strange to me that Sven went from being mopey, lonely and introspective to thinking life would be like a romantic comedy for himself. I mean, he's used to getting what he wants, but I thought he was more realistic about it in the past. His creepy line to Hannelore felt like it came from the same mold though, so maybe that's just how he is now.

[ReindeerFlotilla]

I'm not sure it's been That long sine we last saw Dora and Hannelore. Sven, it's been a while.

[Kugai]

I don't really think Hanners wants her Mom to buy CoD and turn it into an Arbys

In some way I can understand Doras attitude towards Sven.  After all, she's had a lifetime of dealing with his shtick, and what happened was likely the straw that broke the Camels back, but in some ways I think she's also behaving a little immaturely about it.  She really does need to talk to Sven at some stage, but I think she may wind up talking to Faye before that happens.

[cesium133]

They were Svan and Mora.

[St.Clair]

It's interesting that Hannelore eats fast food.  Given some of the stories about fast food food, whether they're true or not, you'd think she'd be paranoid about eating those products.

This thought came to mind for me, as well.

Especially since she's previously been reluctant to try Taco Bell. Not sure why she'd consider Arby's to be less terrifying.

Because despite how it tastes, Arby's serves actual food?

And despair.
Both fill you; neither satisfies.
Arby's.

[Stanistani]

Now I want to see Svan and Mora eating some Spathe Ham.

[Method of Madness]

Nothing reconciles siblings like space ham.

[BlueFatima]

I know this story is supposed to be cute and feel-goodish (how can it not be when Hanner is involved), but it continues this myth that 1) estrangements are unjustified/bad (keep in mind almost all stories that cover estrangement put this out), and 2) outsiders should get involved to stop estrangements.

That's not really a good idea. First off, outsiders can actually make things worse between estranged family members (unless the outsiders are trained in professional mediation). 

Second, most of the time, when someone has to make a shitty decision like walking away from their family, it's not over some stupid or petty misunderstanding. Either severe mental illness is involved (either from the person who walked away or the ones who were estranged) and/or the person who got out had a damn good reason.

I wish artists/authors would take a more mindful approach when covering the subject of estrangement. I respect whatever direction this particular story takes (it's really up to Jeph), but I think I'm just going to have to step away and come back later. 

[Method of Madness]

I don't see how estrangement (at least in this case) isn't a bad thing.

[Kugai]

It's the things we DON'T say that hurt the most - especially when it get to be too late.

[Concordian]

I really do hope they reconcile, Sven is kind of a jerk but he hasn't done anything worth disowning your brother over.

[Rghfrgl]

The whole thing was really about Mora's friend Raye.

[jmucchiello]

Yea, the funny things on the chalkboard are back!!!! Woot.


Yes, that's the only reason I'm posting.