Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
Something bothering me a lot
Aenno:
--- Quote from: cloudatlatl on 10 Feb 2018, 08:16 ---
--- Quote from: Aenno on 09 Feb 2018, 21:14 ---My thoughts about this statement can't be written safely, because Russian laws directly forbid using hard-lined mat in a public space.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: ckridge on 10 Feb 2018, 06:39 ---Hunh. You aren't allowed to curse online. Weird. I will moderate my language too, then, so as not to tempt you into trouble.
--- End quote ---
I don't think Aenno was talking about cursing, I think this was referring to Russia's laws against anything that could be perceived as 'homosexual propaganda'.
--- End quote ---
Not exactly, and I was kinda joking (kinda - because said laws really exists, I just don't ever believe any police structure would ever notice it here). Sorry, I'm actually in a deep night by my time (for instance, it's 5:30 AM here now) when I come here, and sometimes forgot that some jokes have cultural context to understand and just make a literal from Russian.
Russian language culturally has different layers of swearing. Simple things like "dickhead" or "fucking morons" are something ok, but it isn't something that is used when you're really pissed off. Then it's real things are like "ебстить твою охуевающую пиздоблядскую сраноопроушину матерну раз по девяти бабку в спину деда в плешь" (something like "fuck your fuckoffed pussysluty shitty emptyheaded mother nine times, and your grandma to the back, and your grandfa to the bald"; it's literal, but there is consensus that russian mat isn't actually translatable). That's simple example, actual forms can be longer. It's kinda traditional - first written forms are dated from 15 century. This called "mat" (from cut "мать", "mother" - because traditionaly most forms, called "загибы" (zagibs), including something about your mother).
Actually not many people this days can use it really right, and simple cut forms used, and even them aren't actually allowed in formal context, but there is a traditional reply on something that pissed you a lot. "I'd say everything I'm thinking about it, but matting isn't allowed in such a nice place". And things like "hey, you have too many LGBT in your artwork!" is really something that pissing me off hardly. You see, it's quite popular thoughts here and today, with a little "it was Yankees who gave us all this LGBT shits, when we was behind Iron Curtain, we haven't anything like that!", and I actually was researching how it was when we was behind Iron Curtain. It was exist, and it's really wasn't pretty.
--- Quote ---Oh. Oh, dear. Noted. OK, tricky but doable. Language is infinitely flexible. I should probably try to review those laws.
--- End quote ---
You can, but you really shouldn't if you're not a researcher. I mean, we have laws about homosexual propaganda, sure. It's a federal law 436-FZ "On Protection of Children from Information Harmful to Their Health and Development”.
In a nutshell, it isn't allowed if I speak something that executive (yeah, not juridical) administration would accept as "information that is harmful to children health and development". In a current law revision such information is everything that:
1. provoking children to harm their own health or life, including self-harm;
2. is able to suggest children to get any kind of narcotic, including tobacco or alcohol, or get into prostitution, vagrancy or begging;
3. justifying violence on humans or animals;
4. denying traditional family values, propagandizing non-traditional sexual relationships or provoking showing disrespect on parents and (or) other family members;
5. justifying unlawful actions;
6. including obscene language;
7. including pornographic content;
8. any info about minor who is a victim of the crime.
So if I speak anything about it, governmental official can demand me to remove it. If I refuse, medium where I did it can be sanctioned, and I can be punished.
In the first it was for registered media only. Then they equaled any site with, I believe, 1000+ unique visits per day to media.
So if you says anything like "LGBT relations is ok", or "sometimes you should stand up and break the law to do things right", or "I run from my parents in 14 living on the street, and it was useful experience" - it CAN be declared as misdemeanor. Or not, because the very nature of modern Russian law enforcement is that it's optional and selective (and our laws actually allowing to punish everybody).
--- Quote ---The problem of how to make well-developed robot characters look truly strange is exacerbated by the very wide range of human types in QC. It was relatively easy for '50s and '60s writers to write strange characters, because everyone was still trying to act like everyone else. In a social circle containing Emily, Brun, Tilly, and Faye, it is hard to step outside the bounds of human social behavior.
--- End quote ---
Yup, and that's fantastic. When you have humans like that (and I can actually swear on my diploma that they're realistic!) you don't need robots to research xenia.
EDIT: Actually, as I said in the beginning, that's why I even started to worry. You see, QC, in my option, is the best thing about weird humans still stays humans and having human problems I seen in years. They aren't perfect, they aren't miserable, and they aren't more caricatures that genre declaring. That's brilliant, and that's what hooked me.
--- Quote ---I think the spider robots are like those guys who wear neckbeards and sandals with socks and who, when told that this puts people off, will explain that it is more efficient and rational, and thus should not bother anyone.
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Is that exact types of guys you would put into social worker position? ;)
--- Quote ---Do you know about phenomenology? :mrgreen:
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Yeah! :)
--- Quote ---Can you still uphold your distinction that the sensual stimuli received are not, in fact, sensual stimuli? What if the simulation is sufficiently complex that the brain itself can no longer recognize that it is in a simulation? Then your verdict ("no body, ergy no sensory stimulation") would be in conflict with the verdict of the brain experiencing those "questionable stimuli". Does using the term 'sensory stimuli' require actual, physical senses to be attached to the brain?
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Actually it does. But you definitely can fool a brain and make it to think it have some sensory information. That wouldn't be "sensory stimuly", but brain inside would never tell the difference.
Because, hell, we're so non-perfect.
--- Quote ---If you haven't already, I highly recommend watching Carpenter's 1974 SF-comedy Dark Star. Add a few like-minded friends (the nerdier, the better) and mind-altering substances (beer should suffice) for an optimal experience.
--- End quote ---
I did. Without mind-altering drugs, but after big philosophy cycle. It worked even better!
ckridge:
>When you have humans like that (and I can actually swear on my diploma that they're realistic!) you don't need robots to research xenia.<
"Why do we need more diversity when we are so diverse already?"
Because love of the strange and different is insatiable, and because insatiability is its greatest virtue. Nothing is more certain than that we are going to run into creatures and situations stranger than we have never imagined. It probably won't be conscious, sensate robots in our lifetimes, but a lot of people are going to have their children growing up loving chatbot teddy bears and chatbot teaching machines and more than half-believing that they are people. We are all likely to wind up living around people from very foreign cultures. We are all likely to wind up living around people from very bad places, people with sexual tastes that never even occurred to us, mentally ill people in partial remission, and people neurologically atypical in rare and unclassified ways. This already happens, so we can be sure it will happen. In addition, we will be presented with people and circumstances nothing like anything we have ever imagined and stranger than we can imagine. For this reason, it is good to delight in strange new people simply because they are strange and new.
And for this reason, it is useful and good to imagine what it would be like to be friends, or perhaps lovers, with a super badass AI lady.
ckridge:
I'm not trying to argue you out of your position, by the way, only help you clarify it. It is far better to hate something lucidly, specifically, passionately, and in great detail than it is to feel merely bothered by it.
Aenno:
--- Quote from: ckridge on 11 Feb 2018, 11:09 --->When you have humans like that (and I can actually swear on my diploma that they're realistic!) you don't need robots to research xenia.<
"Why do we need more diversity when we are so diverse already?"
--- End quote ---
Nah. "Let's have more diversity, not shrinking being AIs into being humans; or let's allow humans being as diverse as they really are."
ckridge:
We don't have to worry about shrinking AIs into being humans because AIs don't exist. AIs are fantastical creatures, like trolls, space aliens, elves, or Morlocks.
As to representing human diversity, older forms of story-telling like serial art, ballads, folk tales, epics, and romances present characters in vivid outline, not in detail. This works fine for kinds of people everyone knows about already, like the human characters in QC. Audience members each fill in the detail from their own experiences, and this both involves them and makes them feel like they are re-joining a circle of friends they had somehow forgotten. Sketches won't do for the sorts of people they haven't met yet, though, and so new and unexpected kinds of people are represented by various fantastic creatures. That is just the way the form works. In The Odyssey it is the Cyclops. In folk tales it is monsters and the fair folk. In romances it was giants and sorcerers. Here it is robots. That's the way the form has worked time out of mind. If you want a wide and realistic representation of human diversity, you go to short stories and novels, which offer much more detail and differentiation, but which are longer, slower, less vivid, and more bound to particular cultures.
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