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Author Topic: Smash Brothers Brawl  (Read 336143 times)

Narr

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1050 on: 07 Apr 2008, 15:43 »

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/hidden10.html

Jigglypuff is an "it."

i've just always used female terms for Jigglypuff because all the alternate costumes are feminine.  There's the hairbow, the giant flower-lady style hat...
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seebanks

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1051 on: 07 Apr 2008, 15:54 »

Although "it's" sleep move has been weakened for Brawl, which I'm not that big of a fan of.
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will: wanton sex god

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1052 on: 07 Apr 2008, 16:48 »

JP is still decent.   She's still a standby/go to for me.  i like her
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Narr

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1053 on: 07 Apr 2008, 18:59 »

The thing about Jigglypuff most people don't tend to do is use her in the air.  She floats faster in the air than she does running on the ground.  It's a speed thing, as well as a damage thing.

Rollout is still awesome, too.
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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1054 on: 08 Apr 2008, 08:27 »

Jigglypuffs can be either gender.
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seebanks

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1055 on: 08 Apr 2008, 09:49 »

I also miss the headband costume for JP. They gave it to Pikachu, like he needs it.
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Narr

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1056 on: 08 Apr 2008, 13:29 »

Jigglypuffs can be either gender.
That was officially the best post in this thread.
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JD

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1057 on: 08 Apr 2008, 20:06 »

Pokemon are still my biggest group of trophies...no surprise there. :roll:
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JediBendu

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1058 on: 10 Apr 2008, 09:26 »

I played this for hours a day for a good few weeks after release. Sadly, it truly isn't as good as Melee.

The thing that bothers me most is the lack of hitstun, meaning that I can't follow-up my attacks without a good possibility my opponent will either airdodge or attack with a higher priority move, meaning that I can't control a match as well as I could in Melee, even when I know I'm much better than the person I'm playing. However, for group matches and most casual play I'll probably still be playing Brawl, partially due to the fact that most people I know would baw at the suggestion of playing Melee instead.

And Toon Link is looking like he could be slightly broken in this game. I hate playing Toon Link more than any other character. Just to inform you in case you were wondering, I've been playing almost exclusively Zero-Suit Samus cause she's amazing, despite the fact that she's the only new character I was kind of wishing they hadn't even put in the game pre-release. Shorthop forward air with Ike is also fun to do to all my Ike spamming friends who don't know what they're doing and just spam counter and smash B.
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seebanks

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1059 on: 10 Apr 2008, 09:31 »

I can't get the hang of Zero-Suit Samus. I've been playing Ice Climbers almost exclusively, which others seem to find quite annoying.
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JediBendu

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1060 on: 10 Apr 2008, 09:39 »

In group matches and for kills, ZSamus's smash B whip is a beast (so far I've managed to do things like hit all three of my friend's who were playing at once, KOing two of them). Also sometimes short hop whip can make a pretty good approach. And up air is great for juggling and star KOs (though as I mentioned before, there's a great possibility that you won't be able to properly follow-up in the air in Brawl.) Back air and forward air both make pretty good finishers. Though back air has more solid and reliable knockback.

As far as other reliable ZSamus moves, neutral combo, forward smash and up smash are all pretty reliable. Neutral B is pretty situational. But if you get the hang of it you can do some pretty sweet stuff with it.

Edit:Oh ya, and if somebody's edgehogging your tether, then her down B is a third jump.

Edit 2: And I almost forgot, I like her tether grab much more than Link's or regular Samus's, oddly. I don't know why. Her and Lucas have pretty decent tether grabs, which I usually don't like. I also have a tendency to grab+down throw+any air attack with any character in the game, so I didn't mention it for ZSamus, but it can work okay with her up air. And as far as grabs go, Dedede's down throw chaingrab is the most fun thing to annoy your friends with.

Edit 3: How could I forget? Opening a match with ZSamus means you spawn with items, even in a non-item match. And if you know what you're doing then having items SPAWN AT YOUR FEET at the beginning of a match is certainly a good thing, especially in a one-on-one.
« Last Edit: 10 Apr 2008, 09:54 by JediBendu »
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Narr

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1061 on: 10 Apr 2008, 13:27 »

Wait.

You don't like Brawl as much as Melee because... it's more fair?  *boggle*  In essence, that's what you're saying.  I fail to see how giving players more options to stay alive because it's harder for other players to follow-up with insane combos is a bad thing.

@ Seebanks: Ice Climbers piss me off when they are in the hand of a skilled player.  I swear to god, every time I do some sort of ranged move, it just hits the backup Ice Climber, so the actual player is still around to whallop with his hammer.
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JD

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1062 on: 10 Apr 2008, 13:29 »

i have sort-of-kind-of-maybe gotten the hang of sonic. I still roll myself off the edge though.
oh and i abuse fox and falco's  side+b moves to the point were it is my only attack.
R.O.B has pretty much become my standby.
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Storm Rider

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1063 on: 10 Apr 2008, 14:05 »

Lucas and Ike are still my favorite characters, although I played this game so much for the first couple of weeks after it came out I'm kind of burned out on it right now.
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JediBendu

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1064 on: 10 Apr 2008, 14:22 »

Wait.

You don't like Brawl as much as Melee because... it's more fair?  *boggle*  In essence, that's what you're saying.  I fail to see how giving players more options to stay alive because it's harder for other players to follow-up with insane combos is a bad thing.

You don't know much about Smash, I guess. It actually takes a certain amount of skill to control the match like I'm talking about in Melee. People who aren't good can complain about combos all they want but in Smash comboing wasn't mindless and easy, and even though they were often hard to escape from, a skilled defensive player could DI out of it. Controlling the match in Melee is all about predicting your opponent's DI and knowing what moves to use to continue your dominance. Not only that but the hitstun on moves in Brawl is sometimes less than the lag of the move itself. Meaning that my opponent can sometimes be free to attack before I've even overcome the lag of the move I used. So in the split second period when I knocked Toon Link into the air above me with ZSamus, and I attempt to immediately follow it up with an uair, he's already overcome all of his hitstun and uses his overpowered, godly dair which pretty much outprioritizes anything I could do.

It's not more fair, they just handed a bunch of unfair options on the defensive side in Brawl for the noobs. It may seem like Melee's less fair to you, but the players who you see as unfair by dominating with insane combos are really just that much better for you. Not only that but there are actually a lot of mindless "insane combo" type things (Dedede's dthrow chaingrabs which are so incredibly simple to pull off any monkey can do it)

That being said, the better players are still better, so it doesn't even matter if you disagree with those of us who think the game's worse. Don't put words in my mouth if you don't actually know what you're talking about.

And if you want to say something like "well I'll challenge you to Brawl anyday" don't even bother cause I don't feel like playing you, I don't enjoy online play, and I'm not even relatively that great at Brawl yet anyway. Because I got tired of trying to get better when I realized that every single person I know basically had a "get used to the feel of the game period" and then basically the game gives noobs hand outs as long as they know how to hold the controller and the basic physics.

Brawl is fun as long as you're playing FFA's or just plain don't care about winning or losing at all. But that's the extent of it.
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Storm Rider

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1065 on: 10 Apr 2008, 14:30 »

tourneykid BAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
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JediBendu

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1066 on: 10 Apr 2008, 14:33 »

Actually I've never been to a tournament in my life. I can just measure the pros and cons of two games without having to look through rose-tinted glasses.

I love Brawl, I'm not denying. But it's just not as good as Melee if you're actually going to play someone one-on-one.

The competitive aspect of a game is still somewhat important even if you're not a "tourneyfag." But I guess it's fun to dumb down your side to insults and whatnot if anybody disagrees with you.

Now if you want to actually say something that actually has any substance or meaning, you're more than welcome to.
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Narr

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1067 on: 10 Apr 2008, 14:52 »

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JediBendu

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1068 on: 10 Apr 2008, 15:02 »

I totally forgot that video games are one of the few subjects that if you're even a little bit knowledgeable about something you're open to insults.

So basically because I know how to play the game, and I have an opinion about why Brawl is inferior, that makes me a tourneykid even though by definition I am the exact opposite.

Apparantly I'm the only one who has any idea what I'm talking about.

Edit: It's also hilarious that Narr was trying really hard to be the big Brawl authority before I came on this thread and now he's just playing the Devil's Advocate to the "tourneyfag" or "tourneykid" now that I'm here.
« Last Edit: 10 Apr 2008, 15:06 by JediBendu »
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Narr

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1069 on: 10 Apr 2008, 15:10 »

Tournykid doesn't mean you play it tournys.  It means you overanalyze a GAME to the point you can simply tell everyone else they are wrong for enjoying it because it's simple and therefore "noob friendly."

If you were giving me strategies on how to rush with Necrons in Dawn of War or were telling me how awesome of a combo you can pull off with Chun-Li, I'd say the same thing.

I suppose I overanalyze, too, but in a different way (as of late).  I personally think the fact they "dummied" the game down to make it more accessible to more people increases the fun factor exponentially.  It's just fun, instead of being a giant wank-fest about who is better at what.
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JediBendu

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1070 on: 10 Apr 2008, 15:18 »

I never said it wasn't fun. It's a fun party game. But as a fighting game it's not nearly as good as Melee, and Melee was good as both a party game and a competitive game, which in my opinion makes it infinitely better. None of the "dumbing down" has actually made the game anymore fun as a party game, in my opinion.

Also, you all were discussing the merits of certain characters over other characters. Which has an aspect of competitiveness to it.

And I'm not actually analyzing that hard. But when I play the game I just understand clearly what's going on. I guess it's just because I've played enough of it, but when I play the game I seem to have a clearer grasp of the flow of the game than my friends do. So when I get frustrated with it I can put why it's frustrating into words. It's not that I'm thinking too hard about it, it's just that I understand the game.

The fact that you're actually arguing and insulting me over my opinion on a GAME actually probably says more about you than it does me. Just because I have a hobby that I enjoy doesn't merit you insulting me or telling me that I'm too invested in something I actually don't do much. (I hardly play video games, but Smash is pretty much the only games I play.)

Edit: Basically, Melee was great for both casual players and competitive players. Everybody loved that game. You could play it for pure fun (which I did a lot) or you could play it against your friends on a competitive leve to see who's better. So both types of players liked it. But look at Brawl, the majority of the competitive community is rejecting the game, whether they just think it's not a worthwhile competitive game or they totally hate the game, and basically most of the people who love the game are casual players. So basically, what's the better game, the game that appeals to everyone or the game that doesn't?
« Last Edit: 10 Apr 2008, 15:25 by JediBendu »
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Narr

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1071 on: 10 Apr 2008, 15:29 »

The game that appeals to the wider audience rarely appeals to the competitive audience.  It's just fact.

I've also never looked at Smash Brothers as a fighting game, although it's hard to put it in any other genre.  To me, it's a party game.  Always will be.  I think the game's creator feels that way, too, considering he went out of his way to remove things competitive gamers loved like wavedashing and the like.

If I want a fighting game, and a competitive one, I'm going to fire up some iteration of King of Fighters.  Sort of like how if I want massive team-based FPS, I fire up Battlefield but if I want 1v1 murderfests, I fire up Unreal Tournament.

I apologize for coming across like an ass, btw.  I do that a lot because I'm an extremely opinionated person and have been under a lot of stress for the past 6 months for reasons I don't really want to get into.  Please accept my apology.
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JediBendu

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1072 on: 10 Apr 2008, 15:43 »

I think Melee appealed to a huge audience (the Gamecube's best selling title by far, I believe) and still had a very strong competitive scene, and I think everybody knows how strong the tournament scene was for Melee.

I actually never thought of it really as a fighting game either. I just thought of it as Smash. Also, I would've been fine with the removal of wavedashing (which I didn't use that much except for when I was Luigi, I tried to wavedash when I first played Brawl as Luigi) or L-cancelling (which I also didn't use that much cause it was a pain to integrate into regular playing, and I was already beating everyone I knew anyway.) if they had just kept a reasonable amount of hitstun. I mean the floatiness and large amount of DI in Brawl gives defensive players good escape possibility anyway, I don't see why they had to basically nerf all attacks in the game. (That's basically what happened, nerfing attacks and buffing defense.)

And it's totally fine. Apology accepted. I also apologize for basically telling you you don't know anything about the game. It was just spurred on by the fact that I believed my opinion was perfectly justified and clear.

Also, I admit that I've been playing Brawl inbetween classes today because of this thread. I got a funny replay of me basically killing myself a million times as ZSamus. I still try and spike people over the edge with her down air, knowing full well it means my death.
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Narr

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1073 on: 10 Apr 2008, 18:00 »

I do that all the time with Toon Link if I play him right after playing regular Link.  I'm so used to trying to pogo sword people down that I forget he goes super fast with his down+A in the air.
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Thy Dungeonman

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1074 on: 10 Apr 2008, 18:44 »

Does anyone notice that the CPUs have a tendency to gang up on you? I thought the AI was better than it was in Melee, but I realize now that 4-way brawls are essentially 3v1. This is starting to annoy me a bit.
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LordNagash

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1075 on: 11 Apr 2008, 00:17 »

I still find it easy to control a match, especially against my RL friends who are mostly much worse than I am. I do not see the problem with raising defences while lowering attack. It just makes the tactics different, not worse.
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JediBendu

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1076 on: 11 Apr 2008, 04:21 »

No offense... but play people who are better at the game, or get better at the game yourself if you don't believe me. There is a problem to it, whether it affects you or not, there is a problem that competitive players have been noticing left and right since the game debuted. I can still control against certain people as well, but once somebody figures out what they're doing or their tactics lend itself to defensive playing (a counter spammer I know who can now basically counter between all of my attacks while in Melee if I managed to punish an unsuccessful counter it actually gave me the advantage, rather than still having to predict and punish counters over and over again) then I'm going to have a harder time whether that person's skill in the game has increased, or whether they've just figured out how to push the R button or dair everytime I attack them.
« Last Edit: 11 Apr 2008, 04:28 by JediBendu »
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Storm Rider

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1077 on: 11 Apr 2008, 10:39 »

So your opinion is essentially "I don't like this game and if you disagree you're not good enough at it?"

Good for you, I guess?
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Cartilage Head

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1078 on: 11 Apr 2008, 16:13 »

 Dude, if you are going to get all uppity about a videogame, make it one that is a little more technical.
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LordNagash

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1079 on: 11 Apr 2008, 23:47 »

If playing with a defensive strategy is what is good in brawl, why not use that? It just sounds like these 'competitive' players are complaining because the strategy they want to use is no longer the best. How is this not the case? Is there perhaps an argument I could read somewhere?
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just-another-andy

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1080 on: 12 Apr 2008, 07:35 »

SBB is still not out here in the uk! we've been waiting forever, taunted by threads like this for months.
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will: wanton sex god

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1081 on: 12 Apr 2008, 08:26 »

If playing with a defensive strategy is what is good in brawl, why not use that? It just sounds like these 'competitive' players are complaining because the strategy they want to use is no longer the best. How is this not the case? Is there perhaps an argument I could read somewhere?

Thats exactly what i feel Jedi's arguments have boiled down to.  I'm not saying that's how he feels, but thats how it's coming across.
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JediBendu

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1082 on: 13 Apr 2008, 15:46 »

So your opinion is essentially "I don't like this game and if you disagree you're not good enough at it?"

Good for you, I guess?

Actually not at all, if you like the game that's fine. But the problem for more competitive players is definitely there whether you disagree or not. And if anyone is going to say that the problem some people have is not legitimate, then I would say you're just not playing with the same mindset or on the same level as those who have the problem. If you like the game that's fine too, but we have our opinion too and if anyone is to try and say, "well I don't think what you think is based on is even true" then I would say "Well, play like us."

My opinion of you though, is that I'm expressing my opinion respectfully and you're just too stupid too understand. So. Good for you, I suppose.

And to everyone else, it's not that the "strategy" has changed, it's just that ATTACK and DEFENSE are now unbalanced. It shouldn't be like that. Both should have merits. Of course there can always be players whose strategy is to play more defensively, and it's not like competitive playing in Melee was about "attack attack attack," (again, don't say anything about a community if you don't know anything about it) but in any game the player who is being attacked should not be given unbalanced advantages over the attacker.

And Cartilage Head, though I'm not saying that I'm being "uppity" why is it better to get "uppity" about a technical game? Does that justify being "uppity?" and again, how am I being as such? Is me not liking a game and explaining why in a reasonable way (though, being flamed, of course) now cause for alarm? Perhaps your perceptions are slightly askew.

I'm not very uppity honestly, I'm just expressing my legitimate opinion about a game I enjoy, and am being attacked by morons who having nothing better to do than insult me and not say anything to back up their own opinions in the least (well really just Storm Rider) and I have no respect for that whatsoever.
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Storm Rider

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1083 on: 13 Apr 2008, 18:29 »

Oooh, aren't you a big man, calling people stupid on the Internet. I'll have to somehow live with the crushing knowledge of your disapproval.
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Cartilage Head

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1084 on: 13 Apr 2008, 21:09 »

 Internet tough-guy.
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Narr

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1085 on: 13 Apr 2008, 23:10 »

Isn't stormrider a mod?  Guy's been around quite awhile and as far as I can tell is pretty amicable to most everyone unless they get really out-of-control.

Just saying.

Also: I had a big in depth response written then decided it just wasn't worth it because jedi's not going to listen to reason anyway.
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JediBendu

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1086 on: 13 Apr 2008, 23:21 »

Please tell me, please, how I'm being a tough guy? I would honestly truly like to know. I would really like to know how trying to express my opinion as clearly as I can, and simply responding quite simply to your own inneffective insults is somehow me being a tough-guy. I have not threatened you, I have done nothing. I simply have responded to your rather base and simple attempts to insult me in kind. I'm not attempting to be "big" or "tough" by calling you stupid. I simply believe you are quite simply, an idiot, at the very least in this instance. Your handling of this rather inconsequential situation is incredibly immature (for some reason I believe you're actually older than me as well, which is quite pathetic) and your insistence on dragging this internet conflict on is also stupid. It's just idiotic and I'm sorry I have no better way to put it. I wonder if you actually understand what it is your accusing me of, that somehow I feel "tough" when my manner suggests nothing of the sort.

In particular, I did not even have a genuine argument with either Storm Rider or Cartilage Head, which leads me to believe they're just itching for some sort of internet conflict. Which, would actually be much more sad than if I actually were an internet tough guy. I wonder why you both decided to insult me in the first place? Is there some reason? I have seen no expression of your own opinion. There is not any semblance of a discussion between us, so why do you see fit to insult me? Somehow your behavior seems completely pointless.

That said, I do not want to argue, and I do not want to be flamed. I am not trying to do anything but discuss the topic of this thread. If this forum is just too terribly unreceptive then I can honestly find better things to do. It's really not that big a deal. I am only asking that you just give up on it and if you have something to say about Smash, then perhaps you can say it. Otherwise. Just leave me alone.

And of course, I can already predict that there might be some comment about my relatively long posts responding to this subject. And let me just go ahead and say that I really see nothing wrong with taking a mere 5 or 10 minutes to attempt to formulate an intelligent post, even if I'm responding to people who refuse to do anything but insult me, insults which I did little to deserve in truth.

Edit to Narr: I'm really dissapointed, I thought we understood each other. At any rate I will say the only reason my manner is at it is now is that I feel quite attacked in this thread. For what I don't know. My intention was not malicious in the least. My intention was to discuss a game and I meant no offense to any person until I myself was attacked.
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E. Spaceman

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1087 on: 13 Apr 2008, 23:43 »

tourneykid BAWWWW
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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1088 on: 13 Apr 2008, 23:43 »

seriously though, kids. Relax, it is a videogame. It is fun to play, that's basically it.
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JediBendu

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1089 on: 13 Apr 2008, 23:53 »

Fine, everyone. This isn't about the game anymore. This is just about me feeling attacked. But I realize that you don't like me. I apologize if anyone felt offended and that I should have realized you would be unreceptive to my opinions. I apologize and I meant no harm, I just meant to discuss, and I really did want to discuss Brawl itself and not Melee vs. Brawl, my few comments on the subject were simply blown out of proportion and my honestly good intentions were I think ignored in favor of my more controversial views.

I agree it's just a videogame, but I don't think I'm at fault for making anything to big. I just felt that I was insulted, and being insulted over a videogame is a bit inexplicable to me.

Once again, I apologize. I apologize if I offended. And I apologize for contributing to an escalating argument.
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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1090 on: 14 Apr 2008, 09:56 »

HOW BOUT THAT BRAWWWWLLL
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will: wanton sex god

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1091 on: 14 Apr 2008, 09:59 »

Its pretty fun.  im getting beat regularly by a local kid.  thats less fun but still fun.  i may participate in a tournament where the prize is (ironically enough) an x360 :P
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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1092 on: 14 Apr 2008, 10:01 »

 My overall opinion? Very entertaining, very fun, but way overhyped.
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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1093 on: 14 Apr 2008, 10:09 »

Anything as hyped as Brawl was is going to get that in the description, though, unless it also has a kitchen sink and cooks breakfast.

Anyway, I've found that Marth's side B is one of the few attacks that can counter Wolf's smashes. They have an insane range.
Then again I guess I could try blocking more but I was never one to play defensively. Madcap action almost requires near-mindless attacking.
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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1094 on: 15 Apr 2008, 14:17 »

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Alex C

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1095 on: 15 Apr 2008, 22:31 »

Seriously, can we let the playstyle bashing drop now? This thread is starting to resemble the rest of the internet. That's not a good thing.
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ImRonBurgundy?

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1096 on: 16 Apr 2008, 02:03 »

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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1097 on: 17 Apr 2008, 12:44 »

Bendu you over analyzed the game and we poked fun at you for doing it... I'm guessing :? Pointless argument really.
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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1098 on: 18 Apr 2008, 08:05 »

^ We're trying to move past that part of this thread, for everyone's sake :)
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Re: Smash Brothers Brawl
« Reply #1099 on: 18 Apr 2008, 13:06 »

How do you get wolf? I haven't figured it out.
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