Comic Discussion > ALICE GROVE

Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?

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Emperor Norton:
The reason it matters that Ardent and Gavia are not unique is that it makes their journey and their purpose matter even less. What difference did everything they do make when nothing they did had any strong impact that wasn't already being done by all the other people sent to Earth weren't already doing?

And in regards to Church, remember there are multiple people of Gavia's strength on the planet that just got sent there from the Praeses, plus super tech about to become the norm. The fact that Church could die from a single bone through the neck when surprised, I don't think he could fight all of that at once.

(Plus there is the whole issue that Church and Pate are basically introduced with 1/4th of the pages left, they never really had room to breathe as villains before being killed).

Nothing in the comic they did really mattered, and nothing they did other than get to space actually gave them any answers. They didn't learn anything other than what they were told and what Alice then inferred from her knowledge (which we never get much of during the comic itself), to give us more exposition. And once they have the answers, there is nothing really ACTIONABLE to do with those answers. They just, oh, ok. Now we know. (And knowledge is half the battle!)

And the reason that it matters that there are no hints is that you want to make the whole ending about their search for knowledge, but the only thing that matters for that search is the last 5 minutes when someone tells them the answers. There is no slow reveal of bits and pieces of information, everything is just dumped on you at once. I can't believe people are defending Deus Exposition as good writing.

mil:
Another issue with Pate and Church's late appearance in the story is that their presence and actions don't actually influence the unfolding plot in any material way. If Pate and Church didn't exist:

> Alice still would've punched through the concrete roof of the bunker (presumably that was the 'plan' she referred to)
> They'd have still found the Valkryie at the bunker's base (Alice would've punched through the blast door easily)
> Ardent would've touched the Valkryie at some point (inevitable, really)
> They'd have gone to space (and docked with the giant tree instead of accidentally breaking in), met Laridia (or the Praeses) and had the same exposition chat minus all the violence
> The end.

Unfortunately, that's not good writing.

JimC:

--- Quote from: mil on 28 Jul 2017, 04:08 ---Unfortunately, that's not good writing.
--- End quote ---

Debatable. There is a school of thought that has rules about how everything you write has to be essential to the plot, but frankly I think that's *******s. The intention of a story is to entertain, and if going off on a tangent that's completely irrelevant to the main thread of the plot entertains then its just fine by me. That's what real life is like: all sorts of things come from nowhere and go nowhere.

Thrudd:
All things said I would have preferred a "Krazy Larry" type ending but we have what we have unless we get a Speilberg sometime in the future.

Tova:

--- Quote from: mil on 28 Jul 2017, 04:08 ---Another issue with Pate and Church's late appearance in the story is that their presence and actions don't actually influence the unfolding plot in any material way.

--- End quote ---

I don't completely agree, though I'm not sure what you mean by 'material way', or whether the material..ity? material...ness? of their influence even matters.

Pate and Church introduce what is arguably the central conflict of the story - that of Alice's desire to maintain the status quo versus Pate's desire for humankind to advance. This conflict was resolved at the end when Pate was stopped and the immediatge threat halted, but it was revealed that (most likely) Alice had failed and human kind would advance regardless.

We could have an argument about how compelling that particular thread of the plot turned out, or how well it was told (it's a pity it was told at the end purely via exposition, but that's horse has been beaten to death). But that central plot thread would have been missing if not for Pate and Church.

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