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[nickyandthefuture]

Well, first, here's the link: http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/features/weekly/indie-pop/

I thought it was a pretty interesting history.  He hit most of the significant points, and more importantly, I think he really understood a lot of what the culture was about.  It was, at least, much better than the dismissive, above-it-all stance one tends to see in Pitchfork.  Description of it as, "a scene where the pinnacle of style was to be a nice, normal person who made some tiny, lovely thing on your own," captures quite a lot of the feeling that I found so attractive about it when I was younger.  I don't quite agree with how it is characterized as a reaction to punk, though.  I mean, there certainly was a contrast that the pop kids were quite aware of, but I think Sarah bands would have sounded pretty much the same even if punk was cheerier.

It leaves out a lot of stuff, as well.  There's no mention of Kindercore and the Athens branch of American pop, and there's only a passing mention of the Elephant 6 bands, but I guess a stronger focus on Sarah and K Records might have been better for clarity anyway.

There's also not much mention of the current state of affairs, other than to say that it's harder to distinguish from mainstream indie.  I suppose that there's some truth to that, but there is a lot of life still in pure pop, Colin Clary's bands and the bands on Shelflife, for example.

Also, I get to take some pleasure in seeing a Pitchfork article referring to a Wolfie album as, "one of-- if you ask me-- the best records of the nineties," since in the nineties they put up http://pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/w/wolfie/wheres-wolfie.shtml">a review of a Wolfie album wherein they make fun of teenaged me for giving them a good review.

Anyway, what are your thoughts?

[KharBevNor]

I read as much as I could and remain interested, the whole of page one and a skim through the rest. I still don't get why it appeals to people at all. Indeed, certain passages that on reflection must be praise read to me as blatant attacks on the whole idea. I did make a serious effort to go through without my mental summary being "bland, boring, passionless childish music for bland, boring, passionless childish people", but that phrase all but cropped up in the article.

One thing I did note is that I love Syd Barret and appreciate what Kinks i've heard, and I can't see a similiarity, though I might have misunderstood that part of it.

[Dara]

there are always so many charged feelings on the internet when people talk about pitchfork.. <_<

anyway yeah, it was a good summary.

[Garcin]

One thing I did note is that I love Syd Barret and appreciate what Kinks i've heard, and I can't see a similiarity, though I might have misunderstood that part of it.

I found the article pretty . . . incoherent.  A pretty useful list of indie-pop inspirations with an ass-load of words in between, that somehow managed not to draw links from the inspirations to modern acts like Deerhoof, AiH, the Sugarplastics.  So . . . what was the point?

And The Decemberists as professional bed-wetters?  My first reaction: huh?  My second reaction: fuck, I went into the wrong line of business.  Seriously, someone want to break this down for me -- because my mind, it's boggled.

EDIT: Conversion to English from fldskjgoiuhwtohish.

[Kid Modernist]

I found the article pretty . . . incoherent.  I pretty useful list of indie-pop inspirations with an ass-load of words in between.

Pitchfork summed up, but I do use it anyways.

[rive gauche]

Also, I get to take some pleasure in seeing a Pitchfork article referring to a Wolfie album as, "one of-- if you ask me-- the best records of the nineties," since in the nineties they put up http://pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/w/wolfie/wheres-wolfie.shtml">a review of a Wolfie album wherein they make fun of teenaged me for giving them a good review.

are you Big Orange Crayon or Signal Drench?

[ASturge]

I didn't like it.

roooargh

[nickyandthefuture]

are you Big Orange Crayon or Signal Drench?

My avatar holds the key to the mystery!


There's been a lot of discussion about it on the indiepop list.  There are some factual errors in it that I didn't notice (like saying that Steven Pastel started Creation records).  I guess I looked for the best in the tone of it - I read it as someone who was genuinely interested in pop, but a lot of people were saying that it was more detached and bemused.  I guess I can see both, but there are some parts where he seems to express a sincere affinity for the music.

I still kinda like it, and if it gets someone to pick up a Heavenly record or something, I think it's a good thing.  It's just one perspective and doesn't tell a complete story, but by Internet standards, it's pretty decent, I think.

[ASturge]

Hmmm

I guess it's not too bad. It's a definate improvment over Pitchfork's usual output.

Just seems to me that he didn't have to write SO MUCH to get in all his points.

[jeph]

I wonder what all the anti-Pitchfork people who read QC are going to think on Friday.

Heh.

[Not An Addict]

A pretty useful list of indie-pop inspirations with an ass-load of words in between, that somehow managed not to draw links from the inspirations to modern acts like Deerhoof, AiH, the Sugarplastics. So . . . what was the point?

The point is that Pitchfork like hearing themselves talk.

[MilkmanDan]

I wonder what all the anti-Pitchfork people who read QC are going to think on Friday.

SPOILERZ!!1

[Bunnyman]

I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around the concept of "indie pop."  I mean, if, as MC Frontalot so eloquently states, you must be "somewhere in between unpopular and hated (or else get excommunicated)" in order to be indie, becoming indie-pop is the simultaneous state of being two mutually exclusive concepts, therefore negating existence.  To be truly indie pop, one must not only be unpopular, but also popular and noncorporeal.

I'm sure Gene Ray has something to add to this topic.

[RUMBLEMOOSE]

It's pop-as-marketing-style vs. pop-as-music-style, round 1:

Britney Spears (marketing style)
vs.
Tiger Trap (music style)

They're like two different schools of kung fu except one school SUCKS.

[MilkmanDan]

I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around the concept of "indie pop."

You could read the article?

[Kai]

It's simple; basically, imagine punk, but take the awesome anger and some of the crazy artiness out of it, and make it less raw and more acessible; There you go.

[sjbrot]

And that's the truth of it kids.

You there, with the Belle & Sebastian CD? You just don't have the balls to listen to punk.

[nickyandthefuture]

It's simple; basically, imagine punk, but take the awesome anger and some of the crazy artiness out of it, and make it less raw and more acessible; There you go.

what

[McTaggart]

I would have put more artiness in.

[Decima]

To me, indie/indiepop is bright eyes, flaming lips, b&w striped shirt and very slim pants.

[nickyandthefuture]

indiepop is bright eyes

I will destroy you and everyone you love.

Things that are indiepop:
-Cub playing shows in their pajamas
-The new Colin Clary album comes in a tiny sweater and most of the songs are about his friends.
-Handclaps

[Praeserpium Machinarum]

indiepop is Belle and Sebastian

fixed

[TrueNeutral]

I'm getting the odd urge to put on a 'Twee as Fuck' T-shirt and then proceed to start listening to Opeth just for how wrong it seems.

[nickyandthefuture]

On the indiepop list, the genre "Tweevil" was named.  There are no bands yet, but it is already the greatest.

[Merkava]

I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around the concept of "indie pop."  I mean, if, as MC Frontalot so eloquently states, you must be "somewhere in between unpopular and hated (or else get excommunicated)" in order to be indie, becoming indie-pop is the simultaneous state of being two mutually exclusive concepts, therefore negating existence.  To be truly indie pop, one must not only be unpopular, but also popular and noncorporeal.

I'm sure Gene Ray has something to add to this topic.

Of course, Indie Rock is also believed to refer to a type of sound and pop really means the chorus/verse/chorus structure in a song.

[ASturge]

I think of 'Indie ' as a sound nowadays, rather then 'Independent' or 'Band that is not mainstream'.

The Killers are indie, just reeeeeealy shit indie.

[KharBevNor]

On the indiepop list, the genre "Tweevil" was named.  There are no bands yet, but it is already the greatest.

Zombina and the Skeletones could arguably be described as tweevil, though I would call their aesthetic 'cutesygoth'. I rather enjoy them in small doses, probably the closest I come to the whole 'twee' aesthetic. You may enjoy their more saccharine tracks such as 'Transylvanian Xmas', 'Horror Highschool' and 'The Count (of Five)'. My personal favourite is 'Nobody Likes You When You're Dead'

"Nobody likes you when you're dead,
and that ain't right!
Just 'coz I'm biting on your head,
there's no need to be impolite.
And if I still had eyes,
Well, I would surely cry.
Nobody likes you when you're dead,
and that's the story of my life!"

They play halloween gigs in primary schools with their occasional swearwords left out, so I presume they fit the bill somewhat.

[nickyandthefuture]

Thanks for pointing them out Khar - they're pretty amusing!

[saturnine1979]

i thoroughly enjoyed the article, as indie pop is assuredly my favourite genre of music.

i'm hoping to get a hold of the albums discussed.
very interested.

[nickyandthefuture]

If you're interested in some more recent indie pop, take note that http://www.shelflife.com">Shelflife Records is having a big moving sale where pretty much all of their catalogue is going for $1 per CD.  Holy fucking shit.  I strongly recommend Language of Flowers (sounds a lot like Heavenly), Souvenir (bouncy French pop), Evening Lights (a band which has Laura Watling in it, which is always reason enough to buy the album- they remind me of the Softies a bit) and, well, Laura Watling. <3 .