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Author Topic: Where to start?  (Read 70966 times)

pilsner

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #150 on: 17 Feb 2010, 17:28 »

Fuck Bach.  His decision to abandon his obligations as organist of St. Boniface's Church in Arnstadt just so he could work with master organist Dieterich Buxtehude in Lübeck was selfish and unprofessional.  He set the mold for greedy self-important musicians.  Every time I hear one of his fugues I vomit in my mouth.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #151 on: 17 Feb 2010, 17:40 »

So I've recently discovered the divine shriekings of Diamanda Galas, and I'd like to try to get into her, but well, the title of this thread. Anybody know enough to help?

her most accessible album is the sporting life, so start with that. if that doesn't give you a headache, i will recommend others.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #152 on: 17 Feb 2010, 17:52 »

Everyone else, please shut the fuck up, although if you want to continue discussing the history of the Butthole Surfers by all means start a thread about that.

A discussion about an important legal precedent which has potentially massive implications across the independent music scene is highly topical for this of all forums. If you really want to be involved, move the discussion to a new thread since you are quite capable of doing so. Otherwise, practise setting an example of being an "adult" by utilising your scroll wheel like everybody else.

Tommy and Tricia, I respect both of you to varying extents but I'm getting sick of you both ripping into each other all the time. This is a big forum and obviously we can't all be friends but we should at least be adult enough to stop baiting each other.

I'll happily discuss anything involving music in a civil manner just as I have been doing for going on seven years here but I'm sorry to say I've reached my limit of tolerating posts like this one, which contribute nothing except to place us in a situation like we find ourselves in here. I know it's still considered perfectly acceptable to throw shit at me, I'm thoroughly used to being able to rely on absolutely nothing in the way of support from inconsistent, arbitrarily appointed moderators. However, given over half a decade of knowing this, I'm afraid I will be defending myself in any manner I see fit, now and always.

It's this simple for you and him - be civil and I'll be the nicest person you are likely to meet. I'll chat about anything, dawn to dusk. Alas, even I have limits and the practice of people testing them for funsies has grown way, way old.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #153 on: 17 Feb 2010, 18:22 »

Tommy I'd happily use my scroll wheel but I received a specific request via PM to step in and do something about this thread. As I'm sure you've noticed I prefer to be a hands-off moderator as much as possible, and I've always felt that when it comes to threads such as this which have gone violently off-topic, suggesting that discussions be taken elsewhere is a much more effective and reasonable approach than deleting and relocating posts myself unilaterally and without consultation. The content of the recent discussion in this thread has, in fact, been much more fascinating than the thread's original topic (even if the manner in which that discussion has been conducted has left something to be desired), but I'm sure you can appreciate the difference between "relevant to the thread" and "relevant to the forum".

If you feel that you are not supported by myself and the other moderators then I apologise for that; the only explanation I can offer is that you seem to have the support of such a great swathe of this forum's population that, to a newcomer or relative outsider here, the odds would already seem heavily stacked in your favour. If you look again at my address to you and tricia kidd you'll see that neither of you is treated more sympathetically than the other, so in this particular instance I don't think you can reasonably justify a relative lack of support. I will not ever act more or less favourably to somebody based solely on the length of time he or she has been active in this forum.
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scarred

Re: Where to start?
« Reply #154 on: 17 Feb 2010, 19:04 »

this thread is so funny
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tommydski

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #155 on: 17 Feb 2010, 19:05 »

Tommy I'd happily use my scroll wheel but I received a specific request via PM to step in and do something about this thread. As I'm sure you've noticed I prefer to be a hands-off moderator as much as possible, and I've always felt that when it comes to threads such as this which have gone violently off-topic, suggesting that discussions be taken elsewhere is a much more effective and reasonable approach than deleting and relocating posts myself unilaterally and without consultation.

In this instance relocating the posts was the better decision rather than extinguishing a reasonable conversation which was being sabotaged by the posts of one person. I know it's the morning for you but there's nothing thoughtful about the phrase "shut the fuck up". Move the discussion, that's far less offensive than telling someone to "shut the fuck up". Give it some thought first or resume your status as a "hands off moderator".

If you feel that you are not supported by myself and the other moderators then I apologise for that; the only explanation I can offer is that you seem to have the support of such a great swathe of this forum's population that, to a newcomer or relative outsider here, the odds would already seem heavily stacked in your favour.

All well and good for you but as per usual, the moderators are "hands off" until I finally get tired of people being snide and ask them to amend their behaviour. Then suddenly the "hands off" moderators show an interest. I would say it's surprising but it ceased to be years ago. I could post ten names right now of people who have tried to make it their business to be as rude and irritating towards me as humanly possible without so much as a word of objection from the "hands off" moderators. Half of them were moderators themselves while it was happening, all but maybe one ended up being good friends with me years down the line. If I didn't know how to handle it, I wouldn't be here right now. Thus, as much as I appreciate you're trying to help, you're not.

If you look again at my address to you and tricia kidd you'll see that neither of you is treated more sympathetically than the other, so in this particular instance I don't think you can reasonably justify a relative lack of support. I will not ever act more or less favourably to somebody based solely on the length of time he or she has been active in this forum.

However, this shouldn't preclude you from isolating who made the conversation antagonistic and then asking them to avoid doing it in the future, if indeed you feel the need to involve yourself for whatever reason. There's a chronology to this and other discussions, it's not difficult to see the point it turned sour. Given the fact that as in the past I'm not going to attack people unless there's persistent, pointed provocation, it's incredibly easy to stay on my good side. However, there's a limit to my patience and since I know I'm never going to get any support from the moderators, it's up to me to deal with it in the manner I deem to be appropriate given the individual situation.

Given the complexity of what is almost certainly a previously banned individual making sporadic posts on the forum through a sibling's account, then I'm afraid that yes, I'd expect to be favoured if the other person is blatantly trolling and I'm trying to have a civil discussion on a subject which is valid, if very off topic. On the day that I start trolling and/or telling people to "shut the fuck up", by all means call me out on it as quickly as you would (in theory) tell someone with one post to do so. I understand that stance completely but that's not what was happening here and if any moderation was required at all, the best course of action would have been to split the thread off and remonstrate the person who is still persistently being an arse through another person's account.
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pilsner

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #156 on: 17 Feb 2010, 19:28 »

Tommy, I'm not sure whether my opinion is worth anything to you but on the off chance that I command some sort of elder statesman respectability by being one of the older posters, I'd like to suggest that you take a little posting break and come back to this thread in a few hours with perhaps a different perspective.  As far as I can see, Harry has handled this completely reasonably, the discussion while fascinating has nothing to do with the thread topic, and you are allowing yourself to be trolled.  I have started a separate thread to pursue the article that you posted here, not least because I find the topic pretty interesting myself.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #157 on: 17 Feb 2010, 19:33 »

Upon reflection I do regret the phrasing of my original post; in my defence let me say that this was literally the first thing that confronted me when I turned my computer on this morning, having only woken up about half an hour previously.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #158 on: 17 Feb 2010, 19:34 »

Is there any way that we could settle this with baby-oil bikini wrestling? I understand that not everyone (no one?) argument in this conversation is a girl, but I could be bi/gay for this.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #159 on: 17 Feb 2010, 19:35 »

and you are allowing yourself to be trolled.

That's exactly my point. I don't expect to be remonstrated for it or indeed, be told to "shut the fuck up".

Beyond that I have no issue until people go out of their way to make one, same as always.
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pilsner

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #160 on: 17 Feb 2010, 19:38 »

But people tell me to shut the fuck up all the time and they say it with love.

At least I thought... wait... oh... I have to go...
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De_El

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #161 on: 18 Feb 2010, 00:18 »

holy hell what happened to this thread

all i wanted to know was how to get into weird music

god

thanks anna

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #162 on: 18 Feb 2010, 08:21 »

god, i wish there was a separate thread for the "some labels don't pay their bands so good" debate.
(oh wait)

okay i'm done pretending to be a mod now.
here is a great diamanda galas song for you, alex: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jjCnKvA4IE
<3
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #163 on: 18 Feb 2010, 08:39 »

So, how 'bout that Colour Haze?  I've technically already started (with their self-titled album), but I am wondering where to go next.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #164 on: 18 Feb 2010, 10:44 »

Paging Onewheelwizard and/or dimmukane to this thread...

I'm not super knowledgeable on Colour Haze save for I know I'd like them if I put the time into listening to more of their stuff. At the very least, Los Sounds de Krauts is excellent and really easy to get into, especially if you're into their oeuvre already.

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #165 on: 18 Feb 2010, 13:10 »

Talking Heads (though I guess Emilio sort of said Remain In Light?)

You have to get the first four albums in order because there's a massive difference between each one which would be hard to accept if you ignore chronology.

The live album The Name of This Band is Talking Heads wouldn't be a bad start actually.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #166 on: 18 Feb 2010, 13:47 »

What da ya want outta yr Tom Waits? He's got kind of a lot of records. Before Small Change his voice sounds like a totally different animal than around, say Swordfishtrombones, and by Bone Machine he sounds totally raspy and ragged, but his voice is still big.  The early stuff is all like, piano and strings Americana, occsionally bluesy and jazzy. Blue Valentine amps up the jazz quotient and Heartattack and Vine is a straight up blues record.

Small Change would be an interesting place to start because it's something of a transitional record. You can use it to decide whether you want to explore his earlier, less accomplished records, or move forward chronologically as he explores new sonic territory. I do like his early records: Closing Time, The Heart of Saturday Night and Nighthawks at the Diner. But they're definitely less essential documents of his career. You may only want to listen to them after you've already decided you really like Tom Waits.

Swordfishtrombones and his other, stylistically related mid-period records Rain Dogs and Frank's Wild Years, depart somewhat from his earlier style by approaching songwriting in a less rigid manner. The instrumentation branches out a lot too; he introduces more interesting drums, marimbas, glockenspiel, organs, harmonicas; w wider variety of horns, etc. All of the three records from this period are excellent. If you're going to start with this period of his music, you ought start with Swordfishtrombones and go through them in order.

Bone Machine is where he starts to get weird.  His style varies more from album to album after that, so they stand alone more than his earlier albums, which form a clearer progression. For my money, the highlights from this period are Bone Machine and Mule Variations. The rest are all pretty good too, but they're not as close to my heart as those two.

So, tl;dr I'd say start with Swordfishtrombones or Small Change, just know that the two options will lead you to pretty significantly different paths.
Oh and fyi Frank's Wild Years is the one with the theme song from The Wire on it. Hope that helps!

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #167 on: 18 Feb 2010, 13:52 »

Blues Music In General (not a band)

Did you download that Rory Gallagher album I posted a couple days ago on the mediafire thread?  Excellent and easy place to start before you start getting into the really hard-core, early stuff.  I'm also a huge fan of Lightnin' Hopkins, (Texas style) and Howlin' Wolf (Chicago style).   Listen to those three guys and you'll have a nice broadstroke introduction to guitar based blues.


Tom Waits

Raindogs is probably my favorite, and then start going backwards chronologically from there for awhile.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #168 on: 18 Feb 2010, 14:12 »

i won't dispute anything De_El said, but personally i would start with Bone Machine, because it is simultaneously his most accessible album and his strangest.  it has the most wide range of sounds and is by quite a large margin the one i listen to the most.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #169 on: 18 Feb 2010, 14:14 »

I started with Raindogs and never looked back.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #170 on: 18 Feb 2010, 15:07 »

You have to get the first four albums in order because there's a massive difference between each one which would be hard to accept if you ignore chronology.

The live album The Name of This Band is Talking Heads wouldn't be a bad start actually.

I don't know if the chronology is that important since the "essential discography" is relatively small. I listened to their first four albums in alternate pairs, I guess you could say. I found More Songs About Buildings and Food at a farmer's market then picked up Remain in Light from a used record store about a month later. Then I got Talking Heads: 77 after that. I never bought Fear of Music and maybe that is why I don't rate it as high as the other three, but it is still great.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #171 on: 18 Feb 2010, 16:24 »

Where do I start with Wire?
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #172 on: 18 Feb 2010, 17:15 »

At the beginning, with Pink Flag. The first three albums are absolutely stellar.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #173 on: 19 Feb 2010, 00:49 »

Soul Music In General (not a band)

Sam Cooke, for sure. The Portrait of a Legend 1951-1964 comp should suffice as a good introduction.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #174 on: 19 Feb 2010, 03:56 »

Where do I start with Wire?

Yeah, first three records in order and then feel free to stop there.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #175 on: 19 Feb 2010, 13:14 »

Yeah with Talking Heads start at the beginning. Remain in Light is in my opinion the best one but it is not exactly representative of their career, indeed the first four album are markedly different and they only really settled on a sound after Speaking iN Tongues, which is the last one you SHOULD get.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #176 on: 19 Feb 2010, 14:04 »

So, how 'bout that Colour Haze?  I've technically already started (with their self-titled album), but I am wondering where to go next.

Ewige Blumenkraft is the next one you should listen to, it's absolutely essential.  Los Sounds De Krauts is also pretty much too good to pass on under any circumstances.  After that, it kinda depends which direction you want to go in.  Listen to Tempel and All if you want to hear their more recent, more polished work.  Listen to CO2 and Seven to get a sense for the grittier, earlier sound.  If you want to see their trippiest side, listen to PeriscopeChopping Machine is not really that great but it's worth a listen if you like everything else so much that you just have to listen to everything they've put out (which is pretty likely, they're an absolutely superb band).
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #177 on: 21 Feb 2010, 19:32 »

So not so much "where to start" but "where to next": Elvis Costello.

I have the My Aim is True, This Year's Model, Armed Forces, Imperial Bedroom and  Secret, Profane and Sugarcane but I've basically no idea about the varying quality- and tone- of his discography through the 80s and 90s
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #178 on: 22 Feb 2010, 00:48 »

Blood & Chocolate is probably his third best record after the first two.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #179 on: 22 Feb 2010, 09:04 »

I actually quite like "Mighty Like A Rose"
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #180 on: 22 Feb 2010, 12:19 »

Blues Music In General (not a band)

Well hey look at that I can actually be of help in this thread.

Like any genre, blues has many different strands and aspects, and I guess it's all about finding what you like and don't like. I, for example, have never really been bothered by the 12-bar blues style and prefer the early delta records, open-stringed tuning stuff. So, for example I love these fellows:
Skip James
Bukka White
Reverend Gary Davis (song starts at about 2:10 and is the best thing you will ever see ever)
Blind Willie Johnson
I recently found out about Washington Phillips, who played this bizarre instrument that sounds like nothing I've ever heard and is brilliant.

Also many others such as Son House, Blind Willie McTell, Fred McDowell, Robert Johnson, Lonnie Johnson, Charley Patton, Elmore James etc etc. If you're not into that, you might be into stuff like Muddy Waters and the electric blues thing. Also check out Taj Mahal who is awesome pretty much whatever he does.
« Last Edit: 22 Feb 2010, 12:22 by nufan »
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tricia kidd

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #181 on: 22 Feb 2010, 12:55 »

honestly my favorite blues musician is Lightnin' Hopkins.  i can't recommend him enough.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #182 on: 22 Feb 2010, 13:22 »

I'm going to second Mississippi Fred McDowell.  Amazing stuff.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #183 on: 23 Feb 2010, 04:04 »

OK guys I know this isn't a specific band but something just clicked and as of an hour ago I'm really into new wave. I have Joy Division - Substance and Permanent, Tears for Fears - Songs from the Big Chair, and Echo & the Bunnymen -Heaven Up Here. What else do I need?
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #184 on: 23 Feb 2010, 04:57 »

OMD's first albums until Dazzle Ships. After that, you only get Sugar Tax from the same band and that's it.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #185 on: 23 Feb 2010, 07:17 »

OK guys I know this isn't a specific band but something just clicked and as of an hour ago I'm really into new wave. I have Joy Division - Substance and Permanent, Tears for Fears - Songs from the Big Chair, and Echo & the Bunnymen -Heaven Up Here. What else do I need?

That really depends on how you look at it.

If you want to change artists I can't really help you much

But if you want to expand your catalogues of those artists - from Echo And The Bunnymen you need Ocean Rain. I have no greater knowledge of their catalogue other than that is an awesome record. I do know Joy Division, though, and you need both of their studio albums, Unknown Pleasures and Closer. Luckily having those two compilations doesn't ruin the albums for. Substance in particular mops up a lot of the useful stuff from singles and EPs that's not on the albums.

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #186 on: 23 Feb 2010, 08:07 »

OK guys I know this isn't a specific band but something just clicked and as of an hour ago I'm really into new wave. I have Joy Division - Substance and Permanent, Tears for Fears - Songs from the Big Chair, and Echo & the Bunnymen -Heaven Up Here. What else do I need?

uhhh B-52s?
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #187 on: 23 Feb 2010, 13:45 »

OK guys I know this isn't a specific band but something just clicked and as of an hour ago I'm really into new wave. I have Joy Division - Substance and Permanent, Tears for Fears - Songs from the Big Chair, and Echo & the Bunnymen -Heaven Up Here. What else do I need?

The Chameleons
The Church
The Wedding Present
The Damned
That Petrol Emotion
The Smiths
A Certain Ratio
Wall of Voodoo's "demo" album
everything XTC recorded pre-1983

for starters.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #188 on: 23 Feb 2010, 14:52 »

I've never really been able to work out where the borders of new wave are, but I'm gonna suggest Blondie and Sparks, mainly because I can.
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tommydski

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #189 on: 23 Feb 2010, 15:05 »

The most criminally underrated post-punk/sorta new wave band is Comsat Angels.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #190 on: 23 Feb 2010, 15:53 »

are Devo new wave?

I'm not really sure what new wave is, but I am sure that Devo kicks ass.



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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #191 on: 23 Feb 2010, 16:35 »

Thanks guys, this list will keep me occupied for a while!

The Wedding Present
Seamonsters.

this is so good
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #192 on: 23 Feb 2010, 19:20 »

here are some underrated post-punk-type bands!

-delta 5
-esg
-scritti politti (that one is kinda borderline i guess. early = poppy post punk. cupid and psyche '85 = new wave-y stuff!)
-liquid liquid
-konk

okay i'm done, back over to tommy. 
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #193 on: 23 Feb 2010, 19:40 »

Blues Music In General (not a band)





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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #194 on: 26 Feb 2010, 06:48 »

I have a question about the Rolling Stones. It is not really so much "where to start" as "how do I navigate through their early years most efficiently"? Their early discography (1964-67 I guess) is a jumble of US and UK releases that I don't really want to wade through blindly. Does it even make much of a different which versions I get?

Also, is it worth it to grab a singles compilation or two?
« Last Edit: 26 Feb 2010, 06:52 by michaelicious »
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #195 on: 26 Feb 2010, 09:44 »

I find The Rolling Stones fascinating in many ways, not least of which because of the way they essentially perfected the now expected juxtaposition of primal, borderline Neanderthal, somewhat dangerous, rather idiotic attitude and genuine artistic intent born of cultural concrète and exhaustive musical appreciation. It's easy to take this for granted, especially considering the cavalcade of shite we've had to endure in their name and not least because since they long ago ceased to be compelling musical unit. Regardless, for better or worse they virtually invented what we now know of as Rock (not Rock'n'Roll, there's an important distinction here) and did so with a gusto which sees them still well regarded despite not producing a good album for over thirty years. Indeed, even their often cited rivals from Liverpool never produced a run of four flawless records back to back in as many years, which is indeed what the Stones managed between 1968 and 1972.

Personally I would just start with Beggar's Banquet and move forward until Exile on Main Street, which is sadly their last great record. The early records are interesting but show the signs and stress of being commercial documents never really intended as permanent artefacts. The weird thing is you probably know a lot of the songs without really knowing you know them, which will help when you actually hear the records. As strong as their singles were, it's a shame to miss out on those four perfect, world-beating records. If once you've completely exhausted the classic four, you can then move backwards to the UK releases of the first five albums. The US albums were all over the place, deliberately chopped and chewed to insert the singles (at the time, it would be considered unacceptable to place singles on albums in the UK, unlike in the US). The Brian Jones era has its moments but its largely covers, which the band themselves would tell you they never were able to entirely do justice to. Once the Richards/Jagger songwriting team found its feet in the late 60s, that was when the band really hit their stride as a musical force.

Avoid Their Satanic Majesties Request (the only truly bad album up to Exile...) and especially people who claim one particular record after 1972 is worth investigating. It's usually Some Girls. Don't bother.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #196 on: 27 Feb 2010, 20:00 »

Tommy where should I start with Silkworm?
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #197 on: 28 Feb 2010, 11:13 »

yo, i'm not tommy, but he told me to try libertine if i like rougher stuff, and italian platinum if i like it smooooooth, hurrr hurr.

i love libertine. i don't think i ever got into italian platinum.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #198 on: 28 Feb 2010, 11:55 »

Were should I start with Bob Dylan and others of the (electric) folk persuasion? I've been listening to On The Beach and the rest of Neil Young's Ditch trilogy and digging it immensely.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #199 on: 28 Feb 2010, 12:49 »

Tommy where should I start with Silkworm?

Well, the usual disclaimer. Silkworm is a lot like animal porn - It's not for everyone. On the one hand, they are definitely my favourite band and I genuinely consider them to be in the top ten North American rock bands ever. That's me though, I'm completely fucking clown shoes mental. If you hear them and don't understand the fuss, it probably wasn't meant to be. Don't feel bad about it because it's a niche band by definition.

However, if you do take the plunge I'd probably start where I started with the wonderful Libertine from 1994. On the one hand, this record is for the most part an absolute stone cold bummer but it is so unbelievably bitter-sweet that it emits a compelling poignancy. You might be thrown off by the starkness of the mix but on repeated listens it will reveal more of itself over time. It's the kind of record which is perfect for night-time journeys. It might sound a bit tense for daytime excursions so pick your moment.

Were should I start with Bob Dylan and others of the (electric) folk persuasion? I've been listening to On The Beach and the rest of Neil Young's Ditch trilogy and digging it immensely.

Neil is the man, there's no two ways about it. Don't forget Zuma and Everybody Knows This is Nowhere, they're up there with The Ditch Trilogy.

With regards to Bob, I recommend Bringing It All Back Home. One side electric, one side acoustic. Depending on which side you like more will tell you whether you'd sooner work backwards or forwards. Aside from Self-Portait (genuinely shite) all of his records up to and including Desire are ace.
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