The Drum Thread

[KeepACoolin]

Drum solos, in my opinion, suck.

For the most part, I agree, but there are a few exceptions.  If you don't mind dropping thirty bucks, and are one of the few people on this forum with a real taste for classic rock, I recommend the self-titled Led Zeppelin DVD, and watching "Moby Dick" on the first disc.  Absolutely unbelievable.

[Dazed]

Also every drum solo ever by Billy Cobham. Bad drum solos are the worst. Good drum solos are awesome.

[Patrick]

Rush's Neil Peart is a fucking fantastic drummer but I think his rockouts are a bit over-rehearsed. I mean, every single time they play "YYZ" live, it is always the exact same. Absolutely no variation in any part of the routine.

Then again, I guess that stops Rush from devolving into a shitty jam band, so that's good. Self-regulation is admirable. Still, though, I sometimes wonder what Neil's improvisational skills are like, and feel bad that maybe two people in the world get to see them.

[KeepACoolin]

My favorite bands tend to be the ones with some improvisational ability.  I think it's a lot more fun to hear the different decisions they make on different cuts than to just hear the same exact thing- the Eagles did that, and that's why they're exceptionally boring.

[turtlspinr]

here's what i'm playing on right now





GMS Grand Master Series kit 10x9, 12x9, 16x16, 22x18. Slingerland Sound King 14x8 snare.
Cymbals, l-r. 18in Paiste Prototype China, 14in Paiste Twenty hihats, 13in Paiste Signature Mega Cup Chime, 9in Zildjian Zil-bel, 19in Paiste Prototype Crash, 20in Paiste 2002 Rock Crash, 18in Paiste Alpha Rock China, 21in Zildjian Z mega bell ride.

[Dazed]

That's a lot of Paiste, I'm generally not a fan of them. Nice kit/set up though.

EDIT: what is that cymbal rack you're using?

[KeepACoolin]

I love Paiste, but I prefer matched cymbals- I rock the 2002s right now, and they have really good complementary tone.  That being said, that's a very impressive set up.

[turtlspinr]

That's a lot of Paiste, I'm generally not a fan of them. Nice kit/set up though.

EDIT: what is that cymbal rack you're using?

it's a Pearl DR503-C. I'm only using the front, I don't use the side extensions. I like my stuff to be right out in front of me, never to the sides, so the side wings are not needed.

I love Paiste. to me their cymbals sound the best. unfortunately they don't make anything quite like the Zil Bel or the Z series Mega Bell ride (before they became the Z Custom line and began lathing them), so I'm stuck using a zildjian product for those. Never been a fan of all matching cymbals, i like having some serious contrast in sound. Paiste cymbals tend to compliment each other well though, regardless of series. If i had the $$$, I'd switch out all my crashes and chinas for all Twenty series stuff. Soooooo nice. Can't imagine ever getting rid of the Mega Bell though.

[Dazed]

Interesting, I've been meaning to pick up a decent rack since I'm out of room for stands around my kit. How do you like that one?

[turtlspinr]

love it. Pearl hardware is the only way to go. Great value for what you are getting.

As far as racks go, anything but the DR503C is kinda dumb. We're going to hang heavy objects off a round tube and be surprised when things slip? Yea, but the Pearl, get a square tube and NOTHING ever moves. Plus, it's stable enough that you can remove one, or both, of the side wings and there's no danger of it tipping or becoming wonky.

I can't say enough good things about Pearl hardware. the only other company I own anything by is gibraltar (and who doesn't have gibraltar pieces somewhere???) and Axis for my pedals. Soon as I get the cash together, the two gibraltar cymbal arms are getting replaced with CH100s. NO ONE makes hardware that can compete with Pearl's, especially when you look at the money you're putting down for it.

[Ballard]

See also: Janet Weiss in her work with Sleater-Kinney.

I can see it.

[Dazed]

Oh man, drum thread. Exciting times. I decided to reward myself for not fucking up this year at college by upgrading my hardware, including the purchase of the rack we were discussing above.

So this is what the kit looks like as of 5 minutes ago, it's set up in the living room at the moment because I'm out of room in the basement.







Whooooo

[KeepACoolin]

Question time: what do people feel about coated/clear heads?  At the moment, I have coated snare, clear toms and bass.  I've never had anything different.  Do you guys feel like the difference is significant?  If so, how exactly do you find it modifies the sound?

[Dazed]

Probably obvious from my kit, but I'm a clear fan myself.

[turtlspinr]

Question time: what do people feel about coated/clear heads?  At the moment, I have coated snare, clear toms and bass.  I've never had anything different.  Do you guys feel like the difference is significant?  If so, how exactly do you find it modifies the sound?

it really comes down to what sound you're looking for, and what will sound best on the drums you play. as a general rule, coated heads tend to be a bit warmer and rounder sounding than clear heads, which tend to have a little bit more attack and bite to their sound.

there really are no rules as to what should be used on what drum. best i can say is figure out what sound you want. then try to think of what your drums are designed to sound like, because each drum has its own unique tuning range and ideal pitch and tone. a birch drum will never be as warm as a maple or mohogany, and neither mohogany or maple will have the attack that birch gives you. same goes for a snare...there are certain tones, sounds, and pitches that different types of drums simply can't achieve because of their depth/diameter or shell material.

really though, the only way to go about it is through trial and error.

[kyleg]

So I'm looking to upgrade my cymbals in the near future. I'm for the most part a metal drummer, though I do venture into blues, punk, and funk from time to time. I played on a friend's kit that has A-Customs and those are almost perfect for what I'm trying to do, especially the 22" ping ride. Since I'm fixing to spend some decent change on these, are there any other lines by other brands I should check out befor I go for the Zildjian A-Customs?

For ref- I play a Gretsch Catalina Maple kit.

edit: hi thread necro

[turtlspinr]

yea, check out all of them, and take a long time doing it. don't worry about brand, worry about sound. take a cymbal you already have that you want to keep playing along with whatever new ones you buy, and compare new ones in the store to it to make sure they compliment each other.

if you're playing harder/louder/heavier music, i'd avoid any crashes smaller than 17 inches. also, splashes are kinda going to be a waste unless you're going to be playing with a kit that always is going to have microphones on it. no one will hear them otherwise, especially in a loud setting, and you'll inevitably end up hitting them harder and harder trying to get more volume out of them, and just end up breaking them. i'd also avoid chinas that are smaller than 18 inches, the exception being Zildjian's Oriental China Trash in 16. any other 16 inch china i've ever played didn't endure, and i don't hit particularly hard, or with poor technique. can't go wrong with 18 inch chinas, in any type of music. 20 inch chinas are cool, but just too hard to control, the exception being Paiste's Twenty series 20 inch. that's just awesome. or if you can find one of their Signature Dark Energy chinas in 20 inches....they're discontinued, but they're still out there.

for your ride cymbal, are you going to be solely playing it with the tip of the stick on the body and the shank of the stick on the bell, or are you going to be crashing on it too? what sort of metal are you playing? are we talking Brutus, Fleshcrawl, and Blood Red Throne type metal? or are we talking Winds Of Plague/Despised Icon breakdown metalcore?

if you want a nice heavy ride with a good articulate body sound and a nice, piercing bell, Zildjian's K Custom Dry ride. it only comes in 20 inches, and sounds great. As do Sabian's AAX Raw Bell Dry Ride, Sabian's HH Raw Bell Dry Ride, Sabian's Vault Definition Ride, Zildjian's A Custom Rezo Ride, and Zildjian's Z3 Rock Ride, Paiste's Signature Dark Metal Ride, Signature Dry Heavy Ride or Signature Reflector Bell Ride, 2002 Power or Heavy rides, or Rude Power ride. All sound great and would work in many types of music. However, they're not suitable for crashing....they're too heavy, and you'd end up breaking them fairly quickly due to their lack of flexibility.

if you want a ride to crash on, in addition to their body and bell sounds, Sabian's Vault Encore ride, Paiste's Rude Crash/Ride, Zildjian's Sweet Ride or K Crash/ride. these are all designed to flex, and are somewhat thinner weight cymbals.

for hihats, you've got to figure out what you'll be playing more often than not. if your hats are going to be kept half open at all time, and you'll be rarely playing them with your foot, then go for something heavy that'll give you insane volume. Zildjian's Z3 Dyno Beat would be a great option for that. however, they're only going to be used for metal or punk, something where subtlety or nuance isn't required. If you need something that has the capability to be versatile, then go for a hihat set that has a thicker cymbal on the bottom, and a somewhat lighter cymbal on top. Zildjian's K/Z combo or any Mastersoud models, Sabian's AAX Fusion or Xcelerator hihats, or Paiste's Twenty or 2002 Heavy Hihats or Rude Sound Edge hihats would all be good options.

don't rush into anything, and don't worry about making sure they all match, brand or series wise. take time to find the best sound for you and the way you play. if you're going to drop upwards of $1300 on four cymbals, you'd better be happy with them, and happy with playing them, for years.

[kyleg]

I've definitely decided on Z Custom/Z3 Dyno Beat for my hihat. They're just perfect for grooving on(think Clutch or the slower side of Pantera) and they sound great when I need to open them up to start a fill(think Maiden or Sabbath).

I need to give Paiste the time of day though. I've tried most of those rides minus the Paiste, and the Ping Ride is the one I've been coming back to.

Really appreciate the post. Very informative stuff.

I guess because I can, my kit

http://s386.photobucket.com/albums/oo310/kguillemette/?action-view&current=001-2.jpg&newest=1
http://s386.photobucket.com/albums/oo310/kguillemette/?action-view&current=002-1.jpg&newest=1

I love so much. It's time to move away from ZXT's though.

[turtlspinr]

if you're liking the sound JP Gaster from Clutch has out of his hihats, avoid the Dyno Beats then. WAY too heavy. He's using Meinl Byzance Traditional Medium hihats.

if you enjoy his hihat sound, which is kind of dark, try the Paiste Twenty hats. They can get you some serious volume while still being articulate.

[kyleg]

if you're liking the sound JP Gaster from Clutch has out of his hihats, avoid the Dyno Beats then. WAY too heavy. He's using Meinl Byzance Traditional Medium hihats.

if you enjoy his hihat sound, which is kind of dark, try the Paiste Twenty hats. They can get you some serious volume while still being articulate.

Will do. Really appreciate the advice from someone who's seen it all apparently.

[turtlspinr]

not quite all, but a good part of it, having spent the last 5 years selling drum gear for a living.

[turtlspinr]

just so you don't think i'm some loudmouth internet expert spouting baseless opinions on gear, i figured i'd share some photos....

some people have a girlfriend, i have drums.



my ride cymbals. from left to right: early 1990s Zildjian 21inch Z Custom Mega Bell Ride, mid 1980s 21inch Zildjian Z Mega Bell Ride, mid 1970s 18inch Ufip Medium ride, 1998 22inch Zildjian Z Custom Ride, 2008 20inch Paiste Twenty Prototype Light Ride, Late 1990s 20inch Paiste Signature Dry Dark Ride.


hihats and other misc sounds. from left to right: Paiste Dimensions 14inch Medium Heavy Crunch Hats, Paiste 14inch Twenty Hihats, (front) Paiste 13inch Signature Mega Cup Chime (back) Paiste 14inch 2002 Rock Hats, (front) Zildjian 9inch Zil Bel, (back) mid 1970s Zildjian 14inch New Beat Hihats, (front) Sabian 14in Radia bell, (back) 1998 Zildjian 14inch Z Custom Hihats, Sabian 14inch Paragon hihats.


my china cymbals. from left to right: Paiste 18inch Alpha china, Paiste 18inch New Alpha Rock china, Paiste 18inch Alpha prototype china.


my crashes. from left to right: Sabian 18in AA Medium crash, Paiste 19in 2002 Prototype thin crash, Paiste 19inch 2002 crash, 18inch Zildjian Z Custom Rock crash, Zildjina 16inch Z Crash, Zildjian 16inch A Custom Projection crash, 19inch Zildjian A Custom crash, 18inch Sabian AAXplosion crash. In the box is a 20inch Paiste 2002 Power Crash.


some of my snares. top to bottom: DW black nickel over brass 14x5, Slingerland Sound King 14x8 brass, 1970s Pearl maple 14x5, 1972 Rogers Dynasonic 14x5.5, GMS Grand Master maple 14x6, Yamaha Jimmy Chamberlain 14x5.5


my main kit


my scaled down kit

i've got more stuff at home that i don't use at the moment and didn't feel like unburying from my closet.... 18inch Zildjian A Custom china, 16in Zildjian oriental china trash, 18inch Sabian AAX stage crash, 20inch Paiste Prototype dry dark ride, Rogers 14x6.5 snare, Tama Imperialstar 14x6.5 snare, Ludwig 1970s 14x5.5 Acrolite snare, Pearl 14x3.5 Free Floating snare with copper shell, and a Rogers 14x5.5 Powertone and 14x5.5 Dynasonic shells that need hardware and rims.


before we unleash metal, we hydrate


metal drummer goes surf


more surf shenanigans.

[kyleg]

That is some serious gear there, man. That's a lot of premium cymbals.

In other news, I've updated my hats to Paiste signature 14" Sound Edge. It was love at first sight when I tried them out.

[turtlspinr]

excellent acquisition. they're great hihats.

hopefully the salesperson who sold them to you warned you about cleaning them. In case he didn't, use ONLY the Paiste cleaner in the orange bottle, and use it sparingly. DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES use any other cleaner like Groove Juice, Zims, the Zildjian cream or Sabian spray.....Paiste puts a finishing coat on their cymbals that will be taken off by any cleaner other than the Paiste stuff. I'd still even avoid that if possible. It's inevitable that your cymbals will get dirty, but with Paiste you should just be able to use a clean cloth to take off fingerprints because of the coating they apply....fingerprints and such should just wipe off. If not, try a slightly damp rag, not soaked, but just a little moist.

[Failcake]

As much as I love all this talk of set drums... Where the corps drummers at?

[turtlspinr]

Here's almost all of my drums

1968 Ludwig Standard kit

1995 GMS Grand Master kit






























































Not pictured are the cymbals and snares I used this last weekend....they're in the van at the guitarist's house...Tama Starclassic Brass 5.5x14 snare, Pork Pie black nickel over brass 6.5x14 snare, 14in Meinl MB20 Heavy Soundwave Hihats, 19in Meinl MB20 Heavy Crash, 20in Meinl MB20 Heavy Crash, 21in Z Custom Mega Bell Ride, 18in Meinl MB20 Rock China, 14in Meinl Byzance Sand Hats, 20in Meinl Byzance Sand Ride, 22in Meinl Byzance Medium Crash, 18in Meinl Byzance Extra Dry Thin Crash.

[Patrick]

I haven't been in this thread since May '09 and when I saw that photodump I nearly jizzed myself. And bonus points to whomever is responsible for that '68 Ludwig standard kit. I jizzed twice just for that.

[turtlspinr]

The 68 Standard is mine, as is all the gear in the previous post.

[Zingoleb]

See also: Janet Weiss in her work with Sleater-Kinney.

I can see it.

Fun fact: I read this post while I happened to be listening to Touch-A Touch-A Touch me.

[Boo]

Ah!  Drum thread!  Me like.

I'm new to the forum (just signed up today), and having a mooch about.  Always happy to talk drum porn gear.

Still playing my trusty Pearl Export that I've had since '89, but with plenty of upgrades...

Pearl Masters Custom 14" x 6.5" Maple snare with Canopus snare wires
BD Drums, one-off 14" x 5" Birch snare
Pearl Free Floating 14" x 3.5" Brass Piccolo snare

Bass pedal and Hi-Hat are both Pearl Eliminator Powershifter (highly recommended!)

And the metal...

Paiste Signature

13" Dark Crisp Hi-hats
21" Dark Crisp Ride
20" Flat Ride
15" Fast Crash
16" Mellow Crash
17" Fast Crash
18" Full Crash
10" Splash
8" Bell

Also...

Zildjian 13" Quick Beat Hi-hats
Zildjian 17" K China
Wuhan 14" China

And as much percussion as I can hide in the cupboard under the stairs without my wife finding it.

Someone was talking (probably a long time ago) about bass drum damping.  I've tried many different methods over the years, but this was a revelation.  Kills the over ring, but lets the drum sing.  And is much lighter than having a big old pillow in there...