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Star Wars 9
Case:
--- Quote from: JoeCovenant on 03 Dec 2019, 09:49 ---
--- Quote from: Tova on 03 Dec 2019, 04:37 ---Headcanon examples are not, no.
--- End quote ---
And if I had only been using headcanon, I would agree with you.
...
--- End quote ---
Hmmmmh - I see both of your points.
I agree with Tova that Rey's not needing much in the way of instruction is qualitatively not much different from Luke's besting Vader with only the barest amount of supervised training when considered from a post-prequel point of view.
I agree with you that Luke at least did receive some supervised training, and did undergo some semblance of a painful-learning journey - it was at least hinted at that noone can simply pick up a lightsaber and cut a powerful Dark Jedi to pieces because [We don't have time for a proper Hero's Journey].
I'll point out again that Luke's lack of training wasn't considered so egregious when the original trilogy came out because the prequel trilogy, which features Anakin's painstaking journey to master the Force over more than a decade, hadn't been created yet. As far as an 80s audience was concerned, Luke's could have been a perfectly proper Jedi training - there wasn't any other yardstick, no other Jedi-in-training had yet been shown.
In retrospect, i.e. from a post-prequel POV, both Luke and Rey are hilariously overpowered savants by the standard established in the prequels - i.e. the amount of training Anakin needed - especially in light of Anakin being touted as the strongest Jedi in aeons. IMO, Luke's case is already 'straining my suspension of disbelief, but [Screaming Spaceships. SCREAMING. IN SPACE ...]'. With Rey, they simply abandoned every pretence of even trying.
And yes, that is bad storytelling. Doesn't make the other example perfect, or even good storytelling, however.
Case:
Also, let's all be fwiends. Please?
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMFFXDGFDtE
Tova:
Just dropping in to say:
I've been terse in recent times mainly because I'm time-poor.
I will get to replying to Joe's post when I am not so time-poor. Which will be Real Soon Now.
I promise to be nice. :angel:
I apologise if my terse posts are coming across as hostile or hotheaded. That's unintended. Any actual annoyance is at Joe's opinions, not at Joe who I still think is a Good Bloke (tm).
JoeCovenant:
Couldn't find the last panel on its own anywhere! :)
Tova:
So, now that I have a bit of time, I guess the time has come to post something.
I was originally going to post more or less an essay. Then I decided, no stuff it, I'm posting nothing because it's pointless. Then I watched an amusing video that thought along my lines and thought to post that. Then I binned that idea as well.
Now, freed from the foolish idea of needing to convince anyone, an idea more doomed than a band of misfits' raid on an Imperial databank, I'll just dump my feelings on the matter and leave it there.
I was a kid when Star Wars came out. I played with the toys, I listened to the soundtrack. So I'm in the dead centre of the Star-Wars-nostalgia-kick demographic. Even though - I'll be honest with you - my immediate reaction to the major plot twist in Empire was, "Oh God, this is silly, my favourite thing is going soap operaish."
The whole movement of taking Star Wars Very Seriously, cataloging Force Powers, reams of expanded universe (or whatever it's been variously called during its long period of change), and intense fan theories have largely passed me by.
I'm not going to comment on Rey's character arc until the whole thing is done. Not now that I've decided trying to get people to take a second look is pointless. But I will at least mention that I am honestly bamboozled by the common opinion that Luke has been "desecrated" or whatever. Luke is not only given the strongest character arc of any of the Star Wars films in TLJ, but he also goes out in a way that is a beautiful summation of everything he learned. That final scene of his is probably one of my favourite Star Wars scenes of all time, maybe even my favourite
I'm not even going to try and prosecute that. Either you see it or you don't.
It's popular on YouTube and elsewhere to point out Mark Hamill's comment that he initially thought Rian was making a mistake, but no-one takes seriously the fact that Mark also has said that he changed his mind, thinking he's only saying that because Disney or because he has to. Even though he's Luke freaking Skywalker and could surely say whatever the heck he wants, him more than anyone else.
Almost certainly this is all simply my bias. The opening moments of TLJ played out as I expected. I didn't arrive at the films with this preconceived idea that it was obvious Luke would be a Yoda-type figure to Rey and that things between Luke and Rey would play out similarly to Luke+Yoda in Empire. Why people wanted The Last Jedi in that sense to continue to be entirely derivative, I don't understand. But then again, a couple of years ago or whenever it was, I picked up Marvel's Vader comic and, while it had a couple of nice moments, I overall found it to be heavyhanded and far too obvious, simply filling in details with no obvious desire to substantially further the story (in contrast to TLJ which has a clear intent to do so). So I've come to terms with the idea that what I want from the Star Wars films is not at all the same as the kind of, I guess, baddassery and spectacle that attracts many fans.
Like I said, it's not worth getting into the Rey argument. There are perfectly good reasons why, for example, Rey could stand up to Kylo in TFA, but I'm sure you're perfectly aware of them in spite of not bothering to mention them, so it's pointless to bring them up.
That's all. I'll go and enjoy The Last Skywalker when it's released. Warts and all, most likely, since they all have their warts. Even Rogue One, which I thought was marvellous.
As ever, your mileage may vary. And that's your prerogative.
P.S. Okay, two links after all, because why not?
Episode 9 Bingo
Too Late, Who Gives a Shit?
The second one is a YouTube video over half an hour long. I mean, really? Don't watch it. I was amused. Maybe you won't be.
Also edit: words.
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