Fun Stuff > CLIKC
QUAKE IV
Switchblade:
Can we maybe compromise on "Similar"? Granted there will be similar aspects - I don't think we can really expect much from an iD/Raven colalboration other than running and gunning, but it IS going to be different. Here's the deal:
1: the plot and structure are different. you aren't just some lone badass marine versus all of hell, or Stroggos, or whatever, you're PART of the war macjhine - one grunt among millions, supported by a colossal starship/mobile HQ. The Game storyline pivots around the idea that you're just another tooth on another cog in one small part of the war machine. I mean, OKAy, you'r an important tooth that inevitably brings about victory for the human race (presumably) but the fact is that, from the storyline eprspective at least, you're just one gear tooth. As opposed to the whole tank.
2: less winding, claustrophobic, dark corridors with random demons about the place, more open skies, tanks, trans-orbital fighter-bomber scramjets, biomechanical gladiators and nail guns. Plus vehicular combat and you being a member of a squad.
3: QUAKE!!! not DOOM!!!
seriously, regardless of how much we can glean from a screenshot, the most anybody is ever going to surmise from a Quake IV screenshot is that it looks so much like Doom 3 that it's effectively going to be the same game. We can't know what its really going to be like up until the point of actually playing it. So enough with this "it's going to be exactly the same" bullshit, please? I'll grant you, it will be very similar, but we're not looking at a clone here.
harvest17:
The look of a game is inextricably linked to its style. Maybe the vehicle combat, squad actions and open skies will provide a different gameplay feel to Doom 3. But...
Have you seen the trailer for Quake 4? It Looks fundamentally the same as Doom 3. Same rusty corridors. Same exposed piping. Same "lurking monster attacks hapless extra" device. So it's got some AT-STs and other military hardware, and you have buddies. Big whoop. They're nothing I couldn't have expected to see in Doom 3 (in fact, the absence of a co-op mode in that game was fucking criminal). Oh wait! We have disturbing live surgery scenes as well! That's nothing like anything in Doom!
I'm sarking Id there, Switchblade, not you :). I think my point is: Quake 4's a new game; couldn't they have made it look like a new game?
To bash the maths once again, Id + Dark Industrial = God I'm bored.
I'm sure you'll love the game. I'm just not buying that Quake 4 and Doom 3 are completely different games. Id are just bloody lazy, and I've lost respect for them because of it.
Switchblade:
--- Quote from: harvest17 ---I'm sure you'll love the game. I'm just not buying that Quake 4 and Doom 3 are completely different games. Id are just bloody lazy, and I've lost respect for them because of it.
--- End quote ---
Im not suggesting that they're completely different. What I'm trying to do is get people out of the loop of thinking that the similarity is going to detract from the quality of the game.
oh, and "Lazy"?
Dude, just give me a rough estimate at how long it takes to develop a modern game engine, from the ground up, to a high enough quality to compete properly, hmm?
here, I'll save you the time: YEARS.
who knows, maybe they'll put together a completely new engine for Quake V but iD have just spent a long time putting together the DOOM 3 engine, I rather imagine they'd like the chance to play around with it or a bit, first. I know I would.
harvest17:
I agree that making a game similar to the one you did the year before doesn't, on paper, necessarily make it a bad game. It will be up to each ex-Doom3-er to overcome any lingering mental fatigue they have experienced. If someone hasn't played Doom 3 at all, I sure that, for them, Quake 4 will be the best thing since sliced bread.
I stand by my "bloody lazy" comment, although I meant it differently to how you saw it. I don't doubt that the Doom 3 engine took years of hard work to come up with. Id's problem is, once they have their extremely powerful and shiny engine, they think that's all they have to do. All credit to them for launching the next generation of very high quality 3D engines, but a cool engine alone does not a successful, or even satisfying, game make.
When I say Id is bloody lazy, it is because they had a huge chance to reinvent the FPS genre (hell, they basically invented it in the first place). They they missed it, and missed it badly, because they couldn't be arsed. They slapped together a few hackneyed plot points and game devices and that was it.
I could rant about missed opportunities all day, but I'd rather use my breath playing a decent Id game, like Doom 1 (if I could get it for a Mac, that is :(). If your company goes to all the trouble of writing a new engine, at least try to come up with some fresh gameplay, some new ideas. Not doing so is simple laziness and, ultimately, hubris.
Druid:
--- Quote from: Switchblade ---"Oh, this game uses the engine from a game I didn't like, therefore I won't like this game".
what kind of a stupid-ass line of reasoning is that?
--- End quote ---
It's the indie line of reasoning. "Derivative is derivative and it's going to suck."
People expect too much out of FPSs I suspect. I play games for mindless fun instead of as an escape from a boring life.
I don't think ID is being lazy; they are just updating their back catalog. Doom and Quake reached cultural franchise status a long time ago, and they are doing fan service by updating them and releasing them to run on newer hardware. They can't add new features or innovate without morphing the two games into something totally different from the predecessors.
Are the new Quake and Doom going to be genre redefining games? No, they are locked into the molds of the franchise. Could ID release something new and innovative using their franchises? Yes, but it would have to be in a totally different genre, a la a Quake RTS. Could ID release something new and innovative using the D3 engine? Yes, but it's not going to be in the Quake or Doom line.
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