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Star Wars: Episode VIII
TheEvilDog:
I like the glow sticks that go "Fwoom!".
(click to show/hide)Although I do feel that the central message of the Last Jedi was that legends are something of a double edge sword. They can inspire people to good or evil, they can inspire hope and they spark hubris. The real strength is being to let go of the past and being free of the shackles.
Kylo Ren's driving force was to following in his grandfather's footsteps, not realizing the pain that drove Anakin to become Darth Vader helped destroyed him. Anakin wasn't evil or a monster, he was just a man that had several traumatic experiences and none of his closest friends/mentors really helped him. "Have you tried bottling up those emotions?"
Luke killed an Emperor and toppled an Empire, but in doing so became mired in the past. He was so focused on restoring the Jedi Order that Ben's betrayal destroyed his faith in himself and the Force (which also explains why Luke never came to Han or Leia's aid when they were in danger like he did in the Empire Strikes Back, he had cut himself off from the Force).
Poe's failings come from the belief that his previous actions would work again, only for that to fail horribly and his pyrrhic victory.
Rey wants to recapture the past glory and find some meaning for herself by seeking the legendary Luke Skywalker, but instead of finding a hero, she just comes across an old and bitter man who seems to have given up.
Ultimately for the characters to progress and develop, they needed to find move out from underneath the shadows of legends, to let go of the past and move on. Or in Luke's case, watch the arsonist toad burn that tree.
Tova:
(click to show/hide)You reminded me of one of the moments I liked: when Leia said, "What are you looking at me for? Follow him."
It's an acknowledgement that Poe has grown from a flyboy to a leader, a transformation that grew out of his failings (a central message of the film).
JoeCovenant:
--- Quote from: Tova on 09 Jan 2018, 18:53 --- (click to show/hide)You reminded me of one of the moments I liked: when Leia said, "What are you looking at me for? Follow him."
It's an acknowledgement that Poe has grown from a flyboy to a leader, a transformation that grew out of his failings (a central message of the film).
--- End quote ---
(click to show/hide)Whereas to me it was another example of bad story telling.
This guy was shot for mutiny not that long ago...
I mean, redemption, fine, but only a few hours afterwards?
JoeCovenant:
--- Quote from: Tova on 09 Jan 2018, 14:04 ---
--- Quote from: JoeCovenant on 09 Jan 2018, 08:49 ---But I *do* I doubt VERY much that it's the big deal this article seems to make out that it is because I have seen NO-ONE making any of the points that article makes...
And I've actually looked.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, well. I thought no-one was making the claims you're complaining about. And yet you're making a very big deal out of that. So, I'd be careful in drawing conclusions.
So, obviously you disliked the film. Actually, you spend so much denying you hate it, I wonder if you protest too much. It's fine if you hated it, it's fine if you disliked it. It's a pity that you felt unable to say so explicitly. My impression is that you disliked the film due to its numerous plot holes and inconsistencies. Is this very roughly correct?
--- End quote ---
That is not very roughly correct, that is almost my entire beef! :)
But there were also bits I liked! (Honestly, if I had hated it, I would have had no qualms in saying so.)
I think all it is , is, that I am disappointed in it. Which can often be worse than hatred.
And I'm kicking against the "official" 'this film is for the new generation', because all I see is dumbing down and pandering, and MY newer generation viewers are complaining about the same things that I did.
(Also... this just hit me... I think a part of my annoyance is the wiping out of Luke's "history" of becoming this amazing and worthy Jedi, due to "New Canon". But that is secondary to the craft being .. just... bad.)
Tova:
Long response coming, but I've noticed that the precise phrase "bad story telling" is probably the one thing in common between the vast majority of complaints.
Influencing each other?
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