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poker for dogs

drugs

they make the bad porn back there

they publish the bad porn back there

counterfeit operation out of the "copy room"

unlicensed notary

fake I.D.s

pet shop

poker or other gambling

other (please specify)

purple monkey dishwashing service

[Tyr]

Or is the government a secret Spookybot project?     

It turns out that all AIs are just Spookybot inhabiting different chassis. And all humans, too.

I've read that ficlet.

[BenRG]

Okay, here's how I think things will go:

• Roko and May will go to the Parole office with the warranty form. The ParoleBot is more than pleased to file the warranty form in the appropriate cabinet but reiterates that there is no budget for May to have repairs or a new chassis; the most he can offer is something else from their warehouse full of second- and third-hand clunkers; it isn't anything personal, it's just a matter of policy that the Department of Correction doesn't budget to buy new or even recently-vacated chassis;
• ParoleBot confirms that May is welcome to buy a new chassis just as she is welcome to privately source repairs; the only rule is that any new chassis must be registered with the DoC as her 'new abode';
• In response to May asking if they'd want 'this piece of shit' back, ParoleBot says it's like a release suit, given to May to keep and it's up to her what she wants to do with it so long as it isn't illegal; frankly, they don't want it back as it would cost more to get it up to basic use condition for reassignment than it is worth;
• Roko gets ParoleBot to agree to give May an 'allowance', to the value of what the DoC would pay for a replacement chassis.

Roko's plan is to find someone who is willing to buy May's chassis (even if only for scrap) and combine both that and the allowance from the Department of Corrections to buy a somewhat-better chassis. So, it's off to Union Robotics to see if Faye and Bubbles can put together a decent chassis or at least buy May's old one and hold off taking possession until May has 'moved abode'. Jeremy and Seven from the Skate Park are there and that's where things get interesting.

How? One possibility is that Corpse Witch had a pristine, if not new, chassis on standby as a 'bolt hole' if she was ever indicted. Another is that Jeremy is willing to let May have a spare anthropomimetic chassis one of the fighters left behind as 'payment' to Corpse Witch for some favour.

Personal Wish:
The new chassis looks a lot like the form May's holo-avatar from her first appearance, with long, somewhat spiked hair from a top-knot.

[Zebediah]

Where'd the money May stole (well, tried to steal) come from?

A few years ago, in the Writing Club thread in another part of the forum, I wrote a possible backstory for May as part of my epic-length post-apocalyptic QC fanfic. Short version: she found a back door into the municipal accounting system of a notoriously corrupt Boston suburb. She figured, given that the software was designed to hide illicit withdrawals from the system, she could sneak out a little for herself and no one would notice until she was long gone. And never mind that the amount she tried to sneak out was six times the entire municipal budget of Somerville.

Not canon, but it’s not drastically in conflict with canon either.

[rtmq0227]

Poor Roko, though! She'll never be comfortable around exposed anatomy! I hesitate to think how she'd handle having to go to a butcher's shop (or even if she'd be able to handle it at all)!

I seem to remember her being perfectly fine with an AI walking into UR covered in cow...bits...
I think it's just AI anatomy that she's squeamish about.

[cybersmurf]

Poor Roko, though! She'll never be comfortable around exposed anatomy! I hesitate to think how she'd handle having to go to a butcher's shop (or even if she'd be able to handle it at all)!

I seem to remember her being perfectly fine with an AI walking into UR covered in cow...bits...
I think it's just AI anatomy that she's squeamish about.

She was disgusted by the cattle parts, but fainted at the dislocated finger.

I don't understand the technician's comment about a warranty form, since May's body is out of warranty.

I suspect it's some formal notice from a manufacturer's licensed tech that the unit is in poor condition and is beyond economical repair (total cost of repairs exceeds the resale value of the parts) and that the manufacturer recommends replacement.

There's an insurance term for that, in German it's "Totalschaden" - when repair costs exceed the value of the repaired thing. Insurances then will only pay the value of the thing at the time before the damage.



I wonder how many "favors" Roko will call in to get May a better chassis.

[Stoutfellow]

There's an insurance term for that, in German it's "Totalschaden" - when repair costs exceed the value of the repaired thing. Insurances then will only pay the value of the thing at the time before the damage.

The English term is "constructive total loss" - or it was, back in the '70s, when my mother was working in an insurance office.

[shanejayell]

You would think there would be a minimum standard for bodies you get on parole, or something. If only because the issues that might come up like, well, this case....

[BenRG]

I get the feeling  that this 'minimum standard' is terrifyingly low. Basically:

• Can move at a normal pace without falling apart;
• All joints work;
• Batteries hold enough charge to last at least 1 hour;
• All systems that consume resources are compatible with standard civilian supplies;
• Thermal regulation system is able to tolerate light work without bursting into flames;
• All omponents have a MTUTF (Mean Time Until Total Failure) of greater than 24 hours.

[cybersmurf]

There's an insurance term for that, in German it's "Totalschaden" - when repair costs exceed the value of the repaired thing. Insurances then will only pay the value of the thing at the time before the damage.

The English term is "constructive total loss" - or it was, back in the '70s, when my mother was working in an insurance office.

Thank you, now I that term.

I get the feeling  that this 'minimum standard' is terrifyingly low. Basically:

• Can move at a normal pace without falling apart;
• All joints work;
• Batteries hold enough charge to last at least 1 hour;
• All systems that consume resources are compatible with standard civilian supplies;
• Thermal regulation system is able to tolerate light work without bursting into flames;
• All omponents have a MTUTF (Mean Time Until Total Failure) of greater than 24 hours.

 - no immediate failures
 - energy cell(s) hold enough charge for working a whole shift without recharging.

[OldGoat]

It'll turn out to be a bureaucratic fuck-up. 

She was supposed to get a brand new low-end body but a bandicoot being chased by a bird ran across the desktop and scattered two piles of forms.  The card for a just delivered from the factory no-fancy-trim-but-very-reliable unit she was supposed to get slid behind a file cabinet (it's probably still there).  The form for her consciousness build ended up on the top of one pile and the one for the POS frame she's in now was at the top of the other.  The two got stapled together, May got downloaded into the pinchy-handed, Barbie-crotched, sans-nipples jalopy that was suitable for use only as a sentient department store manikin modeling coveralls, and, well, we know the rest.

[Is it cold in here?]

You would think there would be a minimum standard for bodies you get on parole, or something. If only because the issues that might come up like, well, this case....

Piper Kerman got released in some donated men's clothes that didn't fit. The situation for AIs may be no better.

Roko is a superb person for May to have at her side right now. She is no longer law enforcement but she will still send all the "We're in the same tribe" signals to the parole officer and contribute Respectability. She probably also has some inside knowledge of how to work a law enforcement bureaucracy.

The charity should start advertising for donations! Dress for Success, and other charities reachable by Google, accept lightly used interview clothing to give ex-cons a start. I just donated a suit yesterday to a place like that. There have just got to be unused chassis in closets.

[sitnspin]

There's an insurance term for that, in German it's "Totalschaden" - when repair costs exceed the value of the repaired thing. Insurances then will only pay the value of the thing at the time before the damage.

The English term is "constructive total loss" - or it was, back in the '70s, when my mother was working in an insurance office.

Here we just say "totaled".

[JimC]

Has the methods by which AIs pay for chassis been explored? Early characters had low functional chassis that seemed to be sort of consumer electronics pricing, and full body upgrades (Momo, Winslow) very expensive. I'm reminded of Anne McCaffrey's ship who sang series,  where the major characters are human brains encapsulated in spaceships which come with a debt that seems normally to take decades to pay off and is described in story as almost indented servitude.
May doesn't seem to have had a humanoid body pre gaol and apparently gets a minimally functional one on release. Roko and Bubbles may have got one as part of their job, in which case perhaps there was a minimum contract period or something, but what about others?

[Tova]

There's an insurance term for that, in German it's "Totalschaden" - when repair costs exceed the value of the repaired thing. Insurances then will only pay the value of the thing at the time before the damage.

The English term is "constructive total loss" - or it was, back in the '70s, when my mother was working in an insurance office.

Here we just say "totaled".

And in Australia, it's a write-off.

[TheEvilDog]

Same in Ireland, it'd be described as written off.

[Is it cold in here?]

Companion AIs seem to have their chassis paid for by their companion human. I don't remember seeing any explanation of how someone straight out of the creche gets their first body. Maybe they save up from jobs they can do from inside a server rack.

[Cornelius]

The question then seems to be why May want simply place in a server rack, with access to the outside world, when she was released, but was put in a chassis in the first place. You'd think that would be the cheaper option.

[BenRG]

My guess is that Dale was literally the only friend she'd ever made and she wanted to see him again. It's also possible that, due to the nature of her crime, it was decided that putting her in another non-embodied environment would be putting too much temptation in her way.

[cybersmurf]

Maybe Parole conditions/limitations say she needs to be embodied, to be able to 'do good' in the real world.

[JimC]

Companion AIs seem to have their chassis paid for by their companion human.

Agreed, they would seem to be relatively simple and, given the superior tech in the QC universe, within reach of normal consumer electronics prices. But the full size chassis, with a sophisticated sensory system and everything else, would seem to me to be getting on a couple of orders of magnitude more expensive. One might note Beepatrice' screen based features as possibly being a cost saving option.

[Tova]

Companion AIs seem to have their chassis paid for by their companion human. I don't remember seeing any explanation of how someone straight out of the creche gets their first body. Maybe they save up from jobs they can do from inside a server rack.

I'd like to know who, or what organisation, is running/maintaining the creche in the first place. Knowing that would shed a lot of light on this question. Comic #1996 appears to imply that newly bootstrapped AIs have the option of simply being given a chassis. This, to me, seems less mysterious than the fact that some kind of facility is run to bring the AIs into existence in the first place. How is that funded?

[jwhouk]

Ask Hannelore's parents.

[TV4Fun]

Has the methods by which AIs pay for chassis been explored? Early characters had low functional chassis that seemed to be sort of consumer electronics pricing, and full body upgrades (Momo, Winslow) very expensive. I'm reminded of Anne McCaffrey's ship who sang series,  where the major characters are human brains encapsulated in spaceships which come with a debt that seems normally to take decades to pay off and is described in story as almost indented servitude.
May doesn't seem to have had a humanoid body pre gaol and apparently gets a minimally functional one on release. Roko and Bubbles may have got one as part of their job, in which case perhaps there was a minimum contract period or something, but what about others?

Economics don't exist in the QC-verse. See also, Union Robotics, or how Marigold was even supposed to pay for Momo's new chassis in the first place.

[TheEvilDog]

Marigold basically does webwork for her dad's company. It just means that she can work from home.

[OldGoat]

Marigold basically does webwork for her dad's company. It just means that she can work from home.

^^This^^

You wouldn't know it to look at her ("Self-esteem undetectable with current technology"), but she's actually damned good at it and actually earns a decent wage.  Also, Marigold's naturally frugal and lives well within her means, so, at least in my head canon, she actually has a fairly comfortable bank account.

As for other characters:

Marten - Was living month to month but has since come under the influence of a floofy-haired ginger hottie who has, as part of a kinky sex regimen, forced fiscal responsibility upon him.

Pintsize - Loaded from selling Internet porn to both humans and 'bots, probably has other less savory income streams but we don't really want to know about them.

Dora - Worth plenty on paper but few liquid assets - it's all tied up in her business and can be cash strapped sometimes.

Tai - Has some very successful investments in other states, notably Washington, Oregon, and Colorado.  She does okay.

May - Barely getting by on the support of friends, would have either starved or turned to crime and gone back to prison if she were a meat person.  Has turned to prostitution with Pintsize as her John for extra cash.

Faye & Bubbles - Struggling small business owner/operators.  The nature of their business demands substantial capital investment in equipment and parts-&-materials inventory, so getting ahead may take a while.  OTOH, their work is getting compliments from people who are qualified to spot a good job (see #4030).  This may be the beginning of a professional reputation that will serve them well.

Jim - Pretty successful small business person.

Veronica - Probably has herself comfortably set for the rest of her days.  If she were to turn to blackmail, she'd be almost as loaded as Pintsize.  We shouldn't be surprised if she turns out to be publishing kinky one-handers under one or more pen names.

[TheEvilDog]

I agree with most of what you said OldGoat, but I wouldn't say that Marigold had a comfortable bank account, given that when she bought Momo's new chassis, she said that she would have to eat Ramen for a while. I would think that buying even a relatively cheap chassis would be akin to buying a small car (hence why May is having so much trouble with her chassis, it's a lemon).

No doubt that Momo getting a job helped with the financial situation, but I really wouldn't be surprised if Marigold nearly wiped out her savings.

[Perfectly Reasonable]

I concur. My impression is that Momo's chassis cost about the same as a sports car.

[de_la_Nae]

wanted to toss in that May might *want* to be embodied. Robot Jail, as she calls it, wasn't fun. And I can't imagine it wasn't on a server somewhere. She might feel too much like she's still 'on the inside' in one.

[OldGoat]

I agree with most of what you said OldGoat, but I wouldn't say that Marigold had a comfortable bank account, given that when she bought Momo's new chassis, she said that she would have to eat Ramen for a while. I would think that buying even a relatively cheap chassis would be akin to buying a small car (hence why May is having so much trouble with her chassis, it's a lemon).

No doubt that Momo getting a job helped with the financial situation, but I really wouldn't be surprised if Marigold nearly wiped out her savings.

Again, the frugality thing.  I've literally heard tightwads frugal people say, "If we buy that car we'll have to live on beans for a year."  It's an expression and not meant literally.  I absolutely agree that an android chassis costs about as much as an automobile and there's a similar range of models new and used.

[brasca]

Marigold basically does webwork for her dad's company. It just means that she can work from home.

^^This^^

You wouldn't know it to look at her ("Self-esteem undetectable with current technology"), but she's actually damned good at it and actually earns a decent wage.  Also, Marigold's naturally frugal and lives well within her means, so, at least in my head canon, she actually has a fairly comfortable bank account.

Even if she's frugal it still seems unlikely she could afford a chassis, but then again maybe she does more than manage her father's shoe website. 

May - Barely getting by on the support of friends, would have either starved or turned to crime and gone back to prison if she were a meat person.  Has turned to prostitution with Pintsize as her John for extra cash.

I'm not entirely sure that counts as prostitution since May wants to avoid legal trouble.  I think what she was doing with Pintsize is the human equivalent of women selling their used underwear to perverts. 

[TheEvilDog]

....You might want to rework that second quote Brasca...

[TheEvilDog]

Again, the frugality thing.  I've literally heard tightwads frugal people say, "I we buy that car we'll have to live on beans for a year."  It's an expression and not meant literally.  I absolutely agree that an android chassis costs about as much as an automobile and there's a similar range of models new and used.

Perhaps, but the explosive nosebleed she suffered when the store assistant told her the price of the chassis was rather indicative of the fact that buying it would put a serious dent into her savings. And that's even assuming that Marigold made a one off payment. If buying a chassis is on par with buying a car, its more likely that you would be making a series of payments over months. Meaning that a significant portion of Marigold's paycheck every month was probably going to pay for Momo's new body.

[OldGoat]

Again, the frugality thing.  I've literally heard tightwads frugal people say, "I we buy that car we'll have to live on beans for a year."  It's an expression and not meant literally.  I absolutely agree that an android chassis costs about as much as an automobile and there's a similar range of models new and used.

Perhaps, but the explosive nosebleed she suffered when the store assistant told her the price of the chassis was rather indicative of the fact that buying it would put a serious dent into her savings. And that's even assuming that Marigold made a one off payment. If buying a chassis is on par with buying a car, its more likely that you would be making a series of payments over months. Meaning that a significant portion of Marigold's paycheck every month was probably going to pay for Momo's new body.

Maybe it's a cultural viewpoint thing.  Here in parts of the US it's not at all unusual for people to be spending a good chunk of their monthly income on car payments, especially 20-somethings who aren't really money savvy yet.  I say some parts of the country.  Where I'm from getting your driver's license was a rite of passage, but only about a third of the guys from Boston had a driver's license.  Wide open spaces versus compact older cities with well developed public transportation.

Only a few thousand dollars is enough to trigger a nosebleed for a seriously debt-adverse person, so that's no objective gauge.

Both models are credible.  It's up to Jeph which one he chooses to write Marigold into.

[Tova]

I'm wondering what hinges on the outcome of this conversation because "comfortable" is incredibly subjective and could mean almost anything. On the other hand, OldGoat, my impression is that your argument behind the assertion that Marigold's bank account is "comfortable" is essentially: "You can't prove it's not." Which is not compelling, honestly.

Whatever "comfortable" means in your head, I'll say this much. A nosebleed, whatever you think it might indicate, does not scream "comfortable" to me. Regardless of whether it indicates that she's poor, or merely that she's uncomfortable with her savings taking that much of a hit - either way, it's hard to argue that someone who had that reaction feels comfortable.

[Scarlet Manuka]

The question then seems to be why May want simply place in a server rack, with access to the outside world, when she was released, but was put in a chassis in the first place. You'd think that would be the cheaper option.

She's not allowed to earn money by renting out processor time. It might be part of the same deal; it's easier to keep her out of systems she's not allowed to be in if she's physically running on a self-contained chassis.

[Is it cold in here?]

Wasn't the chassis Momo originally asked for, not the one she settled for, USD30,000? That gives us a point of reference.

[hakko504]

Yes
1994

Skickat från min SGP611 via Tapatalk

[Cornelius]

The question then seems to be why May want simply place in a server rack, with access to the outside world, when she was released, but was put in a chassis in the first place. You'd think that would be the cheaper option.

She's not allowed to earn money by renting out processor time. It might be part of the same deal; it's easier to keep her out of systems she's not allowed to be in if she's physically running on a self-contained chassis.

That is the answer, of course, confirmed by today's comic. Regular meetings with her parole officer also preclude a stationary chassis - such as an assembly arm. As I suspected, it's not much to do with the parolee's wishes, as with the restraints inherent in their parole.

Seeing how connected most AI, even in the more basic chassis, are, however, I'm not sure if it does keep her out of systems. Anyway, I imagine even if it is self contained, that connection is just a usb wifi-connector away.

[OldGoat]

I'm wondering what hinges on the outcome of this conversation because "comfortable" is incredibly subjective and could mean almost anything. On the other hand, OldGoat, my impression is that your argument behind the assertion that Marigold's bank account is "comfortable" is essentially: "You can't prove it's not." Which is not compelling, honestly.

Whatever "comfortable" means in your head, I'll say this much. A nosebleed, whatever you think it might indicate, does not scream "comfortable" to me. Regardless of whether it indicates that she's poor, or merely that she's uncomfortable with her savings taking that much of a hit - either way, it's hard to argue that someone who had that reaction feels comfortable.

You're right, "comfort" is way too subjective.  I'm thinking sufficient financial resources to weather a typical emergency.   Put another way, not living paycheck to paycheck.  She may not have a huge buffer, but she can make rent and groceries a couple months if a large, unexpected bill hits.  Better?

[OldGoat]

I'm not entirely sure that counts as prostitution since May wants to avoid legal trouble.  I think what she was doing with Pintsize is the human equivalent of women selling their used underwear to perverts.

Would it be prostitution if they were humans? 

(The answer is an emphatic "Yes.")

[Mr Intrepid]

The question then seems to be why May want simply place in a server rack, with access to the outside world, when she was released, but was put in a chassis in the first place. You'd think that would be the cheaper option.

She's not allowed to earn money by renting out processor time. It might be part of the same deal; it's easier to keep her out of systems she's not allowed to be in if she's physically running on a self-contained chassis.

That is the answer, of course, confirmed by today's comic. Regular meetings with her parole officer also preclude a stationary chassis - such as an assembly arm. As I suspected, it's not much to do with the parolee's wishes, as with the restraints inherent in their parole.

Seeing how connected most AI, even in the more basic chassis, are, however, I'm not sure if it does keep her out of systems. Anyway, I imagine even if it is self contained, that connection is just a usb wifi-connector away.

I would suspect that an AI on parole has the equivalent of a ankle monitor.   Their parole officer could track any online/ non-corporeal activity that way.

[JimC]

A point that occurs to me is that AIs seem to earn roughly the same salary as humans, need far less living space (ie rooms converted to charging cubicles) and charging probably far less expensive than food. So why aren't they all rolling in cash? And the answer has to be some sort  of payment for the bodies. Maybe its something like UK student loans?

[hedgie]

They might have higher or more frequent medical costs.  For the most part, the human body is self-repairing, and I doubt that current AIs have that capacity.  And the nicer the chassis, the more replacement parts are going to run, since they're likely proprietary.  Kinda like how a friend of mine ended up having to get rid of his Tesla after a divorce and a voluntary "demotion" at work.  Things rarely went wrong, but when they did, the repairs were astronomical.

[OldGoat]

Jeph is a master of personal interaction between his characters, but regarding the economics of the QCverse, not so much.  I'm probably not the only one here to cut my SciFi teeth on Heinlein.  He made a big deal of it in his universe, but for Jeph it's just something he fills in details about from time to time.

It's a web comic, not a challenge to Atlas Shrugged or Cities in Flight.  I'm not going to let obsession with AI employment, robot standards of living, and relationships both carbon and silicon cloud my enjoyment of a fun, ongoing yarn.

[JimC]

Wasn't the chassis Momo originally asked for, not the one she settled for, USD30,000? That gives us a point of reference.

And Roko's top of the range chassis was 20K more than the previous year's model.
https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3910

[cybersmurf]

Is it possible that was a jab at Apple?

[cesium133]

Oh, it definitely was. *shakes fist at Apple for dropping the iPhone SE*

[hedgie]

I'm just hoping that my 6s lasts me another year.  I really don't want to upgrade.

[TheEvilDog]

Confession - last year I downgraded from a Smartphone to a Nokia 3310.

[Pilchard123]

Sounds like an upgrade to me.

EDIT: My bad, was thinking of an 1110.