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[LordNagash]

So is zombie tussue stronger than living tissue? Dead bone becomes brittle, is that true for zombies as well?

[Jimmy the Squid]

All normal rules of decomposition apply to the walking dead. It is even accelerated somewhat because of open air and movement whereas a buried corpse would just be sitting there in a box.

[sean]

@ Melodic

And then you shall be laughed at as you run out of ammo from engaging the zombies in combat and have your brains eaten while the rest of us only use our firearms as a last-minute emergency plan and avoid zombie contact at all costs.

But the War hammer is a pretty bad idea. While it's a perfect weapon to fight zombies with, it's far to heavy to be carried around with you in the wild. An ax is still probably the best weapon to use against zombies.

[0bsessions]

That's actually one of the biggest points of contention amongst the various materials. Are zombies superhuman in their endurance, strength and durability due to whatever has infected them or are they literally just mobile corpses? It really depends on what you read, but it's a lot more disputed across various stories than stuff like a fear of fire.

An ax is still probably the best weapon to use against zombies.

Not really. An axe isn't meant as a weapon and is liable to get stuck more often than not. If you're talking a battle axe of some sort, well, then you're even worse off than with a war hammer. Those things tend to be huge.

I stand by my belief that the blunt end of a crowbar is about your best means of escaping zombies. It's not likely to put them down permanently, but it'll knock them down quick enough to get away. That's not to say you shouldn't be carrying a hatchet of some sort, though.

[LordNagash]

An axe designed for war is huge and heavy only in fantasy, or for ornate reasons. Historical war axes tend to be around 1.5-2 pounds. Bad for cutting wood, but great for killing.

So what does the Survival guide write about zombies durability? If that is the one we are going to focus on, best to see what it writes.

[sean]

@ Jon

With a good ax though, you could always hit zombies with the blunt end of the ax, and then decapitate them with the sharp end if you felt you had the chance.

Hooray for versatility!

[jhocking]

An axe designed for war is huge and heavy only in fantasy

Wait, so you mean Vallejo illustrations aren't real?

[dr.sangaygupta]

So what does the Survival guide write about zombies durability? If that is the one we are going to focus on, best to see what it writes.

Thier tissue and bone deteriorate at different rates per person. Some would lose almost all their skin tissue, or break bones with a realitivly slight impact, while others would retain the majority of soft tissue and be rather intact. Max Brooks kept this a constant in both novels.

[Melodic]

@ Melodic

And then you shall be laughed at as you run out of ammo from engaging the zombies in combat and have your brains eaten while the rest of us only use our firearms as a last-minute emergency plan and avoid zombie contact at all costs.

But the War hammer is a pretty bad idea. While it's a perfect weapon to fight zombies with, it's far to heavy to be carried around with you in the wild. An ax is still probably the best weapon to use against zombies.

I never meant to imply I'd be shooting every Tom, Dick, and Zombie I see, but if I needed to pull a movie-esque last-stand, I'd want an MP7 to do it with.

[LordNagash]

Wait, so you mean Vallejo illustrations aren't real?

Well the illustrations themselves are real, I suppose. Also, the axe does not look so bad to me http://www.kltr.info/images/eg-vallejo.jpg.

[Boro_Bandito]

Oh shit, there's a woman in that picture!

[dr.sangaygupta]

Well, I'm glad gender-confusion was never an issue with Bandito!

[Patrick]

...the axe does not look so bad to me

The axe?

[Alex C]

War axes are have really thin blades compared to a tool axe. Think meat cleaver. That said, I'd still take a hardware store axe over a wallhanger catalog version of well,  anything.

[Stryc9Fuego]

@ Kim: I'm sorry to say, but I will not be partaking in the man-smoothie you'd make anytime soon, as with my luck I'd get the smoothie consisting of over 39% your junk, and I do not want that in my mouth.

@ Whipstitch: I have to agree with you on this point. Always choose modern technology over artwork anyday.

[Boro_Bandito]

Wow I ruined that joke, I meant to say axe, there's an axe in that picture.  My one-track mind has failed me.

[Stryc9Fuego]

Wow I ruined that joke, I meant to say axe, there's an axe in that picture.  My one-track mind has failed me.

That's okay. We all saw the hot chick before the axe (cue obligatory impractical armor argument here). What I'd be more concerned with is someone sees that picture and is more aroused by the Pegasus rump in the background.

[KharBevNor]

War axes are have really thin blades compared to a tool axe. Think meat cleaver. That said, I'd still take a hardware store axe over a wallhanger catalog version of well,  anything.

Yeah. My battle axe weighs only a couple of pounds, and it's a rather heavy one. Some of them are incredibly light. War hammers aren't really much heavier. I can carry it round tucked in my belt and not really notice.

[Boro_Bandito]

Man, I want to start doing a reenactment group again, I'm old enough now to where I could participate as a knight rather than one of the squires..

[Patrick]

@ Kim: I'm sorry to say, but I will not be partaking in the man-smoothie you'd make anytime soon, as with my luck I'd get the smoothie consisting of over 39% your junk, and I do not want that in my mouth.

1. My junk is probably delicious, thanks very much.
2. It's all going to wind up getting shot through as exhaust anyway, and that shit gets to be well above 200ºC. I am going to be nice and cooked.
3. Come on, it's a giant freakin' blender. EVERYBODY'S getting an equal share of my dick.
4. That is pretty awesome now that I realize EVERYBODY WILL BE SUCKIN' ON MAH DICK

[Boro_Bandito]

actually, I have a feeling that sooner or later someone in North Korea's gonna get sick of being poor and hungry, overthrow Mr. Il, and have a good ol' barbecue. Who's to say they wouldn't prefer to blend their meat.

But now Patrick-smoothie, well that's another story, after this little discourse nobody will be slurpin' on a Patrick smoothie.

[SonofZ3]

Weapons have to be specially designed to stick in things, a good example being broadhead arrows.

Broadhead arrows are in no way designed to stick in things. They're designed to create a larger wound channel so the target bleeds out more quickly and suffers more internal damage. Hunters frequently shoot all the way through deer while hunting with broadheads, which is preferable to having your arrow stuck in the animal. An exist and entrance wound= twice the bleeding.
Anyone who thinks arrows would be good against zombies needs to understand what arrows are designed to do, which is basically stab something from beyond arms reach.

[Boro_Bandito]

If a broadhead arrow could go straight through a deer, I think it may have a chance of going through a zombie's head enough to sever the connections to kill it.

[Boro_Bandito]

I'm not for bows, remember? I'm the guy with a pistol, hatchet and aluminum baseball bat as primary weapons.

[Stryc9Fuego]

Broadhead arrow head; to aid discussion.

[Boro_Bandito]

You know, as long as we're not engaging directly with large forces and don't especially need a quick drawing ranged weapon, why not a crossbow? You wind it and fire it, and while its not as long range as a bow it doesn't need to be, and will still inflict quite a bit of damage. Or am I completely wrong?

[jhocking]

How about nunchucks? Or ninja stars? Maybe boomerangs?

[SonofZ3]

I think bows or crossbows would only be of much good if you could hit your target in the head. Since destroying a zombie's heart, lungs, ect doesn't do anything other than put a hole in them arrows would be more or less ineffective. If you can hit a head-sized target with a bow then kudos to you my friend. I cannot, and still think a shotgun would be the way to go, and I'm deffinately with you on the aluminum bat. I see where people are coming from with the axe thing being a good weapon, but I think if you gave most people of the street and axe and had them swing wildly they would end up  chopping their own foot or leg eventually, and a severe cut is not something I would want to deal with in zombacolypse land.

[jhocking]

Has anyone given any thought to a pesticide sprayer full of flesh eating acid? Or how about waterballoons filled with glue to immobilize them?

If you are to survive the zombocalypse at all you need to... be well trained with the weapons you're carrying.

I really think you guys are overestimating the importance of combat skills for this situation. I mean, these aren't ninjas, these are stupid clumsy zombies. Their combat skills are basically nothing, but they are dangerous because they are nearly impossible to stop and there are so freaking many of them.

As jon has pointed out repeatedly, surviving a zombie apocalypse has little to do with being deadly in battle, and everything to do with being smart.

[Boro_Bandito]

I disagree. The Aluminum bat is a lightweight weapon that can still be used to apply enough crushing force to knock a zombie down and out of the way. If you don't believe me then let me hit you with a baseball bat. Now, while it won't necessarily kill one with a single blow, that's NOT WHAT YOU'RE AIMING TO DO. Unless of course the zombie is by itself, then feel free to turn its head into mush while its on the ground from temporary loss of motor control from the first hit.

[jhocking]

I never said it was a bad thing. I was disputing your claim that one needs to be a well-trained warrior in order to survive.

[Nodaisho]

What do you do then? Go veggie?

Yeah I'm with Jon, if there's cross-species contamination, I am killing myself and looking like a badass motherfucker doing it. No flesh, no food, PERIOD.

Ring trick?

Melodic, no, the MP7 does not have rifle range or power. It has less than pistol capability for creating a wound channel, less than pistol force, less than rifle range (I think about magnum pistol range, 150-200 yards), and a lot of hype by people that have watched future weapons. I won't volunteer to stand still and get shot at by it, but same goes for BB guns, and I am not taking one of those as a weapon other than a club. It can pierce armor, sure, but you aren't worrying about body armor on a zombie, since you have to shoot it in the head anyway.

While I have a hammer, I would not take it over a baseball bat, it has less reach than a bat, the sledgehammer we have lying around has more, but it also weighs a lot more, I can make quicker strikes with a bat. Another aspect is that I know that bat like the back of my hand, I know precisely where the sweet spot will impact, while I don't know the reach of the hammer that well. The only advantage of the hammer is the ability to put it on your belt. Granted, that is good, since you don't have a bottomless inventory, but I would try to figure out a good way to carry the bat.

[Melodic]

Admittedly I was exaggerating when I said that a PDW has the same pros as a traditional assault rifle like the M16, but I stay by support of the MP7 as the perfect anti-zombie weapon. It has a range of about 200m, which is what I'd call maximum range for zombie-hunting, because engaging at anything longer than that against a target that is effectively the size of a baseball is a waste of ammunition (unless you bring out the big-caliber guns and decide to literally tear the undead apart from outwards of a mile). And, quite frankly, if slow, shambling corpse-eaters were over 200 meters away, I wouldn't give a damn trying to kill them anyways: they aren't my problem.

And while the 4.6mm round IS primarily an armor-piercing round, it carries twice the ballistic velocity of traditional pistols (more than three times that of the Colt 1911), and it seems like zombies don't really care how BIG the hole in their head is, as long as it's there. Even so, I'm fairly certain that if I was up against the undead and managed to find me an MP7, I'd find some spoon-tip rounds to blast big empties.

The best reason I can come up with for the MP7 being my weapon of choice is its size: I'd really hate to think that I'd be cornered by slow zombies in the middle of Times Square, or in an open field: if I'm getting jumped by the undead, it will be indoors and in close spaces. I can pump an awful lot of 4.6 into a zombie when he bursts out of a closet, but if I was carrying an M16, it would just get in the way.

[est]

Why are you guys talking about engaging zombies from a distance?  Why not just run?

In the event of a zombie holocaust my priorities would be:
- getting the fuck away from zombies
- trying to contact my loved ones to see if they are ok/need help
- getting the fuck away from zombies
- protecting myself from other, less benevolent survivors
- eking out a meagre existence as far away from any fucking zombies as I can manage

A short list of things not included:
- looking really cool
- trying to be a goddamn hero
- fucking about with weapons (other than using them to protect myself if necessary)
- killing lots of zombies to have fun/prove how badass I am

If (and only if) a group of my friends/relatives somehow miraculously survived and we re-settled some place remote and built some kind of fenced/gated/walled village and had to protect it then perhaps I would be interested in taking down approaching zombies from a distance.  Even then I would be far more interested in some kind of pit/moat or finding a more sustainable solution than projectile weaponry.  A corridor of large rotating knives, for example.

[est]

I didn't make myself clear.  I am not disparaging taking a pistol as a ranged weapon, I agree that having a pistol would be aces.  I don't have any access to one so I can't even begin to think about using one, but if I did then I would.  I am trying to say that talk of using bows and arrows or submachine guns against zombies far enough away that you could avoid them is crazytalk.

[Melodic]

I sincerely doubt any average joe could swing his way through, say, 10 zombies and not fuck up ONCE enough to get himself bit, and eventually you ARE going to have to face a pack o' undead.

Let's look at it this way: say I live in Manhattan, and I'm trying to escape. I get in my car and start driving the fuck away, but my path is blocked almost immediately by a dozen or so zombies on the road. I have a few options:

A) drive through them, possibly sustain damage to the car and worsen my chances of getting far enough away to take a piss in safety.
B) get out of the car, march up to them, and start swinging with a hammer/hatchet/nerdy LARP weapon, use my mastery of kung-fu to avoid being bitten, and smash/sever some skulls.
C) get out of the car, take out my submachine gun, and carefully pop off a dozen rounds.

C sounds pretty nice to me.

[jhocking]

You forgot option D: drive down a different street.

Really though, in that scenario you are going to be blocked off more by other people fleeing than you will be by zombies. Besides, your scenario requires that you have a submachine gun on you at all times and happen to have it when you are starting to flee from the zombies.

If however you don't already have a submachine gun, then I submit that you are better off fleeing without one than spending time scrounging around trying to get one.

[öde]

My weapons would be a katana, a revolver, and a trenchcoat.

[Boro_Bandito]

I still say that I could probably swing a bat faster than I could an axe or even a hatchet, and really there is no need ro a multiple purpose for it, its light enough to where its zombie clearing purposes are enough to make it useful. Its light enough to where I could carry the smaller multipurpose hatchet and still not feel the weight from either of them. And in the case with your four options, I'm going to drive through the fucking zombies, the car won't be any use to me anyway if I'm dead from getting out of it. And in a situation where there's a pack of zombies, I will exhaust every other possibility before I engage them, make no mistake. If it comes down to it I'll pick off the few with my pistol as I'm able and take the rest out if I can, because if I'm down to that I'm dead one way or another and fighting them enough to push through them is the only viable option. Say there are ten zombies in an alley. if the absolute only way out of it is through them, I'm going to go into a running tackling stance rather than a bat swinging one after I've emptied my clip into a few skulls, because it would do absolutely no good to try and fight through them, unless a couple were in front of the others. And if I did use my bat it would be to try and get by, I wouldn't try to engage them all, just try and force through a hole in their ranks. Now, admittedly a submachine gun at head level in that alleyway with the shots as controlled as possible would be a welcome addition, but you know what? Where the fuck in hell am I going to get an MP7? Its far more likely that I'll have a pistol.

[Melodic]

Has NOBODY seen Dawn of the Dead? Wherever you are, there is a gun store in close proximity to your location. Make sure to buy a certified zombie-proof map before making your daring escape!

[jhocking]

I think we should make a website. Sort of like how there are websites that use Google maps to show where the nearest movie theater is or whatever, we need a website where you can quickly find where the nearest gun store is, and also a few other resources that are useful in a zombie outbreak.

[0bsessions]

Joe hit my biggest gripe on the head. The vast majority of people do not have guns or access to guns. Even those who do, you've got a higher likelihood of being caught without said gun than with it, unless you're a cop, military officer or nutjob who carries it at all times.

If I really wanted, I live about two blocks away from a police station (Which is, in point of fact, directly on my route out of the city). For the sake of argument, I could, with the brightest strokes of luck, get access to a gun in a zombie outbreak. However, I would have to get from here to said police station unscathed, get into the police station and then find and gain access to the weapons room.

Sure, it's in the realm of possibility, but it's unsafe, unsure and taking up valuable time that would likely be better served outright escaping.

[est]

That is one of my biggest gripes re: this thread also.  There are things I have presently and there are things I could get with little to no difficulty in order to plan for such a thing.  A gun is probably not one of them.  Of any kind, especially not a fucking submachine gun or someshit like that.  I could probably get some kind of target/competition shooting gun for use at a range, but that would probably be very low calibre and next to useless against zombies 

It would be great for me to say "ok guys, I am putting together a go-bag in case of zombie infestation.  In it I have an AK-47, a few berettas, ammunition, a couple of ball-peen hammers, a baseball bat, some canned food and a can-opener, some empty bottles for water, etc etc etc" but I may as well add onto the end of that "and then I am going to fly away in my fucking Apache attack helicopter and live happily ever after" because it's just not realistic.  Hammers, baseball bats and crowbars I have/can get.  Pistols, rifles and tactical thermonuclear weaponry, not so much.

Hell, if I am being picky even riding off on a motorbike is a bit iffy at the moment seeing as I do not currently own one.  But at least I could at some point buy one in order for it to be included in my plans.  Sure, this is a theoretical fantasy thread, whatever.  But isn't the entire point of a modern-day zombie setting to make your plans feasible?  Else I'm just gonna start casting "turn undead" and smiting and shit.

[est]

Oh also I will take the domains "Good" and "Repose" thx.

[jhocking]

Else I'm just gonna start casting "turn undead" and smiting and shit.

Your reference to DnD is making me think very condescending (and very nerdy) thoughts about munchkins.

[BobJoeJim]

To everyone claiming that one downside of a baseball bat is that it is useless outside of combat, whereas an axe is a potentially valuable tool, I have just one question.  How the fuck are you supposed to play baseball without a bat?  If the zombie apocalypse leads to a world in which it is impossible to play baseball, I'm killing myself even faster than I would in a world where you can no longer eat meat.

Seriously, though, the reason I'm going with a baseball bat as my melee weapon of choice is that unlike any of the other proposed options, I have one in my bedroom.  Additionally I have spent my entire life learning to feel comfortable with a baseball bat in my hands, learning exactly what the reach of a baseball bat is, learning to swing a baseball bat accurately, etcetera.  I would not recommend a baseball bat as the optimal choice to Average Joe off the street, but for me I definitely think it's the best option I could go with (though of course I'll be doing my best not to ever have to use it).

[est]

See, I see a bat as a good weapon, or at least a good starter weapon.  You pick it up from your room, grab a few supplies and put them into a backpack & you're set.  You can walk/ride through the city/suburbia with it and the people who don't yet know there's a zombie outbreak will not panic/give you shit about it.  You can start evacuation before shit goes down and yet still have a weapon on-hand in case you run into an area where shit is going down.

Also, what about a decent mountain bike for transport?  We've been talking about a motorbike, but a mountain bike doesn't require fuel and is less complex to operate.

[0bsessions]

Actually, I mentioned that earlier. Aside from being less complex, it also has three distinct advantages:

1. Does not need refueling.
2. Can be easily lifted over obstacles if time is permitting.
3. Is about the easiest transport to find and commandeer. There are bicycles everywhere and if you absolutely have to abandon yours, you should be able to find a replacement if necessary.

[jhocking]

You can walk/ride through the city/suburbia with it and the people who don't yet know there's a zombie outbreak will not panic/give you shit about it.

On the one hand that is a great point and I hadn't considered that. On the other hand, I don't think there'd be much outcry over walking around with an axe either. At least not if I were carrying casually. I mean sure, people would freak out if I were walking around like I'm ready to hack someone's head off, but then they'd be just as freaked out by me walking around with a baseball bat in that same stance.

[sean]

Dude are you serious? If I walked around my neighborhood with an ax, people would probably be like "Holy shit what the fuck you have an ax get the fuck away from me."

But I think that point is irrelevant. I highly doubt there is gonna be much downtime between the start of the zombie apocalypse and worldwide infestation. And even if there is, you'd probably hear about it when it's to late to worry about walking down the neighborhood with an ax.