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[imapiratearg]

(Move this thread if it belongs somewhere else, please.)

I would like a new mp3 player for Christmas, since my old one broke.  Mostly what I want is something that is at least 30GB in storage, is rugged, and is easy to use.  My first choice right now is Microsoft's Zune, but I know no one who has one, and I have only read a Yahoo! article on them, and the customer reviews on BestBuy.com.  Does anyone have any suggestions?

Oh, and I DON'T want an iPod.  I fucking hate them.

[Spinless]

if you hate iPods, why would you want a Zune?

[Spinless]

Tommy, I disagree, they're trendy as hell and every motherfucker on the planet has one. Y'know who else was a motherfucker? Hitler. I bet Hitler would own an iPod.
Plus I HATE iTunes because it is the opposite of user friendly, and it sometimes ask for updates.

You should tell me what a compelling argument FOR the iPod is, then I'll consider it!

[TheFuriousWombat]

If you hate ipods for the annoying "apple/ipods" suck reason that most people have (which are 95% of the time without any basis or experience at all) you really aught to reconsider. I've owned a variety of MP3 players from a variety of companies and the iPods I've owned have been the most organized, most reliable and most streamlined of them all. If you've had bad experiences with iPods that's one thing but if you hate them for no reason, stop being so snobby and try 'em out.
Also, since when did something being "trendy" detract from its quality. No offense, but that's the stupidest fucking reason for not wanting something. It's popular b/c it's a good device. I've also found iTunes to be quite user friendly. You can look at updates whenever you want, you can disable the "asks for updates" feature very easily, you can arrange music pretty much any way you want and it gives you lots of options for burning/ripping CDs.

[Spinless]

There are valid reasons for not getting an iPod, such as disliking iTunes. And wanting the support of lossless media files. And...uhm...
Wanting buttons that click?

[Starless]

Get Creative Zen Vision: M.  I have one and I love it to death.  Better than Zune and Ipod.

[valley_parade]

every motherfucker on the planet has one.

That's cos they work REALLY FUCKING WELL.

[imapiratearg]

The main reason I won't get an iPod is: I refuse to put iTunes on my computer.  Everyone I know who uses it on a PC, their computer has crashed or runs like shit.

I was considering an Creative Zen Vision M, but my friend had one, dropped it, and broke it.  He also told me that it does not play songs in the order of the album they are on, but in alphabetical order instead.

[tommydski]

Don't use iTunes then. So many alternatives now. 90% of them free.

Get an iPod.

[öde]

You can't have an mp3 player.

[Wayfaring Stranger]

Yeah, seriously, if you want 30g and up, iPod is probably your best choice.  The new Zunes are pretty sweet, but you're really going to have the best luck finding media and accessories for an iPod.  They're small, relatively reliable, and so streamlined that you'll probably never have a problem with it unless physical damage occurs.  If you want small flash memory players, I have a Sony Walkman and it's awesome.  But for big storage, I have to recommend the iPod.

[Liz]

Also, go for refurbished iPods (they come with the same warranty as new ones) and save a crapload of money. Right now, because of the new models that just came out, last gen 30GB ones are $135 off the Apple website. I am currently digging through my things to try find stuff to sell in order to get some money for one.

[Scandanavian War Machine]

Tommy, I disagree, they're trendy as hell and every motherfucker on the planet has one.

that's not a good reason to dislike anything. espescially not something useful. that's like saying "i'm sick of having eyeballs; everyone i know has at least two! i think i'll gouge them out."

it makes you sound like an idiot.

[tommydski]

That's his point. He was being sarcastic.

[Scandanavian War Machine]

whew! i was gonna say....that seemed pretty out of character.

i hear people use that argument all the time. i'm glad other people think it's moronic too.

[qiZzer]

The reason why i hate the zune is that it runs highly restrictive drm that fucks every thing up, and don't get me started on microsofts software issues. When i had a pc it ask for update once a week so i doubt th zune will be any better.

[StaedlerMars]

Creative Zen is supposed to be a really good alternative.

Reason I don't like iPods - The one I have broke every other month, and continued doing so every time I sent it back for repairs. Then the warranty expired.  Also the way they organize their music is annoying (mysteriously labeled files in mysteriously labeled folders), and the fact that it's only one way uploading with the supported software bugs me even more.

Supposedly the new iPods don't break quite as often, but I was so put off by my experience that I haven't bought a new one.

I would buy the iPhone if I had enough money. That's just the coolest thing ever.

[Scandanavian War Machine]

yeah, i know what you mean. everyone i know who owned an iPod had it break within a year or so.

however, i had a 5th generation video (30gig) and it lasted me two or three years without any problem whatsoever (until two days ago when it finally gave in and died). so i have no personal problems with iPods but i know lots of people who do.

[TheFuriousWombat]

I've owned three iPods in my time, all of which lasted a couple of years. I got new ones for more space and sold the old ones so I didn't replace them due to any technical issues of any kind. In fact, I've never had any serious technical problems of any kind with the iPods I've owned. Furthermore, you can organize the music in files just like you can organize other files i.e. pretty much any way you want. Just go into the file that has all your itunes music and rearrange the music to your liking. It's really simple.

[imagist42]

If you're really still iffy about iPods, go with a Creative. The Vision:M is a great player, and it sounds like your friend just had uncharacteristic problems with his. I would strongly recommend the new ZEN (just got mine and it's absolutely lovely), but it only goes up to 16GB with and SD slot that I believe takes 8GB cards, so not quite the capacity you're looking for.

As far as legitimate reasons not to like iPods, they're very restricted. Even though you don't have to use iTunes, they're not exactly optimized for other programs and I've seen them go screwy necessitating a complete reformat more than enough times. Eventually people may have to give up and cave to the iTunes overlords, and really, iTunes is a crappy program, especially on a PC. Additionally, there's no extensive file format support. Back when I got my iAudio X5L, I had several GB of music in things ranging from wma to FLAC to bloody ogg vorbis, so an iPod would have been completely out of the question. Since then I've done away with the stuff I had in FLAC/ogg vorbis, but I'd still have to convert more wmas than I'd like if I ever went with a player as limited in functionality as an iPod. Speaking of functionality, where is the iPod's FM radio? Voice recording? These are things I've loved dearly on every HDD player I've ever owned and I'm not about to give them up.

[Spinless]

I have to say, if you have problems with iTunes on a mac, that's probably your own fault. If you're having problems with it on a PC...it's probably you're own fault.
If your PC crashes, then it's not the fault of iTunes. Your PC is just crap. I can't run iTunes on m PC very efficiently, but it's over 7 years old. Even without iTunes on it, the PC is slow and crap.
My friend, has a nice PC. Not very powerful, but he has a lot of space and keeps it clean. He runs graphic intensive software, over 20 firefox tabs, torrents, soulseek, several IM clients AND iTunes. At the same time. With multiple users. He crashes maybe once a week, when he opens more youtube tabs and firefox stops responding.

There was also that period he kept trying to use AIM...
It turned out that AIM kept installing viruses with it's installation package.
That happened a few times when I had that Sony mp3 player...
THAT fucked up my other computer (the newer one)
And after about 2 weeks of trying to get my Zen V to work with PC and getting countless errors which stopped the player from working, I just gave up on the PC altogether.
iTunes is just about the only program that hasn't fucked that PC up.
It ask to update every few weeks, but that's to stop it from fucking up, right?

[StaedlerMars]

Just go into the file that has all your itunes music and rearrange the music to your liking. It's really simple.

Not the files on your computer, the files on the iPod. Last time I checked (I admit, it was a while ago) the folders were all labeled (seemingly) random things, with the song files in the folders labeled equally mysterious things.

And yeah, I was one of the few who had constant problems with the iPod, no one else I know had quite as much trouble with it.

[TheFuriousWombat]

I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. The ipod interface simply replicates whatever is on your computer. If you have everything tagged correctly on the computer, the organization on the ipod itself should be pretty much perfect. I know it has been on all of my iPods anyway.

[StaedlerMars]

Oh, right, what I meant was when you plug your iPod in, and then open it up manually (as in on the computer, without iTunes, not to physically open it up), then have a look at the way that the music is organized internally. I guess it's to prevent people from just plugging in their iPod in someone elses computer and just copy and dragging all the files across.

It's not a big deal, there's software to work around it, but with other mp3 players you can just click and drag whatever files into the necessary spot on the actual player, and it just works. You don't even need another media player. With the iPod you do.

[aeramil]

Another vote for creative zen vision: m

Love mine

[Spinless]

For every 1000 iPods sold, maybe 100 will break. Sometimes, the fault of the user.
For every 1000 creative zens sold, I reckon about 700 of these won't work straight out of the box.

[est]

iPods are quite nice, but lately I've found I get better sound out of my Walkman phone simply due to it having the Sony "Megabass" bass boost feature.  If anyone knows of a way to replicate this on the previous gen iPod nano (which I have and am extremely unhappy with the tinny sound quality of) then I will be able to save myself some money in about a month. 

I have used the same decent pair of in-ear Sennheiser earbuds with both players and the Walkman phone still sounds better.  I've also listened to my friend's current-gen iPod nano and it sounds the same (ie: tinny).  I will be upgrading my phone to a pda phone reasonably soon (once my current contract runs out) and that'll have shithouse sound, so I'm looking to either make my current nano sound better or get a new Walkman/something else with decent bass response.

[Jimmy the Squid]

You can always mess with the equalizer settings on the iPod to get better or at least different quality sound but I'm not sure what you want from it. I've got a Nano (not sure what gen.) and I'm pretty happy with it. I had a first gen Mini and that crapped out on me right after the warranty expired. It was just the battery so I'm open to the option of fixing it but I'm not very technically minded and might fuck it up. At anyrate I love the Nano I have which I bought off a co-worker, I've never had any problems with iTunes running on my PC which all in all is not an amazing machine and I really only manage the music from inside iTunes itself. I don't use any unusual file formats (just Mp3, Mp4, WMA and of course AAC). It's a pretty simple device to use. I'm going to try to put some photos on it tonight.

Oh and Est, you might want to look into the Sony Ericcsson w960i. 8Gb internal upgradable memory (i think) with the same walkman features that you'd be used to plus Gracenote music database stuff. Not sure if it's out here yet and it isn't very PDA-y but it might be up your alley if you want a Walkman phone with a fair bit of memory.

[Spinless]

first gen nano=tall, skinny, shiny, plastic
second gen nano=Tall, skinny, shiny, aluminium
third gen=wideboy.

[tomselleck69]

a friend of mine has one of these and apparently it is great.

personally, i love my ipod. it has been nothing but excellent to me for as long as i have had it.

[Kai]

For every 1000 iPods sold, maybe 100 will break. Sometimes, the fault of the user.
For every 1000 creative zens sold, I reckon about 700 of these won't work straight out of the box.

The Creative firmware is the highest degree of suck. Check their support forums; there's probably about 40 or 50 pages of people (including myself, at one point) saying that updating the firmware completely killed their player. Of course, the faulty firmware update is still up there and they refuse to do anything about it unless you want to pay some $200 dollars to have it repaired.

Honestly, just get an ipod and be done with it. Zune has that whole weird DRM business, Creative's software and support is awful, and I'm way too lazy to read up on other models.

Or you could just use a walkman like me and put all your music on tapes

[r2knee2]

i actually have a Zune (insert gasp here).  I don't have one of the fancy new ones, but I like it anyways, especially since they did a software update and now my older generation Zune runs quite similarly to the newer ones. 

Now, for my mp3 player owning history.  I used to own an iPod, but it no longer lives due to my own clumsiness; I dropped it, it landed on a corner and the screen cracked.  That being said, I have also dropped my Zune and it has not cracked.  So if you're clumsy, I'd say go with a Zune.  Also, I like the Zune interface better than iTunes.  Also, forgive me, all you iPod owners out there, but I can't stand scrolling around in a circle forever to get to my music.  There's also the iPod touch, but I've heard a lot of problems about it, including online reviews and from people I know who own them.

In summary, I've owned both an iPod and a Zune, and I much prefer the Zune.

[Spinless]

Anybody see that experiment where to break a first gen iPod nano, they had to toss it 30 feet into the air and run over it in a car several times before it broke?

[KharBevNor]

I just bought an Archos 605.

This thing is insane. It's better than any other mp3 player you have ever imagined. It's got a web browser, an e-book reader, it can hook up to a television and play media files from your computer over wifi, and I think there's an optional firmware upgrade that allows it to fuck your mothers.

So good.

[Tehz]

If you really don't want an iPod, than definitely get a Zune. I played around with my friend's Zune for a while, and I really liked it.

[Jimmy the Squid]

first gen nano=tall, skinny, shiny, plastic
second gen nano=Tall, skinny, shiny, aluminium
third gen=wideboy.

Ok it's second gen then. It's also greem. GREEM MOTHERFUCKER!

[jimbunny]

Anyone have an opinion on the iRiver?

[Tom]

i too have been wondering about that.
www.iriver.com

[Spinless]

a friend of mine has one of these and apparently it is great.

personally, i love my ipod. it has been nothing but excellent to me for as long as i have had it.

[mediumrare]

For every 1000 iPods sold, maybe 100 will break. Sometimes, the fault of the user.
For every 1000 creative zens sold, I reckon about 700 of these won't work straight out of the box.

Wait, what the hell? Why are you just pulling figures out of your ass?

[Unosuke]

They've quit making the Zen Vision M, its being replaced with the Zen, which will soon have 32gb of flash storage and a slot for an SD card. That's my 2 cents.

[Spinless]

Wait, what the hell? Why are you just pulling figures out of your ass?

What on earth makes you think that? I bet you were one of the 5000 people who bought a creative product that worked.

[mediumrare]

What on earth makes me assume that you don't have access to any kind of statistics re: the number of units sold against the number of units faulty upon purchase, for both products?

Do you really need me to answer that?

No, I am completely impartial to the supposed battle between ipod and zen. I am, however, easily annoyed by mind-boggling debate techniques, and the chip on the average (internet using) Apple user's shoulder.

Though I must add that Zens have better sound

[Spinless]

We're cool. It's not a very well known fact that squillions of people but faulty Zunes either, and that every one of those people takes my posts too seriously.

[est]

Oh and Est, you might want to look into the Sony Ericcsson w960i. 8Gb internal upgradable memory (i think) with the same walkman features that you'd be used to plus Gracenote music database stuff. Not sure if it's out here yet and it isn't very PDA-y but it might be up your alley if you want a Walkman phone with a fair bit of memory.

I already have it in mind, but it's coming out at the end of January and Vodafone probably won't even have it on offer until the middle of next year.  That situation is not cool.

[notnamed]

I was considering an Creative Zen Vision M, but my friend had one, dropped it, and broke it.  He also told me that it does not play songs in the order of the album they are on, but in alphabetical order instead.

Since this was never addressed, I'ma going to address it. No this isn't the way a Z:VM works. It can work in two modes, based on the ID3 tags, or based on the physical folders on the hard drive. Either way, it'll play 'em in whatever the hell order you want.

I have and love my 30GB Z:VM. I dropped it, it broke, I spent $25 (the "return fee") +shipping and sent it back and they fixed it. Haven't applied the new firmware update because any time I apply any firmware update to anything (routers, MP3 players, etc - except my old 1stgen iPod nano actually) it's broken it terribly.

[Lee]

I have an old iRiver h120. I've had it 4 or so years now. Plays pretty much everything I throw at it. Not sure about there newer stuff, 'cos I haven't tried it but you can pick my model up on ebay pretty cheap last time I looked.

It's annoying 'cos no-one seems to be making any more big hard drive players apart from ipods (can't and wont buy 'cos I have music in too many formats for the poor thing), I wanted a creative vision : m but they've been discontinued - will have to keep an eye out for them on ebay or something.

[Blank_Jebus]

if you reall are against the ipod the i would go with the zune...i know a couple of people who have then and they love it soo much....they recently updated the zune interface and it looks sleek and sexy...i'd say that if you wanted to get an mp3 player that isn't an ipod and holds the same ammount of storage then go with the zune...and from what i hear they are durable

[Statik]

Your arguments against the iPod fall short, horribly
I agree, I dont particularly like iTunes, HOWEVER, your argument against it is terrible. 
One: You can disable the auto updates (despite the fact that I have never had a problem with them)

Two: Anyone who had a problem with iTunes doing something strange to their computer PROBABLY had some other shit in the background (ie: spyware) that conflicted, nothing to do with iTunes

Three: While I long for the functionality of simply having a LIST of artists, of which WMP had before, iTunes is NOT a terrible piece of software

Four: iPods have more accessories than any other portable MP3 player that exists.  (Including a case for the very nice 80gig iPod Classic that looks like you strapped a tire around the thing)

Five: "Trendy"  SO WHAT?  Yes, everyone has them, why does everyone has them?  Because everyone has found that they have the proper amount of functionality for BEING A MP3 PLAYER, and they are surprisingly durable

My ONE AND ONLY SEMI-LEGIT KIND OF NITPICKY COMPLAINT ABOUT iPods:  Polished Stainless steel picks up fingerprints like a motherfucker.
And that whole no artist list in iTunes

I worked retail for six+ years.  I have seen every single brand imaginable of MP3 player.  For a cheap 1gig - ish one, the Sandisk ones are decent(they arent especially durable though)  For any of the ones sporting an actual HDD inside of them... GET AN iPod.  There simply is nothing up to that level of quality.  Period.  Not MS, not creative, not samsung, NOT A SINGLE ONE.  What was wrong with most of the iPods that came back?  Idiots couldnt figure out how to hard reset them when they disconnected the ipod without ejecting (in itunes).  (which a windows update and itunes update that came out six months ago fixed)

I have little experience with the Zune (other than the terrible 1st gen) so I dont know if the newer ones are better.
I didnt want an iPod, but I considered all of my options, and considered what I had to choose from, and what I knew, and in the end, it still made more sense to spend a couple extra bucks getting an ipod and a hardshell case.

About iRiver:  While working retail, the solid state irivers seemed to be quite good, but the HDD ones I was kinda meh on, but I have no experience with their new gen of stuff

@ Spineless:  Supporting Lossless media files?  Like what?  Raw video?  Raw 44.1khz audio?  So you want like, 10 uncompressed CDs on an 80gig ipod?  maybe 10 minutes of raw video?  There is no such thing as lossless.  Digital is lossy by its very functionality.  you want what?  ogg support?  Pick your battles, your argument is weak against the entire concept of a "MP3 PLAYER"

[est]

All that text and you didn't even address my issue of iPods having shitty bass response.  I am disappointed!

I have played with all of the EQ settings on my nano.  The bass boost EQ setting distorts everything and every other setting is pretty shit.  Maybe I am expecting too much from a nano?  I am not sure.  Perhaps full iPods have better sound quality?  Again, not sure!