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Author Topic: Metal anybody?  (Read 101269 times)

LadyFirelyght

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #300 on: 26 Feb 2008, 04:05 »

I haven't heard of most of these bands that have been posted, probably because most of them are in a type of metal that I don't listen to. I prefer more melodic stuff. Not big (read: generally hate) on death/black and prefer bands like Kamelot, Nightwish, Epica, Within Temptation (though they've become a lot more commercialized over the years, unfortunately), After Forever, Sonata Arctica, Dragonforce, and we can't forget Rhapsody of Fire. Kamelot is, hands down, my favorite band ever. If I could make love to Roy Khan's voice, I would.
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Lummer

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #301 on: 26 Feb 2008, 12:39 »

I haven't heard of most of these bands that have been posted, probably because most of them are in a type of metal that I don't listen to. I prefer more melodic stuff. Not big (read: generally hate) on death/black and prefer bands like Kamelot, Nightwish, Epica, Within Temptation (though they've become a lot more commercialized over the years, unfortunately), After Forever, Sonata Arctica, Dragonforce, and we can't forget Rhapsody of Fire. Kamelot is, hands down, my favorite band ever. If I could make love to Roy Khan's voice, I would.

Must.... Not.... Insult.... Must.... Resist.... urge to be elitist asshole :cry:

Anyways, on the topic of "heavy", I usually distinguish between "heavy" and "Brutal".
Two examples for y'all:

Electric Wizard is heavy. Reeeaaally fucking heavy. Really slow, fuzzed out and with some seriously downtuned guitars as well.
De-tuned guitars is by no means a necessity for heaviness, as Black Sabbath proved pretty darned early on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77uVmkb6oes&feature=related
I love this shit, seriously...


Nile is brutal.
They pummel the shit out of you with 220+ bpm blast beats, insanely technical guitar-work and deep, guttural growl vocals.
There is some heaviness to be found, but the naked agression and speed tend to be dominant factors. They tune their guitars down to Drop A (which is very low), but detuning is still not necessary to make brutal Death Metal, as Pestilence, Atheist and Obituary proved early on as well.
Nasum only tune to drop D as well, and they are indeed quite brutal.
An Example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNQpLFns-CA
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Spluff

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #302 on: 26 Feb 2008, 12:59 »

Yep, Electric Wizard are fucking heavy. Doom is pretty much the epitome of heavy - look at Candlemass, My Dying Bridge, Cathedral. Slow, low, and dissonant.
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bbqrocks

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #303 on: 26 Feb 2008, 13:04 »

And that's still not touching upon the most extreme doom regions- Funeral, drone, etc.

I think I may make some kind of 'mind map' of metal, based on some kind of axis...

One side of the axis (X) will be extremeness, but I have no idea what to put for the other one.


On the subject of doom, can someone see whether they can find me a band that fits this? A blackened funeral doom band with tempos between 40bpm and 5bpm (imagine a combination of latest earth and incredibly slowed down ahab/nortt/funeral mourning), and a heavy stoner touch (imagine an incredibly slowed down, even more downtuned and heavy electric wizard).
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Nebetsu

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #304 on: 26 Feb 2008, 13:21 »

I like the folk metal bands like Ensiferum, Finntroll, and such. I also like a lot of the prog/power metal bands like Symphony X and Sonata Arctica. :P
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bbqrocks

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #305 on: 26 Feb 2008, 13:43 »

Ensiferum and Finntroll are great. What about...Otyg?

Quote
brutal Death Metal, as Pestilence, Atheist and Obituary

One outa three aint bad right
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onewheelwizzard

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #306 on: 26 Feb 2008, 13:48 »

bbqrocks, I think I might've found something that fits your criteria.  A while ago I found a half-hour song called Stormbringer by a band called Roanoke ... turns out it's track one of three on their album/demo (I don't have the other two songs but they're on the MySpace).

Give it a shot.

Code: [Select]
http://www.mediafire.com/?2yd0lzlm0xc
Also, I don't know if the 5ive I uploaded to the Mediafire thread is still active ... it's something like 10 or 12 pages back right now, probably.  If you can find it (the album is called "Telestic Disfracture") that might also be your kind of thing.
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Lummer

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #307 on: 26 Feb 2008, 13:51 »

Quote
brutal Death Metal, as Pestilence, Atheist and Obituary

One outa three aint bad right

And that one might be?

(I'm guessing obituary here, but to me brutality is just as much derived from the "Chaotic" technicality as well as pure thrashin'.)
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bbqrocks

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #308 on: 26 Feb 2008, 14:04 »

@Onewheelwizzard: Thanks for that. I did check out 5ive, but I was honestly so tired at the time I can't remember what the hell it went like. I will give it another listen.

@Lummer: Yeah, obituary. That is, obituary are the only 'brutal death metal' band in that sentence, but all of the bands are 'death metal that is brutal'.

Would anyone recommend checking out atavist?
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Lummer

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #309 on: 26 Feb 2008, 14:33 »

Yes, but really you can't compare Obituary to for instance Atheist, stylistically. I just needed some quick examples of death metal-ish band who make brutal riffs without tuning down :p

I like Atheist infinitely better, though.
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bbqrocks

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #310 on: 26 Feb 2008, 14:43 »

Yeah, exactly.

Dammit, bunkur and heirophant DLs failed.
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Nodaisho

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #311 on: 26 Feb 2008, 16:33 »

Yep, Electric Wizard are fucking heavy. Doom is pretty much the epitome of heavy - look at Candlemass, My Dying Bridge, Cathedral. Slow, low, and dissonant.
I have heard of and listen to MDB and Candlemass, but haven't heard of cathedral. Time to look them up, I guess.

I honestly like the Candlemass self-titled best of what I have heard, I don't like Epicus' vocals, and the somewhat fast solos on Nightfall seem out of place.
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LadyFirelyght

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #312 on: 26 Feb 2008, 17:25 »

Must.... Not.... Insult.... Must.... Resist.... urge to be elitist asshole :cry:
Well, everyone likes different music so even if you were being an elitist asshole I wouldn't care. I'm a bit of a acrimonious bitch on occasion :D I love to sing, love to sing along to music, so melody is very important for me. Hence the bands I listen to :) So go ahead with what you want to say.
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bucky_2300

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #313 on: 26 Feb 2008, 22:00 »

I'm a melody slut. I dig stuff like In Flames and Children of Bodom, but Nile and Necrophagist do nothing for me. The riffs are extremely technical, but the tone is so muddy and the mixing so deep that it's impossible to fully appreciate (i.e. HEAR) the notes going by. One can get a general sense of what is going on, but detailed listening is impossible for the first time through.

Most of my metal/rockish listening lies along the 80s lines. I fell in love with Uli Jon Roth, Yngwie Malmsteen and Paul Gilbert a few years ago, and haven't really looked back. The playing is fantastic, and the writing is just phenomenal. The harmonies on Malmsteen's Rising Force just seem right to me, and the way Gilbert flies through his solos with such control is amazing.

I'm also in love with Dream Theater, Megadeth, Randy/Jake-era Ozzy, Iron Maiden, some Priest, Steve Vai, and Queen. The prog-metal DT stuff blew me away when I first heard it, and I've gone on to amass every record of theirs (including live albums and DVDs) since Scenes From a Memory in 1999. I'm now working my way backwards. The Megadeth shit I love because it's brutally heavy, very melodic, and has a great feel to it. It's the metalhead's metal. Ozzy and Maiden are self-explanatory, and the other stuff is just what I groove on.

I also listen to random thrash like Anthrax (early-mid 80s only), Slayer, Testament, Exodus, yada yada. But lately I've been dipping heavily into progressive and jazz.
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MadassAlex

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #314 on: 26 Feb 2008, 22:08 »

As I suggested above, I personally think that heaviness has less to do with the pitch of the music and more to do with the phrasing and technique that goes into it.

That's why bands Iron Maiden and Amon Amarth can, at once, be considered melodic and heavy. Bands like Iron Maiden and Angra can write songs in the key of D without downtuning and still be heavy as fuck because it's all about phrasing. Hell, Megadeth wrote a song in B without downtuning (Tornado Of Souls) and it's probably one of their heaviest songs.

So yeah, I personally don't think pitch comes into it.
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bucky_2300

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #315 on: 26 Feb 2008, 22:14 »

Anyone who says that War Pigs isn't heavy is being stupid, yet that isn't downtuned horribly.

So yes, downtuning /=/ heavy.
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Spluff

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #316 on: 26 Feb 2008, 22:28 »

Honestly, in my opinion Megadeth and Iron Maiden etc. will never be heavy. They're metal, no doubt, but not particularly heavy.

Also, Black Sabbath have always downtuned, to D at the least - when they hit Master Of Reality it got dropped down another step to C#.
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turtlspinr

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #317 on: 26 Feb 2008, 23:22 »




Nile is brutal.
They pummel the shit out of you with 220+ bpm blast beats, insanely technical guitar-work and deep, guttural growl vocals.



good, but they will never match the heaviness on Amongst The Catacombs Of Nephren-ka. By far their best work.
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MadassAlex

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #318 on: 26 Feb 2008, 23:53 »

Honestly, in my opinion Megadeth and Iron Maiden etc. will never be heavy. They're metal, no doubt, but not particularly heavy.

Go to them in concert or listen to them on a really kickass sound system.

I saw Iron Maiden in concert and they were goddamn heavy. Not just like, intense and noisy, but heavy. Being there really does make a difference.

Going on my point about metal being about phrasing, I think you'll find the heaviest bands all use large interval distances in their riffs. Necrophagist comes to mind. They use bassy, palm-muted riffage dispersed by treble licks or notes every couple of bars, and it's right heavy.

In any case, Megadeth/Iron Maiden ect. may not seem that heavy anymore, but remember that Iron Maiden was one of the primary influences not only on thrash metal, but death metal as well. In fact, you'll find that Death's music lacks "heaviness" in the sense of pitch in comparison to their DM contemporaries in the 90s (when techdeath, brutal death and slam started to gain favour in the underground) but the music is just so well phrased that they never needed to tune down below D standard.
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Spluff

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #319 on: 27 Feb 2008, 01:09 »

I'm still going to have to disagree with you on the Megadeth/Maiden thing - the riffs just aren't particularly heavy riffs in my opinion.

But moving on, I definately agree that the phrasing are a big part too. The whole bass / treble switchover a la Necrophagist (A perfect example would be the Raining Blood opening riff, before shit gets crazy) can have a pretty cool feel.

But I think probably the chosen notes/intervals are just as big a contributor - if you leave a riff hanging on a dissonant note you can imbue some seriously heavy tension into the song. Tritone, Minor Sixth, Minor Second, etc. add a very evil feel that can make even standard or D tuning sound very heavy. Solitude by Candlemass uses standard tuning (if I remember right. It's either that or D) and it's heavy as fuck because of the whole hang the riff on a dissonant note idea.

I was also going to write something about Meshuggah being heavy here, but I'm not entirely sure how I can rationalize it without just screaming 'dissonance' at 'yall for a while.
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MadassAlex

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #320 on: 27 Feb 2008, 01:25 »

Also dude I can kind of understand Iron Maiden not seeming heavy but MEGADETH DUDE.

We ARE talking about the Holy Wars/Peace Sells/Hangar 18/Killing Is My Business Megadeth, right?
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Spluff

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #321 on: 27 Feb 2008, 02:00 »

Okay, yeah, Holy Wars was kinda heavy. But I think aggressive, fast, balls to the wall metal when I think of Megadeth, not crushingly heavy or anything like that. They had metal coming out their ass, but I still don't think they were that heavy.

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Nodaisho

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #322 on: 27 Feb 2008, 02:17 »

They had metal coming out their ass
That sounds painful, and at the same time, like something in a music video Khar would link.

I don't really think of Megadeth as heavy, I think of heavy as slower, usually.
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Lummer

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #323 on: 27 Feb 2008, 02:54 »

Honestly, in my opinion Megadeth and Iron Maiden etc. will never be heavy. They're metal, no doubt, but not particularly heavy.

Also, Black Sabbath have always downtuned, to D at the least - when they hit Master Of Reality it got dropped down another step to C#.

The first couple of albums were at least played in the key of E. I am certain the guitars were tuned standard, as well.
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Spluff

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #324 on: 27 Feb 2008, 20:48 »

According to wikipedia it was tuned to D, but hey, it's wikipedia so you could be right.
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MadassAlex

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #325 on: 27 Feb 2008, 21:48 »

I know for a fact that they used to tune to E, because I tune to E and can play along with many of their songs free of dissonance.

Not that it's highly relevant. Even when Sabbath tuned below E, they scarcely used any of the notes underneath the low E. In fact, I think Tony tuned down more for the tone and handling of the instrument than the actual pitch.
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sean

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #326 on: 27 Feb 2008, 21:54 »

Yeah Tony downtuned because he lost two of his fingertips in an accident and needed looser string tension.
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