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Star Wars 9
Theta9:
--- Quote from: Case on 28 Nov 2019, 08:10 ---
--- Quote from: BenRG on 03 Nov 2019, 09:34 ---It's a nice snark but, to me, the 'Balance' was always an issue of the extreme nature of both side's views: Absolute Light vs Absolute Dark. There has to be some kind of third path. Some controversial Jedi, like Qui-Gon were trying to find it.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Theta9 on 03 Nov 2019, 10:29 ---I'm curious as to how Yoda and the council were "toxic".
--- End quote ---
I couldn't support the point without essentially copy-pasting the better part of several interlocking EU-trilogies....
--- End quote ---
The books are not canon. Only the recent Aftermath trilogy is canon, bridging the gap between eps 6 and 7. Not even Zahn's excellent Thrawn trilogy, a better Episode 7 than The Force Awakens could aspire to be, is canon since the new films started coming out.
JoeCovenant:
--- Quote from: Theta9 on 29 Nov 2019, 07:39 ---
--- Quote from: Case on 28 Nov 2019, 08:10 ---
--- Quote from: BenRG on 03 Nov 2019, 09:34 ---It's a nice snark but, to me, the 'Balance' was always an issue of the extreme nature of both side's views: Absolute Light vs Absolute Dark. There has to be some kind of third path. Some controversial Jedi, like Qui-Gon were trying to find it.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Theta9 on 03 Nov 2019, 10:29 ---I'm curious as to how Yoda and the council were "toxic".
--- End quote ---
I couldn't support the point without essentially copy-pasting the better part of several interlocking EU-trilogies....
--- End quote ---
The books are not canon. Only the recent Aftermath trilogy is canon, bridging the gap between eps 6 and 7. Not even Zahn's excellent Thrawn trilogy, a better Episode 7 than The Force Awakens could aspire to be, is canon since the new films started coming out.
--- End quote ---
Which is another ludicrous decision.
They were canon enough for 30+ years! :)
Tova:
--- Quote from: JoeCovenant on 29 Nov 2019, 06:37 ---
--- Quote from: Tova on 29 Nov 2019, 05:33 ---
--- Quote from: JoeCovenant on 29 Nov 2019, 04:28 ---Anyway... THAT is why "Us Star Wars fans" are of the opinion that it's a totally false comparison to even attempt to give Luke and Rey the same "neither of them had any training" backstory. Luke did... lot's of it... and we always knew he did.
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No, we didn't. That's what I'm saying.
--- End quote ---
You may not have.
Others did. (Us "hardcore fans" as you put it ;) )
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Yes. I know.
I am perhaps not explaining myself to you clearly.
Two films contain similar plot holes. One, you scrabble to explain. The other, you dismiss as "Bad Storytelling."
Maybe in the future, there will be enough books added to the canon to fill the plot holes in your head for you. Or maybe not, if you don't want them to.
TheEvilDog:
That's always going to be a problem though.
Novels have been written about what happened between A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back and between that and Return of the Jedi, each one explaining what happened and filled in the gaps between the films. Then Disney decided "Nope" and we get the Legends continuity instead. And we're back to a point where its left to the fans to fill in the gaps, again.
Most people have some scant bit of information to work with;
- We know that the Jedi Archives weren't completely destroyed. (Various sources from the movies, series and comics)
- We know that Qui Gon Jinn was able to become a Force Ghost. (End of Revenge of the Sith)
- We know that he was able to pass that information to his former Master and his former Padawan. (End of RotS)
- We know that Obi Wan was able to communicate with Luke. (Trench run, A New Hope)
- We know that Lando and Chewie are going to search for Han. (End of The Empire Strikes Back)
- We know that Luke needed time to process Vader being Anakin Skywalker, and that he needed to recover from his injuries and ass being kicked. (Empire Strikes Back)
So from all that, we can assume that Obi Wan was able to help teach Luke something between films and that Luke confronted him about the "I-didn't-lie,-I-just-didn't-tell-you-the-whole-story". But he also needed to train and learn something more than Force Throwing stuff around. Luke wasn't a Jedi Master going to Jabba's palace, he was a crash-coursed Jedi Knight who had to improvise a lot.
The final confrontation with Darth Vader was as much a psychological battle that started well before the lightsabers were broken out. Not to mention that Luke was a young man fighting a crippled burn victim well past his own prime. Vader's only advantage was brute strength and even then that was lost when he threatened Leia.
From what we also seen, its quite possible that some people who quite powerful in the Force don't necessarily need training in their abilities, possibly because its so natural for them, the real training from the Sith and Jedi is how to properly focus that ability.
Tova:
--- Quote from: Castlerook on 29 Nov 2019, 13:50 ---From what we also seen, its quite possible that some people who quite powerful in the Force don't necessarily need training in their abilities, possibly because its so natural for them, the real training from the Sith and Jedi is how to properly focus that ability.
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This seems like a natural interpretation of many of the films.
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