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"You. Did. All. This. For ME?"

4 (10%)

@!#&%^&*%^%^*(^%*(&^(*&!!!!

13 (32.5%)

"Seriously, you mean it?"

0 (0%)

"Oh, yeah, right, sure, and I'm going to grow wings and fly away."

15 (37.5%)

"Do I get a cut of this?"

3 (7.5%)

"Purple Monkey Dishwashers!"

2 (5%)

Something else (specify)

3 (7.5%)

Total Members Voted: 40

Voting closed: 26 Jul 2020, 08:59

[jwhouk]

Here you go - with a poll even!

[Gyrre]

I'm going with her response being a combination of the poll options.
 biting sarcasm, growlix once it sinks in, "You did this for me?!", then 'can I get a cut'.

[BenRG]

Basically, May would:

• Cynically deny that a majority of people could get together with the intent of creating something good without it ending up ineffective or corrupt and
• Get angry that Roko's 'solution' was to make her a 'charity case'. Then, finally...
• She'd ask, like the lost little girl she is, whether anyone would ever care enough to help her and be genuinely surprised to learn just how many people Hannelore has already convinced to chip in to help her as an individual. Because she does have friends who value her.

That's how I would like this arc to end, by the way: For May to finally be taught to believe that, her past sins aside, she can be loved.

[hedgie]

I had to vote for wings, because, you know, fighter jet.

[Mr Intrepid]

Once May gets it through alloy head that this isn't about her, but about any AIs who have suffered misfortunes,  she'll be genuinely touched that this might be a a thing because others believe and care for her.  She has that capacjty.

[Cornelius]

I thought in a previous step, May said she preferred a global solution, rather than just her case being solved, but perhaps I remember incorrectly.

[the silent firefly]

a combination of: "yeah, like that is going to happen" and "great, so then i can be stuck with this shitty body forever and wait 6 months at a time for bureaucrats to decide when i can get a ounce of new lubricant"

a comprehensive AI socialized "medicine" system could be a dream come true or a nightmare.

[alc40]

I thought in a previous step, May said she preferred a global solution, rather than just her case being solved, but perhaps I remember incorrectly.

Maybe #4190.  The idea was also discussed in #4200 but not by May.

[Mr_Rose]

a combination of: "yeah, like that is going to happen" and "great, so then i can be stuck with this shitty body forever and wait 6 months at a time for bureaucrats to decide when i can get a ounce of new lubricant"

a comprehensive AI socialized "medicine" system could be a dream come true or a nightmare.

What social care system anywhere has bureaucrats involved in treatment decisions? Because it sounds a lot like the made up one that was used as a strawman by the naysayers when the affordable care act was being discussed.

Also, I’m not certain “waiting for someone to say I can have something” is actually worse than “never getting anything unless someone gives it to me” – in fact they’re semantically identical; just the implied reason for the third party to fund treatment is different.

[Tova]

She'll probably be angry that Roko got distracted from helping her by the promise of what she will see as an utterly unattainable goal.

[Farideh]

Roko is handling this pretty well. It's good that she keeps May in the loop.

[Theta9]

Sven is not a mooch.

[Tova]

COMIC:-2

Winslow selects option #2

[N.N. Marf]

"wait 6 months at a time for bureaucrats to decide when i can get a ounce of new lubricant"

What social care system anywhere has bureaucrats involved in treatment decisions?

It's probably a system that involves a government and an insurance company. Both types presently are heavily bureaucratic. There's going to be rules that are set by the bureaucrats, and there's probably going to be resident bureaucrats in hospitals who make sure those rules are followed. Most doctors will know most common rules, but there's inevitably going to be a bureaucrat looking over an edge case, scratching his asshead over what to approve. But that's not a personal decision. It's about adhering to the the code. The bureaucracy, made of bureaucrats, decides. Hopefully it's a well functioning bureaucracy.

[shanejayell]

Roko pretty much mirrors my reaction. It's a good thing, BUT.... gonna be a bitch to get going, and doesn't help May in the short run.

[Mr_Rose]

"wait 6 months at a time for bureaucrats to decide when i can get a ounce of new lubricant"

What social care system anywhere has bureaucrats involved in treatment decisions?

It's probably a system that involves a government and an insurance company. Both types presently are heavily bureaucratic. There's going to be rules that are set by the bureaucrats, and there's probably going to be resident bureaucrats in hospitals who make sure those rules are followed. Most doctors will know most common rules, but there's inevitably going to be a bureaucrat looking over an edge case, scratching his asshead over what to approve. But that's not a personal decision. It's about adhering to the the code. The bureaucracy, made of bureaucrats, decides. Hopefully it's a well functioning bureaucracy.

That sounds more like the system the USA has, which was anything but socialised last I checked.

[the silent firefly]

What social care system anywhere has bureaucrats involved in treatment decisions? Because it sounds a lot like the made up one that was used as a strawman by the naysayers when the affordable care act was being discussed.

i have no idea. the implication is not that it's a necessary feature of the system, merely that we're talking about the US and therefore a bloated bureaucracy is pretty much a given.

Also, I’m not certain “waiting for someone to say I can have something” is actually worse than “never getting anything unless someone gives it to me” – in fact they’re semantically identical; just the implied reason for the third party to fund treatment is different.

they are not the same at all when, in the former case, your tax dollars are going to a service which you may or may not ever actually receive. i would describe that as self-evidently much worse.



on-topic, i can't wait to hear May's obscenity-laced tirade. i think she will enjoy having an audience too.

[Tova]

they are not the same at all when, in the former case, your tax dollars are going to a service which you may or may not ever actually receive. i would describe that as self-evidently much worse.

Your tax dollars are going to a service which you may or may not (directly) receive either way.

The implication of socialised anything is that it society as a whole is better off, meaning that you benefit from the thing tax dollars paid for whether or not you are a direct recipient of the service.

[hedgie]

Not to mention, that we all have to pay for things that we don't need/agree on.  My entire working life, I've been paying for a bloated military budget and wars of aggression.

[BenRG]

Beeps... I appreciate your curiosity but I strongly suspect that May's contribution to your lexicon will be a long string of censored inputs!

What social care system anywhere has bureaucrats involved in treatment decisions?

None of them but, nonetheless, they still have a strong influence on whether a treatment is available and who gets it on a reasonable time-scale. Remember: socialised healthcare systems are funded by public money. Public money means government control of the funding, including ensuring funding is used cost-effectively and that means that the civil service will be involved in assessing what treatments are going to be available and the amount of money allocated to providing that treatment every financial period.

Whilst they won't be saying "You get it but you don't" to individuals, because that is solely the medical authorities' responsibility, they will be saying: "You will only get enough money perform a certain number of these procedures per year which means those at the back of the queue will have to wait a long time."

[Cornelius]

Or, as we have here, some times, treatment XYZ for condition ABC, that affects only one in ten million, is unproven, and so you'll need to pay it entirely by yourself, if you decide to go where they offer it. (Spoiler: more often than not, these campaigns, that do get the funding together, follow up some months later, to say that treatment was not, after all, effective, and in some cases, did more harm than good.)

[jwhouk]

Sven is not a mooch.

I knew I forgot something.

[Zebediah]

Let me tell you a little bit about bureaucrats in the US health care system.

The morning of my son’s heart surgery, while he was being prepped for surgery, we got a call from our insurance company stating that they would not be paying for it, despite having previously approved it. Their stated reasons were that 1. this didn’t require inpatient surgery, but could be handled by an outpatient facility, and 2. my son was too old to be treated at the children’s hospital anyway.

He was 3, and was getting heart surgery, which requires a minimum of 24 hours in an ICU and 72 hours observation after surgery. Insurance wanted it done in an outpatient facility for adults with no post-op hospitalization.

One profanity-laced phone call from the surgeon to the insurance company cleared it up, but he had to take a break from preparing for the surgery to deal with it. He told us afterwards that insurance companies tried to pull this shit all the time, just to see if they could get away with it.

And this is why I want for-profit insurance companies out of the decision-making loop.

(My son is fine now, by the way. Surgery was 100% successful and he has very few restrictions on physical activity. Basically he’s not allowed to play football, which he doesn’t want to do anyway.)

[Gyrre]

a combination of: "yeah, like that is going to happen" and "great, so then i can be stuck with this shitty body forever and wait 6 months at a time for bureaucrats to decide when i can get a ounce of new lubricant"

a comprehensive AI socialized "medicine" system could be a dream come true or a nightmare.

What social care system anywhere has bureaucrats involved in treatment decisions? Because it sounds a lot like the made up one that was used as a strawman by the naysayers when the affordable care act was being discussed.

Also, I’m not certain “waiting for someone to say I can have something” is actually worse than “never getting anything unless someone gives it to me” – in fact they’re semantically identical; just the implied reason for the third party to fund treatment is different.

Much like education, bureaucrats should be kept far far away from any decision making in how it runs. They should only be allowed to pass the budget. And said budget should be unfettered and free of dogears and riders. [And in my own personal opinion, any politicians attempting to affix such things to said budget bills should automatically lose their seat of office.]

[Tova]

Let me tell you a little bit about bureaucrats in the US health care system.

The morning of my son’s heart surgery, while he was being prepped for surgery, we got a call from our insurance company stating that they would not be paying for it, despite having previously approved it. Their stated reasons were that 1. this didn’t require inpatient surgery, but could be handled by an outpatient facility, and 2. my son was too old to be treated at the children’s hospital anyway.

He was 3, and was getting heart surgery, which requires a minimum of 24 hours in an ICU and 72 hours observation after surgery. Insurance wanted it done in an outpatient facility for adults with no post-op hospitalization.

One profanity-laced phone call from the surgeon to the insurance company cleared it up, but he had to take a break from preparing for the surgery to deal with it. He told us afterwards that insurance companies tried to pull this shit all the time, just to see if they could get away with it.

And this is why I want for-profit insurance companies out of the decision-making loop.

(My son is fine now, by the way. Surgery was 100% successful and he has very few restrictions on physical activity. Basically he’s not allowed to play football, which he doesn’t want to do anyway.)

Let me just say that I am very glad that your son is fine. And that my mental reaction to the story leading up to that bit was also quite profanity-laced. There's probably no point in saying any more than that.

[Gyrre]

But wil May's  profanity take on Sydney Scoville Jr levels of creativity?

[Thrudd]

Much like education, bureaucrats should be kept far far away from any decision making in how it runs. They should only be allowed to pass the budget. And said budget should be unfettered and free of dogears and riders. [And in my own personal opinion, any politicians attempting to affix such things to said budget bills should automatically lose their seat of office.]

I suggest that they just loose their seat.
It is hard to be a butt when you no longer have one 

[Baz_Yat]

I think first, she's going to swear a lot.
Then she's going to cuss that it's going to take longer.
Then she's going to, in her own obtuse way, say 'thank you for not making me a charity case'
Then she's going to realise she has friends who want to - and can - help her.

[jwhouk]

COMIC!

Okay, maybe I already knew what she was going to say. But for it to cause her vocal box to short out?

[Farideh]

Oh no! If May can't cuss, then who is she anymore?

[Farideh]

It might also get her fired. Not being able to talk properly stops her from interacting with customers (although that might be an improvement, given her potty mouth). Well, off to Union Robotics they go. Hopefully Bubbles can fix May.

[Gnabberwocky]

...Worrying how accurate pretty much all of those poll options were.

[Tyr]

It might also get her fired. Not being able to talk properly stops her from interacting with customers (although that might be an improvement, given her potty mouth). Well, off to Union Robotics they go. Hopefully Bubbles can fix May.

Quite a lot of May's issues wouldn't fly if she was an organic. She lost a goddamned arm, and now she's suffering from some unholy combination of tourrettes and selective mutism. I assume her boss isn't so skeevy as to have failed to withhold her taxes, so she should qualify at the very least for some form of temporary disability, and whatever 'living wage' would be paid out for an organic could be applied directly to effecting actual repairs since, psychological blocks and foibles aside, AIs are remarkably easier to heal than organics.

[Farideh]

It has also been shown that the system is prejudiced against ex-cons, and I doubt that May would be eligible for any compensation. Heck, if that was the case, then she should be able to get a new body without too much fuss. After all, an upgrade is cheaper in the long run than continuous repairs to keep a crappy chassis going.

Probably her boss gets some sort of compensation for being part of a 'reintegrate ex-con AIs back into society' scheme. So May probably won't get fired, but she might get her pay docked because of her issues.

[Tova]

So, Murphy's Law would stipulate that the urgency of her chassis situation would escalate at the very moment that they have this conversation.

Maybe this new development will strengthen her case?

[shanejayell]

There's also the question if May can afford the voicebox fix.

Hopefully it's minor.

(Does the QC universe have 'go fund me' or similar? Could fundraise for a body fix.)

[Farideh]

Fundraising has been suggested before. However, May is dead set against charity.

#MayIsNotAMooch

[Tova]

That would also provide ammunition to the official argument that they really have no obligation to do anything.

[Gyrre]

Oh no! If May can't cuss, then who is she anymore?

I wonder if her new voicebox will come with a Nick Zerhacker/Zodon style profanity filter?

Much like education, bureaucrats should be kept far far away from any decision making in how it runs. They should only be allowed to pass the budget. And said budget should be unfettered and free of dogears and riders. [And in my own personal opinion, any politicians attempting to affix such things to said budget bills should automatically lose their seat of office.]

I suggest that they just loose their seat.
It is hard to be a butt when you no longer have one 

You know what, let's throw in corruption charges while we're at it.

[Farideh]

May would like a profanity filter about as much as Roko liked the Oopsieguard ™

[Gnabberwocky]

"I @#$% TRIED TO @#$% SWEAR AND MY @#$% BODY WOULDN'T @#$% LET ME"

[BenRG]

Ouch! There goes her voder! Poor May! I'm wondering if this is the edge of the cliff and the component failure cascade is just going to keep getting faster and worse until it isn't possible to keep her body in a functional condition.

May would like a profanity filter about as much as Roko liked the Oopsieguard ™

Or she gets a replacement that isn't fully compatible with the chassis and she can't alter its settings so that she's stuck on RMLI-Goldie Horn/Miz Mary Sunshine! Having your voice suddenly changed would be pretty disturbing!

[N.N. Marf]

Your tax dollars are going to a service which you may or may not (directly) receive either way.

Exactly. It's unfair to put "directly" in parentheses, because someone's going to interpret that as, if it's not a direct benefit, then it's an indirect benefit, which is not true. If I don't get any benefit from participating, don't make me participate. I think hedgie knows what I'm talking about:

My entire working life, I've been paying for a bloated military budget and wars of aggression.

Let me emphasize: if someone gets a benefit from my participating, then they should be ready to compensate me for my participation. If they're destitute, then it's a matter of insurance---I might become destitute someday, so can everyone. One way to resolve problems where "force everyone to participate" is a solution, is draft a pledge of participation effective when enough persons so pledge. Some american anarchists moving to New Hampshire that way. When enough persons pledge to participate, each will fulfill his pledge or risk reputation reduction.

(click to show/hide)

I've been forced to receive "benefits" I'd rather avoid.

[Tova]

Your tax dollars are going to a service which you may or may not (directly) receive either way.

Exactly. It's unfair to put "directly" in parentheses, because someone's going to interpret that as, if it's not a direct benefit, then it's an indirect benefit, which is not true. If I don't get any benefit from participating, don't make me participate.

You've misunderstood me in two respects.

Firstly, you've completely ignored the "or may not" part of the sentence.

Secondly, I'm not putting it in a way that is subject to interpretation. I'm explicitly stating it. The way you say "someone's going to interpret it" is precisely how I intended my post to be interpreted.

Whether or not any specific spending truly is a societal benefit, on the other hand, is absolutely up for debate. And obviously there is some spending that liberals think society benefits from that conservatives don't. And vice versa.

BUT if you're saying that you only care whether you personally benefit directly, and don't care to participate whether society benefits or not, them I'm afraid we must part ways.

[Gyrre]

An example of people actually benefitting would the portion of our taxes that go to fund public schools. Even if we don't have kids, we might have a doctor one day  that went to our local schools.

EDIT: avoiding double posting.

"I @#$% TRIED TO @#$% SWEAR AND MY @#$% BODY WOULDN'T @#$% LET ME"

I was thinking more along the lines of; "What the parsnip?!?! Alright, I wanna talk to the  sea-sawwing rabbit-puncher that designed this!!!

[I would have changed the font, but the 'font face' coding doesn't appear to change anything in the preview.

[ihaveavoice]

Okay, having your VOICE suddenly give out on you like that and not even allow you to form complete words, just completely out of the blue, is legitimately horrifying to me. Like sci-fi body horror type stuff. Just imagine being slammed out of the blue with a form of aphasia that severe. It's not just like losing your voice. This is fucked. UP. Poor May!

[JimC]

Exactly. It's unfair to put "directly" in parentheses, because someone's going to interpret that as, if it's not a direct benefit, then it's an indirect benefit, which is not true. If I don't get any benefit from participating, don't make me participate.

Do you refuse to buy insurance as well? Because universal access medicine paid for out of taxes is working just like insurance.

[Theta9]

"...some rich asshole to give me money...."

Paging Sven... Sven Bianchi to the front, please.

[cesium133]

Skrzzt flarzit marm? Cump.

[Baz_Yat]

Exactly. It's unfair to put "directly" in parentheses, because someone's going to interpret that as, if it's not a direct benefit, then it's an indirect benefit, which is not true. If I don't get any benefit from participating, don't make me participate.

Do you refuse to buy insurance as well? Because universal access medicine paid for out of taxes is working just like insurance.

It's often cheaper than insurance too. Because you're not paying for all the people whose job is to second-guess the doctor, and the doctor doesn't have to pad things out to make sure he's paid properly.