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The Claireten Wedding

9 (3.5%)

An exploration of AI childhood

29 (11.2%)

Canon polyamorous relationship

22 (8.5%)

Crisis at Coffee of Doom (financial or staffing)

5 (1.9%)

Emily's origin story

28 (10.8%)

Hannelore seriously working on her AI charity

14 (5.4%)

Lots of Spookybot cameos pointing towards an Agenda of some sort

15 (5.8%)

Faye and Bubbles' big break in publicity terms may be a problem in disguise

19 (7.3%)

The Daligold Wedding!!! (With Momo and May as bridesmaids!!!)

11 (4.2%)

Angus returns and wants Faye back

19 (7.3%)

Corporate shenanigans at Ellicott-Chatham Incorporated

19 (7.3%)

Sam IS struggling at school; the main cast try to help

14 (5.4%)

After an unspecified issue, Marten, Faye, Bubbles, Claire and Hannelore have to move into a new house

23 (8.9%)

First night at the new (and LEGAL) Ultimate Robot Fighting League

26 (10%)

Other (please describe in comments)

6 (2.3%)

Total Members Voted: 81

[ToodleLew]

Beatrice knows both how difficult Hannelore's childhood was, and how far she has come since maturing and leaving the station.  Here's a hypothesis for you: Tilly is not the naive "personal assistant" they put on to be. Instead, Dr. Tilly Birch is a well-trained psychologist involved in an elaborate effort by Beatrice to establish exactly how "well" Hannelore has become. Beatrice, having seen the progress that Hannelore has made since becoming earthbound has requested professional assistance in determining the extent of that progress, leading to  an "experiment"; Dr. Birch would pose as an over-eager personal assistant foisted on Hannelore by Beatrice, and (in concert with Beatrice) would "push" Hannelore. How Hannelore reacts to this push would permit Dr. Birch and Beatrice to evaluate Hannelore's stability and resiliancy. 

[Is it cold in here?]

I would hope that would result in an ethics complaint.

OK, I see reasons to take Tilly along on the trip, I see reasons to leave them outside for the meeting, but those two sets of reasons do not overlap. Why take them along and then leave them out?

[peacetokengy]

I really miss Angus. Every day I hope to get a hint that he will be back.

[Gyrre]

Bea, "I have NEVER been prouder of you!"

Hanners, "What."

So much for that.

[shanejayell]

Yup, I was wrong.

[zmeiat_joro]

Everything seems completely normal to me, I would have reacted the exact same way Hannelore did in her situation.

[Shjade]

The shark tank and wood chipper sort of did the building for us.

The shark tank that had whale sharks in it because she doesn't even know the difference between sharks that are dangerous to humans and sharks that aren't?

Not really building anything more for the Beatrice-is-a-competent-villain case there.

[zmeiat_joro]

I get your point, but...  yeah, they're different kinds of shark. Can we go back to the character of Beatrice?

[TheEvilDog]

The shark tank and wood chipper sort of did the building for us.

The shark tank that had whale sharks in it because she doesn't even know the difference between sharks that are dangerous to humans and sharks that aren't?

Not really building anything more for the Beatrice-is-a-competent-villain case there.

Note though that Beatrice's immediate response to finding out that whale sharks weren't dangerous to humans was to suggest the Fargo way doing things and feed someone into a wood chipper. Beatrice might not be the competent villain but she's definitely got the psychotic part down pat.

[zmeiat_joro]

Why are all the comments after Castlerook's suddenly deleted?

[Smallest]

Daaamnellore

[Smallest]

Beatrice knows both how difficult Hannelore's childhood was, and how far she has come since maturing and leaving the station.  Here's a hypothesis for you: Tilly is not the naive "personal assistant" they put on to be. Instead, Dr. Tilly Birch is a well-trained psychologist involved in an elaborate effort by Beatrice to establish exactly how "well" Hannelore has become. Beatrice, having seen the progress that Hannelore has made since becoming earthbound has requested professional assistance in determining the extent of that progress, leading to  an "experiment"; Dr. Birch would pose as an over-eager personal assistant foisted on Hannelore by Beatrice, and (in concert with Beatrice) would "push" Hannelore. How Hannelore reacts to this push would permit Dr. Birch and Beatrice to evaluate Hannelore's stability and resiliancy.

Speaking as a mentally ill person, that's super fucking gross. If Jeph went with that story (and I think he knows better to, but if) I'd actually stop reading.

[Shjade]

Note though that Beatrice's immediate response to finding out that whale sharks weren't dangerous to humans was to suggest the Fargo way doing things and feed someone into a wood chipper. Beatrice might not be the competent villain but she's definitely got the psychotic part down pat.

Until we actually see one of her wood chipper/volcano/sun-launch victims, I'm going to continue assuming she's all bluster, no blast.

I mean, it's a comedic webcomic. She's a funny caricature of the extreme amoral CEO, but that's all she's ever seemed to be to me.

Spookybot's the closest thing we've had to a legit life-ending villain in QC. That is someone I'd be thinking serious thoughts about re: oh shit what's going to be the fallout from this?

But it's just Beatrice, so nah, not worried.

[Perfectly Reasonable]

A day without Tilly is like a day without sunstroke.

But maybe (just maybe) Tilly will justify their existence by putting the finishing move to this arc.
(holding my breath...)

[shanejayell]

Or in a twist Tilly goes in after Hanners and goes to Bea. "I'm sorry, ma'am. Things didn't go as expected."

Implying there WAS a plan but Hanners going off wasn't part of it.

[Milayna]

I'm kinda surprised at the level of Tilly hate. I don't like them very much myself cause they're annoying but not as strongly as the other people here...

[MrNumbers]

You gotta think of it in terms of spotlight and screen real estate.

Every panel with Tilly in it is a panel not being given to literally any other character.

[Tova]

Every panel with Tilly in it is a panel not being given to literally any other character.

Okay, that's not true now, is it? Tilly hasn't been giving monologues in every panel they have appeared in.

Anyway, can we not slip back into this discussion? This thread has (generally) been enjoyable so far.

[maneyan]

Aaaand there it all came crashing down, the enormity of what she just did, the fact that she hoped so long for something that wasn't there... Poor Hannelore.

Also, I wonder what it says that she actually is OK with touching Tilly. I wonder if maybe they got better along than it initially seemed after the boundaries were put up.

[Bollthorn]

Poor kitten Hanners

[Near Lurker]

I think Tilly just aced the world's hardest job interview.

...also holy fuck Hanners is hugging 'em?!

[BenRG]

She's just told her mother that she doesn't really want her to be part of her life. That isn't the easiest thing to do and it is certainly not an easy thing to live with.

Tilly? If you want to prove your PA credentials, get her home and call her friends. That's all that she needs right now.

I think Tilly just aced the world's hardest job interview.

...also holy fuck Hanners is hugging 'em?!

Sometimes, it doesn't matter how afraid you are of contact; you just need to have someone to physically be there for you.

[traroth]

Does it bother anyone else that Hannelore has been all "I'm not your boss, I don't need a PA" since Tilly arrived, but AFTER the two days has ended and she's shown her the door, she has no problem with "oh hey PA, book us some plane tickets"?

Not at all.  This arc is about Hanners transforming, in many ways into her mother, something she does not want to do.   And Tova is very correct, Hannelore is seeing Tilly as a weaker victim of the same tormentor.

I don't see Hanners transforming into her mother, in those strips. Confronting someone who is making your life miserable is not being bad. Hanners hasn't done anything wrong. Even more, she actually somehow seems to care about Tilly. After firing them, she just could have moved on with her life, but she choose to confront her mother because of the way Beatrice treated Tilly, not her. Granted, it was just the last straw, but it's obvious Hanners care about people, which is a major difference with her mother.

[ChipNoir]

I'm just kinda side eyeing the speculation and kinda wanna go "Shut up, this is an emotional moment."

Buuuut I know that's what discussion forums are for. All the same. Geeze. Emotions, they're deep on this one. I've seen this kinda thing unfold before, and it's never pretty.

So I got the deepest feels for Hanners on this.

[WoaLG]

I've been where Hanners is. (Though my parents aren't a space scientist and a corporate overlord. Just a teacher and a car parts salesman) It's incredibly painful to tell your family that you don't want them in your life

[TinPenguin]

Does it bother anyone else that Hannelore has been all "I'm not your boss, I don't need a PA" since Tilly arrived, but AFTER the two days has ended and she's shown her the door, she has no problem with "oh hey PA, book us some plane tickets"?

It seems like deliberate irony. She ends up needing the PA her mother assigned her, to help her confront her mother about assigning her a PA against her will.

What happens to Tilly now is unclear. Could be a "this was your last assignment" situation.

[Bad Superman]

I've been where Hanners is. (Though my parents aren't a space scientist and a corporate overlord. Just a teacher and a car parts salesman) It's incredibly painful to tell your family that you don't want them in your life

Maybe it's because I'm lacking this "You Had To Be There"-Factor, that made this week's arc not have as deep of an impact on me as it obviously had on some of you. But that's cool. It just means that I could not connect with Hannelore as much as you could, in this situation.
Her internal conflict was the main driving force, not the external conflict (the one I was hoping for) with her mother. Another error in judgment on my part. I expected more of Beatrice.
Oh well… let's see now, how the QC crew deals with the emotional fallout. I think Hannelore can use every bit of support she can get right now.

[JoeCovenant]

I see nothing here that justifies Tilly sticking around.

The only thing that has been done PA-wise was buying the plane tickets.
Which, as others have stated, does kinda go against Hanners' initial "I don't need a PA"...
(and she still doesn't... she works in a coffee shop).

As for the emotional collapse, I wouldn't read too much about Tilly being the one she collapsed upon... Tilly was the only one *there*.

There's no 'need' for this to turn into any kind of friendship, because Tilly hasn't been a friend. Tilly's been an employee.
Even here, after being told not to, Tilly is STILL calling Hanners "Ma'am"... which isn't what you want when you're letting down all your barriers in such a manner.

BAD Tilly... No biscuit!

(Oh.. and Hanners 'shoved' her mum?  B.F.D.!)

[Tova]

Okay, so I have a genuine question for those who expected more from Beatrice.

What did you expect Beatrice to say in this situation?

[BenRG]

What did you expect Beatrice to say in this situation?

I, for one, expected Beatrice to be more aggressive with Hannelore - Make threats about making her friends 'pay' for her daughter's defiance and make it clear that their suffering would be Hannelore's fault. I wasn't expecting Beatrice to be so shocked at Hannelore coming at her so aggressively that she was shocked into silence.

FWIW, I still think that it is possible that tomorrow's strip will be Beatrice instructing her own PA to begin some kind of 'special project', the exact details of which will be unstated but which is heavily implied to be retribution against Hannelore.

[Tova]

What did you expect Beatrice to say in this situation?

Make threats about making her friends 'pay' for her daughter's defiance and make it clear that their suffering would be Hannelore's fault.

Seriously?

[Bad Superman]

What did you expect Beatrice to say in this situation?

Hm… depends…
She could have tried to justify her action ("If the deal with Taffys father vanishes, almost 5.000 people will lose their jobs!"), or have a sudden moment of realisation and regret ("OMG, Hannelore! I didn’t know! I’m so sorry!"). A worst case scenario would have also been possible ("How dare you threaten me?!? Security! Throw those two trespassers out! If they try to get back in *ever*, taser them!"), or even something completely crazy (*sigh* "Okay, this one was a failure. Tell the lab to thaw out the next one, and give her the new programming we talked about...")

From my point of view, any reaction from Beatrice would have been better that no reaction at all. But there's still one comic left for this week…

[BenRG]

Seriously?

Yes. There's precedent; the last time Beatrice was a significant character, she idly threatened to ruin Marten's credit rating if he didn't take the money she staked when she bet Hannelore couldn't touch a toilet seat. This is a petty woman capable of petty acts of revenge if she thinks she's being disrespected.

[RMc]

I don't know how this gets resolved, but I'm sure it will be a silly cliche or two, 'cuz that's how this comic rolls.

Yep, called it. Sigh.

[Wildroses]

It'll be interesting to see how Beatrice responds when she gets over her shock. I don't think she realised Hannelore could be pushed too far and has a spine. Maybe she'll be shaken and realise she actually wants her daughter not to hate her, maybe she'll turn around to get revenge, maybe she'll do her inept best to make it up to her daughter with unhelpful gifts.

I'll also be interested to see if Tilly becomes a semi-regular character or not. I don't mind if she does. I don't really get the people who dislike her because she is taking screen time away from the current regulars. If Jeph never introduced new characters, a lot of beloved regular current characters would never have been introduced in the first place (such as Hannelore).

But from a story perspective I'm not sure how an unwanted personal assistant could stay. I get the impression Tilly thinks having a job is important long term, although short term she'll want to get Hannelore comforted and home. Maybe her father will come into play. From the way he asked about espionage in that  phone call on the first day on the job, I wonder if he had been hoping for Tilly to be a plant in Beatrice's empire, and seeing as that is obviously not happening maybe he'll send her somewhere else.

[Tova]

Seriously?

Yes. There's precedent; the last time Beatrice was a significant character, she idly threatened to ruin Marten's credit rating if he didn't take the money she staked when she bet Hannelore couldn't touch a toilet seat. This is a petty woman capable of petty acts of revenge if she thinks she's being disrespected.

I'm sure she's capable of it. But what do you think she would achieve by doing so?

"Hanners has cut off ties. How to fix it? I know! Threaten to hurt her friends! Makes perfect sense."

It would be a completely self-defeating move.

[BenRG]

I'm sure she's capable of it. But what do you think she would achieve by doing so?

It's simple enough. After all, she's doing nothing illegal other than ordering companies she owns to be extra zealous about calling in debts, extra aware about people's credit histories and the like. So, the only thing Hannelore can do to stop it is re-open contact with her mother and do whatever she tells her to in order to persuade her to call off her minions.

removed by moderator

[Tova]

I asked what it would achieve, not how she would go about it. And I'd appreciate it if you'd lay off the condescending insults, please.

[pwhodges]

she's doing nothing illegal other than ordering companies she owns to be extra zealous about calling in debts, extra aware about people's credit histories and the like.

That only works for people who are in debt and have a dodgy credit history - not the case for Hanners, surely!

[BenRG]

Okay, that last paragraph was uncalled for and is withdrawn.

Just in case you missed it, though, I did explain what it is supposed to achieve:

So, the only thing Hannelore can do to stop it is re-open contact with her mother and do whatever she tells her to in order to persuade her to call off her minions.

Even this isn't unprecedented. Apart from the unusual means, abusive parents commonly use coercive means to get their way. It's just that they normally don't have the means to target their children's associates as well as their children themselves. It makes narrative sense in this case because Beatrice actually has very few levers to use on Hannelore herself (mostly because her ex-husband would certainly get in the way). However, through her personal commercial power, she has lots of means to attack Hannelore's friends and she knows that this would be just as personally coercive to Hannelore as any direct attack.

[Tova]

I saw that, so I think I am not explaining myself well.

I can see how that might persuade Hanners to "do whatever Beatrice tells her" (although I think it's more likely that what would actually happen is that she'd call in Station).

But the issue is that Hanners has cut off ties. That is, their relationship has been destroyed.

This action might persuade Hanners to resume communication, but it would permanently destroy their relationship. Thus, it would be an entirely self-defeating move on Beatrice's part.

That is what I am trying to say.

I can see what you are saying about abusive parents, but I don't think that what you've suggest is the method she would choose. Some form of emotional blackmail would, in my opinion, be more likely, if she was to try anything and if she were in fact abusive.

But in fact, I see Beatrice more as a grossly neglectful parent, even though the effect is that of abuse. Thus, I don't think she would reach for emotional blackmail either.

I think Beatrice was blindsided because she honestly had no idea of the seriousness of the effect her actions were having on Hannelore. Thus, her reaction is exactly what I expected.

Am I explaining myself better?

[BenRG]

But the issue is that Hanners has cut off ties. That is, their relationship has been destroyed.

This action might persuade Hanners to resume communication, but it would permanently destroy their relationship. Thus, it would be an entirely self-defeating move on Beatrice's part.

That is what I am trying to say.

Ah, I see the problem here.

I think that the problem is that we see the character of Beatrice Chatham in entirely different ways. I see her as a "Let Hannelore hate me so long as she fears me and obeys me" person. She won't care if their personal relationship is totally destroyed so long as their professional relationship remains in the way she wants it to be. To me, Beatrice sees Hannelore as essentially just another possession to use as she sees fit. I've seen no indication that she in any way consciously craves Hannelore's love and an emotional connection with her; her only goal is that Hannelore be the child and heir she wants her to be.

[Tova]

Yes, you're right. We do.

I see her as being so driven in her business that she has completely forgotten that her relationship with her daughter is something she also needs to put some effort into.

So, I guess you're seeing her expression in the last panel of yesterday's comic as her being upset that Hanners no longer obeys her.

Whereas I see it (very loosely speaking) as a "cat's in the cradle" moment.

Edit: to back up my position, I present comic #922. Maybe you think she's being dishonest? I think she's being honest. She's just... a bad mother.

[BenRG]

So, I guess you're seeing her expression in the last panel of yesterday's comic as her being upset that Hanners no longer obeys her.

More shock. Not only was Hannelore's behaviour broadly unprecedented in their relationship (they've argued but never to that point). Also I doubt that Beatrice is used to not getting her way and the experience is bizarre and new enough to stun her into inaction.

[Tova]

Well, actually, I do agree with you there. Absolutely.

But I also think it's more than that. She's lost her daughter. And I think she does care.

At least we've both reached a point where we each have an explanation for Beatrice being stunned into silence rather than returning serve, which was the initial point of the entire conversation, so I guess I'll settle for that for now.

[Tova]

What did you expect Beatrice to say in this situation?

Hm… depends…
She could have tried to justify her action ("If the deal with Taffys father vanishes, almost 5.000 people will lose their jobs!"), or have a sudden moment of realisation and regret ("OMG, Hannelore! I didn’t know! I’m so sorry!"). A worst case scenario would have also been possible ("How dare you threaten me?!? Security! Throw those two trespassers out! If they try to get back in *ever*, taser them!"), or even something completely crazy (*sigh* "Okay, this one was a failure. Tell the lab to thaw out the next one, and give her the new programming we talked about...")

From my point of view, any reaction from Beatrice would have been better that no reaction at all. But there's still one comic left for this week…

Sorry I didn't respond to this immediately, but thanks for this response - I see what you were after now. I wouldn't have expected the last one personally, but the others would certainly be plausible.

I think what happened is actually more dramatic, but that's just me. 

Cheers!

[Technoir]

Ignoring the Tilly persistence in the strip and moving on to an observation/question...

Anybody else think Hanners looked a lot like Ellen DeGeneres in that outfit?

[Prestwick]

I've been where Hanners is. (Though my parents aren't a space scientist and a corporate overlord. Just a teacher and a car parts salesman) It's incredibly painful to tell your family that you don't want them in your life

I can echo this. I've been in the room or in on the conversation when this has happened. I've seen people literally reduced to tears and their knees because their family or parents are so impossible or infuriating that they have no choice but to cut ties.

Beatrice in this case is someone who in my view is insistent that mother knows best and so far mother believes that her daughter's interests are best served weaning her away from her current life and job and towards what Beatrice believes is her destiny of assuming the reigns of a highly successful business. Hanner's opinion - up until this point - frankly did not come into the equation hence why her increasingly angry and frantic protests had fallen on deaf ears or been batted away and rationalised as those of a spoilt brat or someone being overly dramatic.

Hence the breaking point and the raw anger and emotion from Hanners on Wednesday. I was one of the - admittedly few - people who believed that the argument was going to be left there primarily because Hanner's outburst was so out of character and so out of the ordinary for her that it would have shocked any of the characters in this story into silence.

What Beatrice most certainly isn't is a tyrant. Not towards her own flesh and blood anyway. Yes we have seen evidence of her cruelty and casual malice but what we haven't got is any evidence of abuse - physical, verbally vindictive or sadistic anyway - towards Hanners and the emotional abuse we've seen thus far appears to be on the "misguided parenting and child neglect" side of the scale. She doesn't appear to be the person to take deliberate vindictive action to actively hurt Hanners, Tilly or any of their friends in order to settle scores.

Therefore I really do not see any reaction from Beatrice apart from either trying to insist on business as usual - and being met by silence or a refusal to communicate from Hanners - or some kind of hamfisted and botched apology followed by another attempt to rationalise what was really some bloody awful parenting over the years.

[OldGoat]

Is that a crying towel Tilly's carrying?  Nevermind, it's just their* jacket. 

Would Beatrice actually follow through with ruining a plebeian?  All of Hannelore's Northampton friends are otherwise below her notice.  She had to be damn near on-her-lips drunk with her mountain of inhibitions dissolved in ethanol to even joke about doing it.  Beatrice is silent because she's having flashbacks to the emotional abuse she suffered at the hands of her own mother.  Child abusers were almost always themselves abused and it takes confrontation and conscious effort to break the cycle.  Perhaps this will segue to Bea's backstory.


*("It's just zir jacket"?  I like that better - doesn't leave me thinking "Are Tilly and Hannelore both supposed to fit into that thing, or do they take turns wearing it?")

[bhtooefr]

They've said that their preferred pronouns are the "they" family, not any of the neologisms for gender-neutral pronouns, so it is their jacket.