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[LeeC]

Well, looks like were back to plotting, back stabbing, and sucker punches to the audience.

[cybersmurf]

Well, looks like were back to plotting, back stabbing, and sucker punches to the audience.

Sometimes there's even sucker punching the audience by not sucker punching the audience.
And once Cersei is involved there's cold-blooded bitching, too.

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Cersei knows no chill. She's done 'biding her time' being married to Robert Baratheon, and now she doesn't even care the slightest.

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When you play the Game of Thrones, you either win or you die

Question is: Is Jon Snow part of the game, even though he doesn't want to?

[LeeC]

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The Messandei death wasn't a sucker punch, it was telegraphed earlier in the season with her and Greyworm talking about what they want to do after this is all over. Classic talk about retirement before being axed. The real sucker punch was Euron killing the dragon. It really seamed to come out of nowhere.

Although Jaime thinks her pregnancy is real, I'm pretty sure its still a fake. Otherwise she has been fine with drinking wine while pregnant and also willing to put herself and baby at risk to dragon fire. I am hoping Tyrion will figure this out next episode, knowing what he knows of Cersi. She has no heir to the throne and just wants to rule for the rest of her days and willing to die for whatever power she has.

[cybersmurf]

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The Messandei death wasn't a sucker punch, it was telegraphed earlier in the season with her and Greyworm talking about what they want to do after this is all over. Classic talk about retirement before being axed. The real sucker punch was Euron killing the dragon. It really seamed to come out of nowhere.

Although Jaime thinks her pregnancy is real, I'm pretty sure its still a fake. Otherwise she has been fine with drinking wine while pregnant and also willing to put herself and baby at risk to dragon fire. I am hoping Tyrion will figure this out next episode, knowing what he knows of Cersi. She has no heir to the throne and just wants to rule for the rest of her days and willing to die for whatever power she has.

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Well, boning Euron in the meantime, until she can dispose of him

[LeeC]

Wish this was some sort of gif bingo card. Crossing out the dead.

[TheEvilDog]

I haven't watched Game of Thrones, it doesn't interest me in the slightest, but I had to laugh when a friend of mine announced his theory as to the ending .

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Everyone dies.
Everyone sits on the Iron Throne, gets severe tetanus and dies a month later.

[LeeC]

Fire and Blood

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Dammit Dany! The Holocaust of Kings Landing is no way to ensure a long rule!

I am thinking Jon and Arya are on the same page... Dany needs to go. Poor Tyrion feels lower than a bowlegged caterpillar.

[hedgie]

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Like father like daughter, I guess.  All hail queen Trogdor

[cybersmurf]

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I wonder who gets Dany. Arya, in an actually epic way? Cersei, in a bitch fight to the death, which noone survives? Tyrion? Bronn maybe? Oh, yeah, I kinda like the Bronn idea. Lurking in the shadows, stabbing her unexpected.
Or maybe Jaime, saying "The Lannisters send their regards."

[JoeCovenant]

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I wonder who gets Dany. Arya, in an actually epic way? Cersei, in a bitch fight to the death, which noone survives? Tyrion? Bronn maybe? Oh, yeah, I kinda like the Bronn idea. Lurking in the shadows, stabbing her unexpected.
Or maybe Jaime, saying "The Lannisters send their regards."

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The Corruption of Danni has been obviously coming on since she had molten gold poured over her brother's head, and moreso since she demanded that Jon bent the knee - Nothing about this surprises me.

As for who *gets* her... I think it will be Jon. She's gone into full paranoid mode, and no-one else will be able to get close to her.
(Tyrion may be executed... hope not, but who knows. (see below))

And after Jon's killed her, he'll renounce the throne and start a new Night Watch (Maybe - dunno if they'll be needed now the Ice King Night King is dead... (Although, is he EVER really dead??) Sansa will then take the throne because Bran is away with the fairies... (maybe literally!)
Dunno about Arya though... I really hope she survives. But I can't see the series ending WITHOUT a Stark ruling the 7 Kingdoms.

(Maybe Sansa and Tyrion *will* get married - joining the two houses agian? And we'll have the unthinkable of not only a woman on the throne, but an "Imp" as her King.  (Oooo diversity!!!) There's certainly been foreshadowing that she's been treated like nothing but chattel by all the men in her life BAR him.)

[Cornelius]

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It's hardly a surprise, after the mess she left in Slaver's Bay.
Well, as to who gets the Queen of the Ashes, I think Bronn won't. Sure, he's lost a promise, but what will he gain by killing her? His first question is always how much, so...
I'm guessing it's going to be Arya or Jon.

[LeeC]

Wow...there is a lot of hate on the web for this episode. There are many who don't hate it but the hate is quite palpable and louder than the praise. I personally liked the episode. For a story about competing for the throne of westeros It needs to end and we're nearly there.

The hate is largely from:

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Danny burning down KL, Arya not killing Cersi, and how Jamie and Cersi die, and how Dany just got rid of the anti-dragon scorpions.

I think all are in line with the show and lore but there are those that just hate it along with this entire season.

[cybersmurf]

Wow...there is a lot of hate on the web for this episode. There are many who don't hate it but the hate is quite palpable and louder than the praise. I personally liked the episode. For a story about competing for the throne of westeros It needs to end and we're nearly there.

The hate is largely from:

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Danny burning down KL, Arya not killing Cersi, and how Jamie and Cersi die, and how Dany just got rid of the anti-dragon scorpions.

I think all are in line with the show and lore but there are those that just hate it along with this entire season.

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What I thought about ep3 applies here too: it feels a bit too cheap for what has been, and what they could've done. But this episode still feels mire consistent than ep3 though, a little less BSy.

[Pilchard123]

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A friend at work described this last season as like when you have an epic D&D campaign that you've been playing for years, but the DM is trying to finish the plot before they move to the other side of the country at the end of the month.

[jwhouk]

That observation means only one thing:

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The ending will be "Rocks fall, everyone dies."

(C'mon, this is GRR Martin we're talking about...)

[cybersmurf]

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[Torlek]

Wow...there is a lot of hate on the web for this episode. There are many who don't hate it but the hate is quite palpable and louder than the praise. I personally liked the episode. For a story about competing for the throne of westeros It needs to end and we're nearly there.

The hate is largely from:

(click to show/hide)

Danny burning down KL, Arya not killing Cersi, and how Jamie and Cersi die, and how Dany just got rid of the anti-dragon scorpions.

I think all are in line with the show and lore but there are those that just hate it along with this entire season.

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Dany going full Mad Queen makes narrative sense in view of her behavior in the past and they even hinted at it pretty heavily in the ep:

Varys: They say that when a Targaryen is born the gods flip a coin. I don't know which side her's has landed on yet.

Daenerys: Fear it is then.

That said, it didn't feel earned. It's too soon after her speeches on being nice to the commoners. They needed a slow episode to show her descent into paranoia and a "might makes right" mindset.

Arya was never going to kill Cersei, not after they made a point of showing her receiving the valonqar prophecy. I get that people want Arya to be the ultimate little badass, but it was always going to be Jamie. While how Jamie and Cersei went out isn't cathartic, it was more pathetic and fitting. People complaining about it need to remember that this series has never given a shit about our catharsis and always been about turning normal fantasy tropes on their heads.

But it does all go back to what I said about the sudden mention of the Golden Company last season, it's all too rushed and doesn't have any narrative weight. It's almost become a string of moments instead of a cohesive story. It's beginning to really bug me that these guys are going to make the next Star Wars movie after IX. If they're adapting material they do fine, if not they become hacks.

[BenRG]

My prediction for the last episode:

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Realising that Dany has gone irretrievably off the deep end, Jon uses the other dragon to hunt her down. After a spectacular air-to-air battle, both dragons are fatally injured. Dany is less hurt of the two riders and gives Jon a five- to ten-minute 'A God am I' monologue. She's so impressed with herself, she doesn't see him draw his knife literally until he stabs her through the bottom of her rib-cage. This could actually be filmed quite well with a close-up on Dany really getting into her rant, then pausing, looking down with some puzzlement and realising she has a knife in her heart.

With the last of the acknowledged Imperial family dead, Jon (much to his displeasure) learns that he is literally the last person standing in terms of candidates for the Iron Throne. He's literally the only man left who could be Emperor who doesn't have someone who hates him enough to want to continue this pointless war any longer.

So, Jon Snow is backed onto the Iron Throne (he never admits to his true bloodline as that would just cause complications). He is forcibly married to Arya or Sansa in order to keep the various surviving lords happy (no-one wants a foundling on the throne with no likelihood of his heirs having some noble blood). It is a loveless marriage but both Jon and his wife realise that it is something that must be done to stop Westeros being devastated and possibly depopulated by endless civil war.

And they all lived (those who lived) unhappily ever after.

The End.

P.S.: I hate and despise all these characters and all my loyal readers - Signed, George R R Martin

[cybersmurf]

My prediction for the last episode:

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Realising that Dany has gone irretrievably off the deep end, Jon uses the other dragon to hunt her down.

snipped the quoted spoiler section to the point I'm referring to.

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In case you missed it - Out of the three dragons, two are dead. One fell victim to the Night King and his subsequent demise, and the other one to Euron Greyjoy. As much as I'd love to see a proper aerial battle, this is not going to happen in the final episode.

One possibility I'd consider somewhat funny:

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Jon tells Dany she's lost her shit and he's sick of the crazy girlfriend paranoia, and Dany tries to burn Non, publicly. Only to show the world Jon's true heritage, and Tyrion backstabbing Dany.

[Cornelius]

One possibility I'd consider somewhat funny:

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Jon tells Dany she's lost her shit and he's sick of the crazy girlfriend paranoia, and Dany tries to burn Non, publicly. Only to show the world Jon's true heritage, and Tyrion backstabbing Dany.

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if you mean showing Jon's true heritage by him being unburnt; I'm not confident that it really works that way. If I'm not mistaken, we saw him getting a burn relatively early in the series. I think it's really only Daenerys that's fireproof, and even then only because of the blood magic by Mirri Maz Duur.

[dutchrvl]

One possibility I'd consider somewhat funny:

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Jon tells Dany she's lost her shit and he's sick of the crazy girlfriend paranoia, and Dany tries to burn Non, publicly. Only to show the world Jon's true heritage, and Tyrion backstabbing Dany.

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I'm not sure if that's how it works either, but maybe(?)
Another option I would find interesting is Dany trying to burn Jon, but Drogon refusing her command because of Jon's heritage (and possibly other motivations, who knows what dragons are motivated by really...).
This will lead to Dany realizing either that she has become a monster, or that she has now literally lost everything, including her last dragon. She may then just commit suicide or leave the lands.

[JoeCovenant]

My prediction for the last episode:

(click to show/hide)

Realising that Dany has gone irretrievably off the deep end, Jon uses the other dragon to hunt her down. After a spectacular air-to-air battle, both dragons are fatally injured. Dany is less hurt of the two riders and gives Jon a five- to ten-minute 'A God am I' monologue. She's so impressed with herself, she doesn't see him draw his knife literally until he stabs her through the bottom of her rib-cage. This could actually be filmed quite well with a close-up on Dany really getting into her rant, then pausing, looking down with some puzzlement and realising she has a knife in her heart.

With the last of the acknowledged Imperial family dead, Jon (much to his displeasure) learns that he is literally the last person standing in terms of candidates for the Iron Throne. He's literally the only man left who could be Emperor who doesn't have someone who hates him enough to want to continue this pointless war any longer.

So, Jon Snow is backed onto the Iron Throne (he never admits to his true bloodline as that would just cause complications). He is forcibly married to Arya or Sansa in order to keep the various surviving lords happy (no-one wants a foundling on the throne with no likelihood of his heirs having some noble blood). It is a loveless marriage but both Jon and his wife realise that it is something that must be done to stop Westeros being devastated and possibly depopulated by endless civil war.

And they all lived (those who lived) unhappily ever after.

The End.

P.S.: I hate and despise all these characters and all my loyal readers - Signed, George R R Martin

I mean no disrespect, Ben... but have you actually watched GOT?
Some of the things mentioned in your spoilers are impossible to occur for in show reasons.
And some have already happened.

[Cornelius]

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I'm not sure if that's how it works either, but maybe(?)
Another option I would find interesting is Dany trying to burn Jon, but Drogon refusing her command because of Jon's heritage (and possibly other motivations, who knows what dragons are motivated by really...).
This will lead to Dany realizing either that she has become a monster, or that she has now literally lost everything, including her last dragon. She may then just commit suicide or leave the lands.

Well, here's another way:

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Drogon refusing her command, just because of his heritage is not something I see happening easily. However, we've got Bran, who might still have a role to play. Since his role in defeating the Night's King was rather underwhelming, perhaps he will play a larger role in bringing down Dany. By warging Drogon, for instance. It would tie together with his revealing of Jon's heritage in the first place.

[JoeCovenant]

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I'm not sure if that's how it works either, but maybe(?)
Another option I would find interesting is Dany trying to burn Jon, but Drogon refusing her command because of Jon's heritage (and possibly other motivations, who knows what dragons are motivated by really...).
This will lead to Dany realizing either that she has become a monster, or that she has now literally lost everything, including her last dragon. She may then just commit suicide or leave the lands.

Well, here's another way:

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Drogon refusing her command, just because of his heritage is not something I see happening easily. However, we've got Bran, who might still have a role to play. Since his role in defeating the Night's King was rather underwhelming, perhaps he will play a larger role in bringing down Dany. By warging Drogon, for instance. It would tie together with his revealing of Jon's heritage in the first place.

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There's also the possibility that the dragon DOES Dracaris all over Jon's arse...
But he emerges from the flames naked and Dragonborn... which sends Danni into a rage, and she attacks him, and the DRAGON kills her!

(It would be a nice visual.. but personally, I'm sticking with my predictions! )

[Cornelius]

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Well, while I'm still not on board with Targaryen immunity to fire, there is the fact that he's been resurrected by Melisande. The Red God's resurrections seem to have caught some affinity with his element. It's possible, though I don't quite believe Jon will survive in his current form.

[cybersmurf]

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Well, while I'm still not on board with Targaryen immunity to fire, there is the fact that he's been resurrected by Melisande. The Red God's resurrections seem to have caught some affinity with his element. It's possible, though I don't quite believe Jon will survive in his current form.

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Under almost all conditions you're most likely right. Jon most likely is not immune to fire, but maybe "unnaturally resistant". The initial thought is nothing more than a fan theory of mine, and most likely false on so many levels.

[Cornelius]

Fan theories is what we do. It's much more fun than just waiting to see what happens.

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that being said, a moment's resistance, combined with Bran getting into Drogon's head, confusing him, if not taking control does have some potential.

[LeeC]

Well its all over. I know the internet is going to roast it because it wasn't what they expected or some other reason. I for one actually liked it.

[de_la_Nae]

Who knew the real Game of Thrones was the friends we made along the way

[BenRG]

Okay, I didn't see the episode by I've read a few post-game recaps so here's my thoughts:

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Above all else, George R R Martin's thesis is that the liberator is the one least qualified to lead the liberated. After fighting for so long and so brutally, violence and killing becomes the hammer of what starts looking like a world of nails; which is basically the way Daenyerys Targaryen was seeing the world. So, the only possible choice for one to lead the rebuilding is one who wasn't involved in the fight at all and thus can look at the problems in front of him or her without the bitter emotions of the war just ended.

As for the destruction of the Iron Throne? Drogon was wise, I believe, to realise that this cursed artefact was the ultimate cause of all of this and that, with the extinction of House Targaryen, it no longer had any purpose to outweigh its negative temptations.

Similarly, Martin also makes us look at heroes and asks if their path of violence and treachery is really 'heroic', even though what they did was for the greatest and highest of purposes, hence Jon's exile beyond the Wall and Arya's self-banishment to the West.

Finally, he suggests that, sometimes, things are just too broken to fix and you have to be willing to walk way (specifically Sansa and the newly-independent North)

[cybersmurf]

Okay, I didn't see the episode by I've read a few post-game recaps so here's my thoughts:

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As for the destruction of the Iron Throne? Drogon was wise, I believe, to realise that this cursed artefact was the ultimate cause of all of this and that, with the extinction of House Targaryen, it no longer had any purpose to outweigh its negative temptations.

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cue the "If Dany can't have the throne, noone shall!" fanbois.

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As far as storytelling goes, this episode is a contender for 'best of the season'. Not that that would be hard, considering some of their choices and the amount of episodes. Although they could have told it in less time, it wasn't bad.

[JoeCovenant]

Okay, I didn't see the episode by I've read a few post-game recaps so here's my thoughts:

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Above all else, George R R Martin's thesis is that the liberator is the one least qualified to lead the liberated. After fighting for so long and so brutally, violence and killing becomes the hammer of what starts looking like a world of nails; which is basically the way Daenyerys Targaryen was seeing the world. So, the only possible choice for one to lead the rebuilding is one who wasn't involved in the fight at all and thus can look at the problems in front of him or her without the bitter emotions of the war just ended.

As for the destruction of the Iron Throne? Drogon was wise, I believe, to realise that this cursed artefact was the ultimate cause of all of this and that, with the extinction of House Targaryen, it no longer had any purpose to outweigh its negative temptations.

Similarly, Martin also makes us look at heroes and asks if their path of violence and treachery is really 'heroic', even though what they did was for the greatest and highest of purposes, hence Jon's exile beyond the Wall and Arya's self-banishment to the West.

Finally, he suggests that, sometimes, things are just too broken to fix and you have to be willing to walk way (specifically Sansa and the newly-independent North)

But GRR Martin didn't write this.
ANd all the show runners had to work on where things he seemingly 'briefly discussed' at least 5 years ago.
His next book is still unfinished after 8 years... and there is still another to come after that (according to his own statements)

Personally, I doubt the books will end like the series.
(Or, may end similarly to the series... but with a far more satisfying qualified resolution)

[BenRG]

My opinion? After seeing the mixed response to seasons 7 and 8, G R R Martin may abandon writing the last books altogether. I understand that his fandom makes him more than a little uncomfortable and he may not be willing to invite this level of invective into his life any further.

[JoeCovenant]

All things being equal...

I think I can pretty much say "Called it!!" 
(Well... if you add bits together...   maybe 75% )

I can't honestly say I was *satisified* with the last season, I think they made a HUGE mistake condensing the last two series.
And the contradictions within some characters between those series stilted the ultimate conclusions.
For a series that often put spectacle before story telling, they sort of shot themselves in the foot with this one.

Series overall - 8/10
Last episode... a solid 5

[JoeCovenant]

My opinion? After seeing the mixed response to seasons 7 and 8, G R R Martin may abandon writing the last books altogether. I understand that his fandom makes him more than a little uncomfortable and he may not be willing to invite this level of invective into his life any further.

Iii dunno...
I would certainly find it hard to turn my back on something I'd already spent 8 years working on.
(Personally, it took me 5 years to get "The God of All Small Boys" published - but then, that was my first 'legitimately' published book, so maybe I had more impetus to continue working on it.)

To be frank, I probably wouldn't be surprised if he pulled out of the series... but then, I would imagine he'd be MIGHTILY sued by his publisher...
But on the whole, I think he's too invested in the characters to just stop.
I think his fans biggest fears are that he dies before he does.

[Cornelius]

Of course, the silent solution, if he's tired of it, and the publisher insists, is to hire a ghost writer to take what's there, and finish it. Not very attractive from an author's point of view, but it might pass without much notice with the fans.

Which might still happen posthumously, as well; it all depends on what rights the publisher has secured, really.

[cybersmurf]

Personally, I doubt the books will end like the series.
(Or, may end similarly to the series... but with a far more satisfying qualified resolution)

Isn't that confirmed? Like GRRM actually said the show took a different turn somewhere in season 3 and strayed from what he planned for the books?

[Cornelius]

The show did take a different direction. He did share the ending, and some of the key moments he had planned with the Showrunners, though, so it's not clear how far they are starting with this ending.

To come to this ending, there's a lot of development yet to take place in the books, though.

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Bolton did not marry the real Sansa, for instance, so she'd have to come back to the north some other way. Jon is still dead, but may be resurrected early in the next book.

It's quite possible that he comes to the same ending, if ever he finishes the books, but that it will be fleshed out, and less abrupt.

[TheEvilDog]

Okay, I freely admit that I never cared for the show or the books, but I had a quick look at the cliff notes and have a couple of questions.

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There's now a heartbroken and angry dragon flying around. Is no one worried about that? Seriously, I'd be worried about that!

And Dany conquered much of another continent, so what's going to happen when word gets back that she's dead? I mean, I would imagine that any thoughts of rebellion would have been kept in check by fear of reprisals from Dany and her dragons and given how she's dead along with two thirds of her dragons, how long before the old rulers try to retake what was theirs? Or is it a case that because its not the North or the Six Kingdoms, no one cares anymore?

[Cornelius]

Some part of the answer:

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Not long. Not long at all. She didn't even need to leave the continent: moving on to the next city was enough.

Bran was going to look for Drogon, so I suppose something will be done about that.

In all fairness, I've read the books, but have seen the show only irregularly.

[TheEvilDog]

Fair enough, so glad to have another reason to be glad that I never watched it. 

[LeeC]

[de_la_Nae]

https://twitter.com/FoldableHuman/status/1130581319593783296

[LeeC]

For those of you that want to know the rest of the joke:

[Ignominious]

[Tova]

Reminds me of another bit of satire.

Although written many years ago, Lady Chatterley's Lover has just been reissued by the Grove Press, and this pictorial account of the day-to-day life of an English gamekeeper is full of considerable interest to outdoor minded readers, as it contains many passages on pheasant-raising, the apprehending of poachers, ways to control vermin, and other chores and duties of the professional gamekeeper. Unfortunately, one is obliged to wade through many pages of extraneous material in order to discover and savour those sidelights on the management of a midland shooting estate, and in this reviewer's opinion the book cannot take the place of J. R. Miller's "Practical Gamekeeping."
      -- Ed Zern, "Field and Stream" (Nov.  1959)

[LeeC]