Comic Discussion > ALICE GROVE
Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
fayelovesbubbles:
--- Quote from: A small perverse otter on 05 Jul 2017, 21:45 ---
--- Quote from: OldGoat on 05 Jul 2017, 19:01 ---This is the first time Church has dropped his guard. Sedna's been watching and waiting since he killed Ellie. He let himself get distracted by his desire for revenge and Sedna struck.
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Also "Put on a spike" from that particular strip. Evidently Sedna meant that a little more literally than it seemed.
But poor Alice. What is her reaction to Sedna's death going to be?
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That's part of what is just breaking my heart right now. Alice and Sedna go way back, knew each other for thousands of years, and now Sedna is just gone. Alice has lived so long and seen people she cared for pass away, but Sedna was still with her.
I'm sorry, I am probably the only one losing it over this but I am totally heartbroken, I didn't see this coming at all.
fayelovesbubbles:
I wanted them all to be together and safe in the end, and clearly that just isn't going to happen. :-(
I know that isn't realistic, but...sigh.
And what is it going to do to Gavia to know that taking the knife out of Pate's heart caused this to happen...
OldGoat:
--- Quote from: mikmaxs on 05 Jul 2017, 21:08 ---Second, we've seen that Church is MUCH faster than Alice (being able to cross several paces before Alice can move her arm two feet(, who in turn is - if not faster - at least stronger than Sedna. So either 1, why wasn't Church running at anywhere near top speed, or 2, how dod Sedna suddenly run faster than him?
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Both Pate and Church were anticipating an attack when Alice moved to kill Pate and were ready for her. If Church's attention had been on Sedna, she probably would not have gotten to him in one piece - make that two pieces. But, he was focused on (presumably) Alice and probably thinking up a 5,000 year torment to inflict upon her and didn't remember/bother to check his six. (Note the contrast between Church's normal flat affect poker face versus his shark smile whenever he's attacking Alice.) For Sedna it was now-or-never - she saw her chance to kill the bastard and went for it.
mikmaxs:
--- Quote from: OldGoat on 05 Jul 2017, 22:08 ---
--- Quote from: mikmaxs on 05 Jul 2017, 21:08 ---Second, we've seen that Church is MUCH faster than Alice (being able to cross several paces before Alice can move her arm two feet(, who in turn is - if not faster - at least stronger than Sedna. So either 1, why wasn't Church running at anywhere near top speed, or 2, how dod Sedna suddenly run faster than him?
--- End quote ---
Both Pate and Church were anticipating an attack when Alice moved to kill Pate and were ready for her. If Church's attention had been on Sedna, she probably would not have gotten to him in one piece - make that two pieces. But, he was focused on (presumably) Alice and probably thinking up a 5,000 year torment to inflict upon her and didn't remember/bother to check his six. (Note the contrast between Church's normal flat affect poker face versus his shark smile whenever he's attacking Alice.) For Sedna it was now-or-never - she saw her chance to kill the bastard and went for it.
--- End quote ---
Take a closer look at that comic. It's hard to tell exactly the real distances, but based off of the character's scale relative to one another, Alice is a couple of paces - five or six feet- at most behind Pate, and Church is WELL behind either of them, at least ten feet behind Alice.
In the time it takes Alice to leap forward five feet at top speed, Church doesn't just cross all the way over, and grab Alice's arm, he does it like it's nothing. He blurs, and suddenly his hand is gripping hers with enough strength to stop all of her forward momentum, without having to exert himself in the slightest - He's not leaning into the grab, or pushing her, he's just standing there without any leverage and he's still able to stop her cold.
Given this, Church is at least three times faster than Alice, and it is implied to be much more.
Meanwhile, when Church dives after Alice, Sedna has time to - While standing in one spot a couple of paces behind Church - Rip off her own arm, break it into two pieces with her mouth, and then chase down Church, when Church is sprinting forward at top speed in order to (presumably) finish off Alice.
I'm not saying that Sedna couldn't have snuck up behind him and/or taken him by surprise while he pounded Alice in the face over and over, I'm saying that, given the information we have learned from the comic, she couldn't possibly have chased him down. (Also: It was apparently a very loud crack when she broke her arm in half, which would presumably be something worth checking out, even to him.)
--- Quote from: TheEvilDog on 05 Jul 2017, 21:46 ---I would say that if we were to crudely equate the super soldiers to something similar, then Church is a dreadnought, Alice is a cruiser and Sedna is a destroyer. Church is the powerhouse that needs to build up speed, Alice is the jack-of-all-trades, while Sedna is brings firepower beyond her comparative size. Essentially, The destroyer rammed the dreadnought and took it down.
As for Laridia? Easy. She's a modern day aircraft carrier compared to their WWI prowess. As in she's got the reach and damage potential the others can only dream of.
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That doesn't really solve much, though. My point about Laridia was easily the weakest, so I could buy that she just didn't react quickly enough before the melee went down, but we've clearly seen that these characters are effectively indestructible, with Church being completely unphased by literally everything else up to this point. Alice uses a weapon that we can presume is specifically designed for her to use against other super-soldiers, and then hits him with an orbital space cannon exterminatus beam laser, and all it does is trap him Rita Repulsa style. A splintery bone should not be better at cutting through armor than an actual weapon.
And even if Sedna is faster than Alice, there's no reason for her to be THAT MUCH faster, and we've clearly seen that Church does not need to build up speed - He catches Alice without breaking a sweat, literally blurring through the air. According to the information given by Sedna, she's a support grunt, while Alice and Church are much more powerful. Sedna is not even a soldier, or at least not one that was designed to see front-line combat.
brasca:
--- Quote from: mikmaxs on 05 Jul 2017, 21:08 ---Hmmm. :/
I'm kind of disappointed by this resolution, mostly because every part of it is so implausible that instead of feeling like "Oh, that's such a cool thing to do with the scenario presented!", I'm just thinking, "... What?"
Firstly, if Supersoldier Bones that were randomly broken into shards made a strong enough knife to punch through Supersoldier Armor, why wasn't Alice just armed with a bone knife when she fought him before the Blink? Don't bury him, stab him to death. (Or bury him, uncover the top of his head, THEN stab him to death.)
Second, we've seen that Church is MUCH faster than Alice (being able to cross several paces before Alice can move her arm two feet(, who in turn is - if not faster - at least stronger than Sedna. So either 1, why wasn't Church running at anywhere near top speed, or 2, how dod Sedna suddenly run faster than him?
Third, Laridia is clearly not scared of Church, even remotely: She views him as a minor potential nuisance. Based on this, it seems unlikely that a fight could break out at all.
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When Alice fought Church 5000 years ago it was probably before the Blink and her superiors might've ordered her to leave him buried in magma so they could reuse him later. After the Blink there was no one that knew he was there except Alice who I doubt wanted to go to the trouble to kill him. As for why he didn't move at top speed I believe Gavia was the target and there was no need to move so quickly. She was the only one who could put Pate in check in such a way that Church could do nothing. The rest could be killed at his leisure.
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