Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT Strips 3631 to 3635 (11th to 15th December 2017
maneyan:
--- Quote from: mercykills on 11 Dec 2017, 06:37 ---
--- Quote from: maneyan on 11 Dec 2017, 05:47 ---
--- Quote from: dutchrvl on 11 Dec 2017, 05:21 ---
--- Quote from: Bad Superman on 10 Dec 2017, 21:58 --- After all, his general lethargy has cost Marten his relationship with Dora (well, that, and her own issues) and maybe this was kind of a wake-up-call for him not to screw up with Claire…
--- End quote ---
It still surprises me when people seem to place a lot (or even most) of the blame on Marten for that breakup.
While he could’ve done things better in that relationship, for sure, his passiveness had very little, if anything , to do with it failing, IMO.
--- End quote ---
Weeeell.... that's the thing about being lethargic or passive, it NEVER is something you did, because you never do anything. It's true Dora had a large part of it, but considering she could make things work with Tai pretty briefly afterwards implies that she isn't just some monster who can never be happy. Like Hanners, Marten needed to learn to set boundaries. He didn't really do that and simply got mad when Dora overstepped them. Again, Dora was the main reason it all came crashing down, but Marten did pretty much nothing proactively to try to help it either, and I believe that's the point.
--- End quote ---
A lack of set boundaries weren't the issue, though. It was Dora's irrational jealousy and insecurities. Which she worked on and thus, why she's making it work with Tai.
I mean, hell, Martin could have been the most proactive boyfriend ever. Short of him breaking off his friendship with Faye and every other female from then until perpetuity AND blinding himself so, he couldn't even look at another woman in passing, yea...there was ZIP he could have done to have salvaged that one. As I said, you can't set boundaries there because boundaries are logic and logic and irrational fears don't mix.
Look, I love Dora and it pissed me off when people tried to put ANY part of Faye's self-destruction on her. But, just like Faye had to own her bullsh*t, Dora has to own hers.
--- End quote ---
I don't quite know if I agree on that one: I still feel like greater clarity and less waffling would have served Marten well. Still as said, Dora does bear the greatest responsibility.
dutchrvl:
It looks more and more like this is going to be an arc that will continue until the end of this calendar year, I don't expect JJ to switch back to anything else before Jauary.
dutchrvl:
--- Quote from: maneyan on 11 Dec 2017, 08:36 ---I don't quite know if I agree on that one: I still feel like greater clarity and less waffling would have served Marten well. Still as said, Dora does bear the greatest responsibility.
--- End quote ---
I'm curious to know where during their relationship he was unclear or waffling in your opinion? I mean, he was clear about his boundaries wrt privacy, very clear about his feelings about Dora and about Faye, so I don't see much passiveness during their relationship with regards to the latter. Towards his career, sure, but towards their relationship, not really (prior to their relationship, yes, absolutely). Even when they decided to live together he was reasonably honest and forthcoming about what he wanted and did not want.
Bad Superman:
--- Quote from: maneyan on 11 Dec 2017, 08:36 ---
--- Quote from: mercykills on 11 Dec 2017, 06:37 ---
--- Quote from: maneyan on 11 Dec 2017, 05:47 ---
--- Quote from: dutchrvl on 11 Dec 2017, 05:21 ---
--- Quote from: Bad Superman on 10 Dec 2017, 21:58 --- After all, his general lethargy has cost Marten his relationship with Dora (well, that, and her own issues) and maybe this was kind of a wake-up-call for him not to screw up with Claire…
--- End quote ---
It still surprises me when people seem to place a lot (or even most) of the blame on Marten for that breakup.
While he could’ve done things better in that relationship, for sure, his passiveness had very little, if anything , to do with it failing, IMO.
--- End quote ---
Weeeell.... that's the thing about being lethargic or passive, it NEVER is something you did, because you never do anything. It's true Dora had a large part of it, but considering she could make things work with Tai pretty briefly afterwards implies that she isn't just some monster who can never be happy. Like Hanners, Marten needed to learn to set boundaries. He didn't really do that and simply got mad when Dora overstepped them. Again, Dora was the main reason it all came crashing down, but Marten did pretty much nothing proactively to try to help it either, and I believe that's the point.
--- End quote ---
A lack of set boundaries weren't the issue, though. It was Dora's irrational jealousy and insecurities. Which she worked on and thus, why she's making it work with Tai.
I mean, hell, Martin could have been the most proactive boyfriend ever. Short of him breaking off his friendship with Faye and every other female from then until perpetuity AND blinding himself so, he couldn't even look at another woman in passing, yea...there was ZIP he could have done to have salvaged that one. As I said, you can't set boundaries there because boundaries are logic and logic and irrational fears don't mix.
Look, I love Dora and it pissed me off when people tried to put ANY part of Faye's self-destruction on her. But, just like Faye had to own her bullsh*t, Dora has to own hers.
--- End quote ---
I don't quite know if I agree on that one: I still feel like greater clarity and less waffling would have served Marten well. Still as said, Dora does bear the greatest responsibility.
--- End quote ---
Okay, so, I don't want to derail this thread any further, but just allow me the closing remarks, before we get back on track.
The point I was trying to make was, that in the current Marten/Claire situation he is the more experienced one. Back when Dora broke up with him (and yes, I too put most of the blame of their relationship failing on her!) he just accepted it. He didn't protest or fight for them to stay together. And neither of them really did try to make things work again, when their relationship had just hit it's first mayor crisis. Because that's what you do if you actually DO love your partner. You fight for them. You show them that you really care about them and try to strengthen them. That is the lesson I hope Marten has learned from all this.
PS: I just wanted to remind you guys that english isn't my first language. So, if my writing is a little off, or if some sentences don't seem to make much sense, please feel free to ask, or to correct me on that.
JoeCovenant:
Looking back, I do wonder if Marten and Dora were split-up simply to make way for Claire.
Mainly because I thought Marten and Dora's relationship was very well written, with the right amount of 'problems' to keep it ticking along nicely, and remain a subject for comics (For as we all know, perfect relationships are boring to read about.) And, dammit, I thought they went WELL together!
And hey, I haven't dwelt on it (just thought about it actually) but maybe this is part of my reason for disliking Marten/Claire(?)
A really good foil for both drama and comedy were taken away, and in return we get a trans character whom Marten has no real concerns with dating - besides it never really having been explored in any way at all, at any point - the realisation the Marten / Claire hook-up was (to me) WAY too easy... Unless, of course, Marten just doesn't care much about anything... It was just too easy.
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2801
This was the last time Claire seemed a half-way decent character...
Since she and Marten hooked up... I dunno.. went from a half way decent support cast to a totally bland main-caster. (And the nose ring was a bad mve IMO)
My only hope is that as this is Claire's first ever relationship, it will soon end.
Given Jeph's talent for deep-seated emotional writing (Bubbles!) I think there could be an amazing arc breaking up Marten and Claire...
(But maybe my own personal tastes in what does and doesn't work for ME is colouring my desires!)
Because truthfully, how many First Ever Relationships last *that* long?
Especially ones which came out of nowhere - and started due to a drunkern hook-up - where they start to live together so quickly.
One might be tempted to say Jeph is making the relationship-al life of a Male and a Trans-Woman look too easy.
I seem to have strayed from the point of the original brief...
Umm...
"Tilly sucks!"
(There we go! Back on topic! :) )
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